Brandon Crawfor

so i gotta know, what all does it entail? what do i have to mess with and what is a good idea to replace? gaskets are a given, and i have those, but is there nething else fairly cheap i should/ could replace
i wanna know cuz im gonna be replacing gaskets as soon as my hand heals and these are the most complicated ones as far as i understand, and ill be doing it myself
ive taught myself everything and done everything myself on the first go so far, i see know reason to stop now
thanks in advance guys

Apeiron

The short answer would be drail the coolant, remove everything that's attached to the heads in any way, and then remove the heads. In the long answer though, you'll find that there's a lot of stuff attached to the heads that has to come off.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

how do you drain the coolant from the block? ie, besides the rad petcock?

Apeiron

Remove the drain plugs in the block.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

the freeze plugs? those are a huge PITA to remove... or is there a threaded one?

Apeiron

Two of them. One on each side of the block in the center right above the oil pan rails. For convenience, you can replace the pipe plugs with petcocks so you can drain the block even more easily.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

hmm, a search to find what size to use yielded quite a few threads of you mentioning that . 1/4"NPT.
Do I need 2 ? I figured they're connected so if I drain one i'm set..

Apeiron

The coolant passages in the block aren't connected internally.

84L69TA

It would be a good idea to install new valve seals while the heads are off. These cars are known for a little puff of smoke at startup when the miles get a little high.

Apeiron

Changing the valve seals is a good idea whether the heads are on or off.

Brandon Crawfor

Okay got a couple questions: where can i get the valve seals replaced, or is that something i can do myself?
and when im puttin the distributo back in is there a certain way i should do it or do i just need to make sure the cap is on right and all the plug wires running to the right cylinder?

Apeiron

You can do the valve seals yourself.

The distributor should go back in the same way it came out, with all the plug wires running to the right cylinder, and the timing set.

rwdtech

TORQUE WRENCH



make sure u have one

Comp788

Well there is alot more to it then just pulling parts off and installing them as you put it back together.

I am not saying that a beginner can't do it but go get a chiltons book or some other books and read up on it some first. Besides draining the coolant. There is lots more to do. I have seen cars towed into the shop with spum bearings due to people not chainging the oil after such a task. They started it up and drove it with water in the oil and ended up spinning a rod bearing.

If the heads are off you should be looking at all of the valves and checking to see if any are "burnt" or the valves are sunk into the heads. Do they have any obvious cracks? Are you pulling the heads off just because or is there something wrong that making you pull the heads off? When the heads are off they tell quite a bit about how the engine is running. Look at everything close.

When you take it apart keep everything in order. It makes putting it back together for a beginner much easier. Like for the intake and exhaust bolts take a box and use a screw driver to poke a bunch of holes in it. Take a marker and make it front. Place the bolts in order as they come out and the box will hold them in place for reassembly.

Look at the rocker arm, push rods, as you pull it all apart. Lift each lifter up one at a time and look at the bottom. They need to be flat. They also need to go back on the same lifter hole that they came from to ride on the camshaft. If they are hyd rollers it is not as important.

When putting the engine back together everything needs to be clean. be sure that they is no old parts of gaskets on the heads, the deck of the block, or the intake manifold. Pick up any parts of gaskets in the lifter valley from cleaning everything. Clean all of the bolts are be sure to put some thread sealer on the head bolts that go into the block as they go into water passages. Be sure to torque the head bolts and intake bolts. The head bolts are the most important and have to be torqued in their proper order.

Be sure to adjust the lifters in the proper order and adjust them correctly!!

Also be sure to mark the distributor and put it back in the same way it came out. More experianced people just bring up the motor to TDC and drop it in. Then set the timing and fire it up and do a final timing adjustment.

Be sure to set the timing on the engine once you get it running and obviously check for fuel leaks as soon as the engine fires up. I don't think anone here wants to heard about a car catching on fire.

If you need any additional information feel free to IM me or send me an email. I'll behappy to help anyone out who want to learn or doesn't know...

Brett

Brandon Crawfor

TDC="top dead center"
and thats when the number one piston is at the top of its stroke right?
just making sure

rgarcia63

TDC="top dead center", and for timing, "at the top of its compression stroke"

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

and in this case, TDC on #1 refers to TDC FIRING, not the exhaust stroke. That is, if you want to line up the dist...

