JimmyDavidson

(Editted)
I have an L69, and want a good streetable/but also nice sounding(like the tinging sound of the older muscle cars) I plan on doing a whole engine rebuild. I need info on getting a proper cam(preferrably solid with decent duration and overlap to get the sound I want), heads, and other equipment to keep up with the cam.

I have 3.73 gears.

Reccomendations on carbs, intakes, headers, anything else you can think of.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

ok, well if you want that big of a cam, you need more converter! you gotta pay to play if you want the parts to work together.

~230*/240* duration at .050 with a 108-110lsa solid cam would get you the sound your after, but it's not really streetable for a daily driver.

84z28350

Also if you want to go with that big of a cam, head machining or maybe even replacement with aftermarket ones will be needed for valve guide clearance.


Like nova mw66 said, what your after is not going to be a good street cam as normal driving will mostly have RPM's well below the powerband.

88IROC350TPI

you really aren't grasping the reality of how stupid it'd be to do what you want to do. You want a car that sounds fast? build a motor that IS fast! Throwing a big cam into a stock ol' 305 will make it run horribly and most likely cause major engine damage. I have a friend with a SBC that needs to idle at 1200RPM.... it also runs 9's on motor and has a 5500RPM stall and 4.56's. Guess what he has to do everytime he takes it out for a cruise down the road? change the spark plugs!

If you're alright with having a car that: cant even beat a Chevette in a race, runs like total crap, has no brakes, gets 4mpg, and might not even make it out of the driveway before self destructing all because you want a rough idle then have fun. Put in the same cam that I'm running, Comp's Nitrous HP 274. Its 230/244 @ 050, .487/.501 lift, 113LSA. I can't wait to see your results. However, if you want to think logically and put together a motor that performs, rethink your goals.

rik89gta

sounds like u need a brain to go along with that cam.

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

sorry you are getting flamed but this sorta request is basically the same as putting an aeroscoop in a stock car or even a V6.
The cam is the brain of the engine.... you mess with the brain and all the other functions change... its really going to suck when you have no brakes.... takes 2000 rpms to go 5 mph... and so on...
You can still have a nice sounding cam that is more suited for street...

Neil87Z28

If it were me, I'd add a little compression (10:1 - 10.5:1), put aluminum heads on it (maybe the Edelbrock Performer's with 1.94 intake valve), and use something like the Comp XS262S. It has 262/268 duration on a 110LS. You could have it custom ground on a 108 or maybe even a 106 LS to roughen up the idle. It would probably idle around 700 rpm in gear with a slight, but noticeable lope.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

not on a 106lsa. it would require a much higher idle rpm...

JimmyDavidson

Hmm, I dont really know much about cams. Like I said I want a "tinging" kinda cam like the older muscle cars. I really dont know what to ask, considering I dont know anything about them. Let's forget about what I said with the 1200 rpm idle and instead of flaming me, teach me what I need to know about cams. I really like the "rumpity" idle, that's noticeable, but I guess I need a more steetable cam. Could you tell me what I could get to get me as close to this sound as possible but still have a streetable car?(possibly one that you can hear clearly from the front of the car? Like I said I dont know much so dont flame) Maybe some examples of cars with a cam that is streetable but close to what I want?

Oh and an example I found in exhaust, Zephers TA, sounded nice but it didnt have the tinging I wanted. If that helps, any at all.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

all you want is sound? do you want the car to be fast at all?

fawien

Without new heads or reworking your original heads to flow better getting a big cam is not going to help at all. If your going with bone stock heads look at cams that are for lightly modified engines. Edelbrock has some nice slight upgrades from stock. Most cam makers will have cams considered stock replacement level and slightly above stock level to.

You could also call around and see what places are going to charge you to get your stock heads a little more flow or just pick up a set of assembled heads brand new at between 300-500 a piece for a slight upgrade in flow.

JimmyDavidson

I'm probably get flamed for this but, I'm not going to be racing my car, but then again I dont want it to run like total crap. I'm mainly looking for the sound, yes, but that doesn't mean that I don't want my car to be fast. I know I'm probably the only person in world like that. If I had to choose bite or bark I would choose bark. OK I looked up a cam, and it said minimum rpm- 1800 and maximum rpm-5600 what exactly does minimum rpm mean?

fawien-yeah, I'm rebuilding the whole thing, boring out, adding parts, etc. Will probably get new heads though.

fawien

generaly and someone may correct me thats the rpm range its designed to work in. In general without alot of changes to the motor your gonna want something that runs in the rpm range your motor can run. A stock 305 i believe has a 5500 rpm max. Idle to 5500 rpm cams are stock to slightly better than stock for the most part. A 1500-5500 may have a rougher idle and want more upgrades to the engine to get good results.
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If your going for new heads then you really wanna try to match up the cam to what the heads can handle. Any good retailer like jegs or summit should be of some assistance with your purchase if not pick the cam company you like and contact them for suggestions on what would be good for your head.

11 Flat

Erson 214/222 106 CL 106 LSA .330 lobe lift

Port the stock heads install 1.94 intake valves, 1.6 roller rockers, springs to match cam

ZZ4 intake drop the plenum divider down an inch

1 5/8 Headers, 3 inch y pipe, 3 inch high flow converter, 3 inch all the way back to magnaflow muffler

Shift kit and 2800 stall, 3.73 gears

Go over to the carb board and read up on the q-jet.. how to tune it...etc

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Yea, you can port those stock 416 heads, and use a mid 230's duration cam. It'd take a bit of tweaking to get it running right, but that'd do what you want. A solid cam will give you a nice ticking sound at idle. A little smaller than nova's.

and a larger convertor, with more gear, but that's just to make it fast as well.

I wouldn't bother porting a 305, but that's a whole new piece of pie there.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

good luck finding a smaller cam than mine though...it's the smallest solid cam i could find!

JimmyDavidson

Thanks for the info guys.

Matt, Thats nice to hear.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I was thinking 3rd one down, much like the compxe268, but solid, which is a nice cam in a 305, a little larger than most prefer, but it's your $$$.


Or third one up, if you want a swapped firing order. Probably more $$

JimmyDavidson

Thanks Sonix, I found a few small cams that I am looking at.

Here's another good example:
http://www.bescaredracing.com/iroc/movies/idle.wmv
Anyone know the specs on a cam like this? I'm just curious as to what it is. It's Trax's 1990 Iroc

Guest

In the 242/248 .550 range.
I'd take the advice listed above, dont do it... not unless you plan on changing much more than the cam.

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/s...agga/nagga.mp3

Crane's 278h grind in a 350. Expect the 305 to idle differently of course.

JimmyDavidson

What makes that clicking(instead of the nice ting it has a irritating click) sound in that clip? That's one of the things I'm trying to get away from.

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

That clicking sound you're referring to is lope caused by duration. Are you sure you're remembering the musclecar sound correctly? Most guys back in the day loved that lumpity lump sound. Check into Iskedarian or Isky cams for actual musclecar cams. You'll probably have better luck there, but don't expect a major increase in power since todays cams are far more powerful than the cams of yesteryear.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

that car also sounded like it had open headers.

84z28350

Ive got the comp cams XE268 and it has a bit of a noticable idle. Nothing really crazy but it does sound a whole lot better over a stocker. though this is on a 350 with 10.8:1 static comp and worked heads, long tube headers and glasspacks so im sure it would sound a pretty weeny with a full exhaust.

JimmyDavidson

Iroc, I'm sure it sounds better hearing it in person, but that clip doesn't do it any good. I don't know what makes your car sound different, perhaps the exhaust? or open headers? or where you had the camara situated? but I'm trying to get the tinging idle, more like the second clip I posted of Trax's Iroc.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

here is my suggestion. i say you rebuild the motor back to stock specs but instead of putting in a stock replacement cam, put in an XE268H and the matching springs (comp p/n 981-16) and do a mild bowl blend on the stock heads before putting it all back together, also a good set of roller rockers. then, put on a nice set of hedman longtubes and put dual 2.5" pipes on it with an x-pipe. this cam has 224*/230* duration @ .050 with .477/.480 lift. it's on a 110* lobe seperation so it'll have a relatively rough idle but will have great street manners and you'll still have a good solid 750rpm idle and enough vacuum to keep your power brakes. with a 2400stall converter and 3.73's, this thing would run like a scalded dog (well, atleast into the mid 13 second range) and it would give you the sound your after (i think). this combo will work well together.

you need to have your machine shop make sure the valve guides have enough clearance for the lift on that cam cause the stock heads are normally only good to .450"-.480" range...just make sure it's good to .500" or more.

now as far as carburetion to feed this little monster, you'll need to put a bit better intake manifold on it. i believe that with a little work, you can get the factory CCC Q-Jet and Dizzy to work ontop, though you'll have to ask some folks like Sonix and five7kid about that one...i'm a holley guy, but it may help driveability to keep the q-jet and ccc dizzy.

if you really want to get the maximum sound out of it while remaining streetable, maybe use an .015" compressed thickness steel shim head gasket, this will bump the c/r (assuming your sticking with the stock style piston and the 416 heads) to roughly 10.3:1

*i keep thinking of more things to say*: the combo i listed should pull to 5800rpms without issues. i'd say shift somewhere around 5500rpms.

84z28350

Im totally with mw66nova.

What he described is pretty much exactly my new motor.

Im running 416 heads that have very light work, i didnt have to do anything with the valve guides but you should check yours as the tolerances on these things are huge!


That cam pulls good vac even at 600RPM (i pull around 18in) which is excellent if your running powerbrakes and all the goodies.


At the moment i am yet to recieve my tuning parts for the carb and its running pretty lean but it pulls real hard down low! Top end is lacking major but i think its just way too lean.

Im sure with a higher stall TC and proper tuning it could get pretty snakey on ya if you wanted!

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

holy cow, for real 84z??? I've got the slightly larger cam, same heads, but more work, and have a very hard time pulling 12" of vacuum.... Of course, even stock it pulled less vacuum than most, maybe it's the altitude...

JimmyDavidson

Ok, sounds like a pretty good set up, thanks Matt.

What about an Edelbrock Hi-rise? Would that be good to put on?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

yes and no...it depends on what exactly your talking about. it sounds like someone who grew up around mag wheels, hi-jackers, and glass packs is giving you ideas. the "hi-rise" single plane intakes of old are way outdated by the newer dual plane intake manifolds...however, the newer manifolds are still taller than stock so in a sense they are a "hi-rise" just not what is normally referred to as a "hi-rise" (ie torker, torker II and the like...these things just plain out suck!)

a good intake manifold for this engine would be either an edlebrock performer rpm or the holley street dominator intake p/n 300-36(my personal preference). if you stick with the q-jet, you'll have to run an adapter. by the looks of your avatar, you're planning on running a cowl hood so the height of the intake/adapter should be no problem, though if you're wanting to stick it under the stock intake, going with a shorter intake or run a holley with a drop base open element air filter assembly.

JimmyDavidson

Ok, I got that idea a while back, and was remember about it now, thought I'd learn a little about that while I'm at it.

Yeah, I'm going with the cowl hood, I posted a topic a while back, with a few lame ideas though.

Thanks