Brandon Crawfor

how do i know/tell the difference between the exhaust and firing strokes?
thanks in advance

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

when you're rotating the engine over by hand, put your finger in the #1 spark plug hole, you'll feel a puff of air on the #1 firing, since the valves will be closed. On the exhaust stroke the exhaust valve is open, so the air will just go out the valve, and you won't feel the puff of air.

Brandon Crawfor

Well heres what ive gotten done workin on it here and there since monday when i got my cast off:
Carb cleaned sittin on a cinder block:

Engine stripped down:



Old manifold and heads im gettin rid of:

She looks so empty..

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

what new heads and manifold are you using?

Brandon Crawfor

Im getting an Edelbrock Performer manifold from my friend and the heads from him
i think theyre 416s, but sometimes hes retarded so im only going by what he tells me
ill know more when i pick them up
prolly tomorrow

Brandon Crawfor

So
i cant get the oil dipstick tube out of the block to save my f*ckin life
see ive got a new one
and the old one is bent and its hard to get in and out to check the oil with the dipstick
so i figured it just pulls out right?
but i still cant get it
might be goin to pick up those parts from my friend in a little bit...

F-BIRD'88

That old manifold you 're planniong on ditching is a cast iron version of the 70's era Z28-Lt1 high rise intake. its a marine manifold. Its a better manifold than a performer even thou its heavyier. I'd keep it.

F-BIRD'88

I'd really keep that intake. its a goody.

To remove the old dipstick tube cut the top off some. Then fit a drill bit in the end of the tube. Now yu can grip the tube with vise grips tightly without crushing the tube. Twist and pull it out. Heat from a torch (propane/oxy-acetalyne) will help.

Brandon Crawfor

allright ill try that tommorow
btw
how long should it take for a machine shop to check for cracks and clean a pair of heads?
just wonderin
as id like to get my car back together by friday

Brandon Crawfor

im keepin it
but i dont think ill be putting it back on this engine
its too tall and because of that i only have enough room to put and air filter thats like an inch thick in the air cleaner...
but ill keep it all the same

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

if you are getting the shop to tear the heads down, hot tank, mag, and reassemble for you, realistically it takes about 2hrs total to do, but if they're backed up (I doubt it, not really the busy season), might take a week.

Brandon Crawfor

Well i should be getting my heads done tommorow while im in school, and ill probably have it all together tommorow night after i get off work
but
i have a question
how do you set the timing after the car is running?
and what should the timing be (if thats the right question)

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

That question gets asked freakily often.
Do a search on "new motor won't start" or something like that. Billybob is having that problem right now, should be able to find his thread by just scrolling a bit.

and yea, set it up for ~15* base. Once you get it running, do whatever you have to do to keep it running, then reset it while it's running, make sure it's around 15* or so. Then you should be able to take your foot off the gas and it should idle, then reset timing to... say 10*, reset idle speed, etc. Drive it around and play with the settings until you have it where you want it.

F-BIRD'88

requires a drop base air cleaner. Search my posts.

Brandon Crawfor

tried the drill bit-in-the-tube-with-the-vicegrips method, and i STILL cant get the tube out!!
WTF?!

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

did you unbolt the dipstick from the manifold bolt that it connects to? assuming this dipstick has that support bracket on it.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

bolted in?
huh, never seen that...

mine was press fit. I think mine came out pretty easily. Took some work to put the new one in...
I forget what size the ID of the tube is, but would it be possible to tap it, and use a bolt maybe? Got a propane torch? Try to heat the area around where the tube goes in the block. Then have the vice grips on it again and reef on it!

You can drop the new one in the freezer for 1/2hr to make it easier to slide in. Then try putting a 1/2" or whatever box end wrench over the tube, down to the flare, then hammer on the wrench.

Brandon Crawfor

im pretty sure mine is press fit in,
but mebbe not
neway i was thinkin about takin off the oil pan to replace that gasket as well while im at it, mebbe i could get at it from the other end? is that possible?
if not ill just keep tryin to tear it out
neway took my 624s to the shop today and they were cracked all to hell
so im takin my "new" 991s to the shop tomorrow to get them checked n whatnot
if these are cracked to ill be pissed

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

haha, look at that, they lived up to their reputation!
hope you're not paying much for the check....

if the 991's are cracked, snag some 416's from the JY. They're super common, and will go for a song.

Remember, to get your oil pan off you'll have to jack up the motor. and no, you can't get it from there I don't think, it's only press fit 1/2" deep into the top of the block unfortunately.

i'd recommend using the drill bit and maybe better vice grips or something... Just keep reefing on it, it should come out...

Brandon Crawfor

didnt pay any thing to have the first ones checked, they more or less knew they were cracked when i brought em in, but they checked em neway free of charge

slowfast

How much would It cost for a machine shop to, clean up heads, install new valves, do springs for a different cam,

then how much for mild porting..

I have a lg4 stock heads.. what do you recomend getting done?

sorry for high jack

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I paid $300 for the "package".

hot tank
magnaflux
bead blast
mill for flatness
bronze guides
install springs, including balancing them
probably something else too.

paid an extra $80 to cut 1.94" seats.
paid $8/valve, for the exhaust valves I needed.
$80 for positive valves seals (that was a ripoff, but anyway)

porting is something you don't pay for. Not on 416 heads, that's for sure. The gains aren't worth it. Do it yourself.

Brandon Crawfor

well
the 991 heads arent cracked
but theyre gettin taken care of, and ill have em back by tomorrow,
and throw it all together and fire it up
question about timin, what do you do to adjust it? something on the distributor or...? never done it before
thanks
oh and that stupid tube still wont come out

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

just loosen the dist hold down bolt to adjust the timing.
.
.
But if you didn't know that, I have a funny feeling you're going to have a hell of a time getting it running again, unfortunately.

Brandon Crawfor

praps
but whose to say
i dont usually dive right into stuff, i ask alota questions and get to know wtf im doin first
it usually works

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

well yea, good idea, i'm just saying, the part about getting your motor to run again after removing the dist, and moving the engine over - is usually the most troublesome part.
Speaking from experience.

my3rdgen

I don't know where you are at with this project.

When I rebuilt my 350, I didn't shave the deck or the heads as they didn't need it. However, I used a blue fel-pro head gasket that was around .040 thick. This was much thicker than the factory .015 shim. This slightly lowers the comp ratio but from what I have been told the more devistating effect is to the quench.

Now I wish that I had my 350 decked but its too late for that now. So when I pull the heads in a year or two I will try to use a factory shim when I re-assemble.

If you have not re-assembled yet, look into this topic. I wish I knew more about it but I don't.

Brandon Crawfor

UPDATE
got that stupid tube outta the block for one
second, the heads from my friend were cracked so i got some remanned 882s
third, i got her all back together, and started her up
she starts immediatley, better than she did before i did all this
but i see some smoke, and it appears to be coming from around the headers, and i know that the on left header i dont have it tight to the rest of the exhaust, which is why its so damn loud
so would neone have an idea about why all the smoke?

Brandon Crawfor

nevermind, i got rid of the smoke
took her out, she stuttered alot and couldnt get up there (speed wise)
so i retarded the timing
now under acceleration she knocks,
so i advanced the timing just a little
but
i figure ill prolly take it somewhere so i can have the ignition timing set professionally, cuz i dont think i should mess with it too much
but you guys were alot help, thanks

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

you'll pay someone at least $30 to set the timing, or you can buy the light for $30 and do it yourself from now on.
If you've got the car running (good job!!!), then it's a breeze from here on in.

Hook up the timing light with the car running, it'll clamp onto the positive and negative on the battery, then clamp over the #1 plug, and it'll flicker like a strobe light. Just point it at the balancer and read what it says. With the car warmed up and idling, shoot for 8* or so. Try that. But yea, I wouldn't let someone else set the timing on your car, when you've re&re'd the heads yourself. That's like building a race car and trusting someone else to change your oil or fill up your tires...

Brandon Crawfor

so
theres an really annoying knock that its got now,
it had it before but now its louder,
and im not really sure what would cause it...
suggestions?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

rod knock?

a "knock" is what people usually say to describe a deep low "knock" sound. That's usually bottom end of motor, and quite expensive.
A "tick" is the sound of something metal, and lighter, hitting something else - usually top end, and sometimes cheaper.

Use a mechanics stethoscope, or just bring the car to a mechanic, they should be able to tell you what it is. A rod knock is pretty easy to diagnose.

Brandon Crawfor

if it were a rod knock would i just have to replace the rod(s)?
and if it was a bottom end knock what would it be that was knocking?