gapimpin

i have seen a lot of post with ppl saying that it wont work but not one actually tried it... per car craft they will drop on and with no machining required and a direct quote from the article states
"These springs also increase the amount of available valve lift from 0.450 to 0.550 inch.The spring can accommodate as much as 0.665-inch lift, but when installed at 1.800-inch height, the retainer-to-seal clearance limits lift to slightly more than 0.550 inch."
all the posts i have found on the board say the spring will handle the lift but the guide will still have to be ground down. according to the quote in the article that is not the case and they havent retracted the article so im guessing no one has called angry that that they mushroomed thier valve guides.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...pring_upgrade/

i dont have a micrometer so i was trying to find out what size shims ppl are using to get the 1.8 installed height

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I trust Car Craft, or about any other magazine, for their pronouncements on engine building, about as far as I can pick up and throw my house. All they're good for in that area, is a guide to stimulate thinking. Not as some kind of infallible divine declaration of fact.

Whatever they say, I'll believe it when I see it.

Now, given that the Vortec valve guide is SO TALL that the retainers hit the top of the guides at .460" - .480" of lift when using stock length valves, I fail to see how the design of the spring is going to suddenly shrink the valve guide. Keeping in mind, 1.800" installed height is not possible with STOCK valves and keepers; unless you know where to go to buy shims that TAKE THICKNESS OUT, instead of PUTTING THICKNESS IN. You used to could get them at the same store that had the drill bits that drill square holes and the offset bolts that let you put late-model starters on old blocks without the late-model starter bolt holes when you use a 12.8" flywheel; but I think that store has closed now. Somehow you gotta get about .100" MORE CLEARANCE between the retainer and the spring pocket, and it HAS TO COME FROM raising the retainer in order to clear the guide boss. Which means, NO, you CANNOT take a set of junk Vortecs off a wrecked truck, drop those springs on, and instantly get lift clearance to .550" for free. You gotta read and digest THE WHOLE ARTICLE, not just the part that tells you the stuff you want to hear.

Also, there's another problem with Vortecs; and that is, the valve guide has a HUGE OD, as well as height. It's so big that it won't accommodate a damper inside a spring. It's entirely possible that the inner dia of the beehive springs, being MUCH smaller than a "standard" spring, is too small to fit over the guide.

Be the first to try it and let us know how it works for you. Make history!!!

gapimpin

already ahead of you... i placed the order for the springs retainers and locks... $235 i feel like i just got kicked in the *****...lol but hey if it works i can provide proof for all those wanting to do the vortec swap... and the beehives are supposed to have better valve controle as well so we shall see.
still gotta order a valve spring micrometer to check height. i belive one way they allow more clearance is with shorter retainers. looking at a comparison shot they are way smaller. i should have all this done in about 2wks so ill check back then.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Well, do let us know... those heads are definitely a hot topic.

I agree about the springs; they appear to be a better product all the way around. It's nice to see occasional product introductions that are actually BETTER than the "old reliable" stuff, and not just CHEAPER (and maybe less expensive).

thirdgen88

I LOVE the beehive springs I installed on my E-Tecs (completely different setup)... The new cam helped some I imagine, but that motor doesn't mind revving up now!! The difference is really surprising!

They're expensive, but WORTH EVERY PENNY!

sofa, I never took a measurement, but I think that the retainers for the beehive springs don't have as much thickness at the valve area.. That may be where people are gaining more clearance than with the stock springs/retainers... Just a thought..

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

I am not sure how different Pro Topline Vortecs are, But I am running a dual Crane spring on them now and I bet the Behives would also work great. I had the valve spring pockets all machined the same and then just stacked Valve spring shims in the spring pocket to get the proper operating height. Worked for me.

blyth18md

Heres the applicable parts list from popular hotrodding's "budget sledgehammer" build

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng..._manifold.html

EQ Vortec heads Enginequest CH350C pair, bare $500


Valve springs CCA-26918-16 beehive, .600-inch lift $179.95


Retainers CCA-787-16 for non-LS1 beehive appl. $59.39


Keepers Summit/COMP CCA-648-16 - $27.99

alvanwie

I think CarCraft is probably right on this one. The increase in lift comes from the difference in the thickness of the retainers. Take a close look at the retainers in the picture in the article. I used a similar setup, Crane Valve Spring Retainer Kit – P/N 10309-1, for an LT1 to get the extra clearance (good for about .525") instead of machining the valve guides on my Vortecs. Works fine. Looks like a good idea plus you get the advantage of the beehive springs. Good Luck.

gapimpin

i was told to use the 774-16 retainers i test fitted it last night and they are the right size. did they make 2 retainers for non ls1 use?

Just an update i got all the stuff in i will be porting and assembling the heads this weekend so i will check retainer to valve stem seal clearance and get back with the numbers.

gapimpin

well the verdict is in and guess what....
they work purfectly... the install height is supposed to be 1.8 with my stock shims i was at 1.825 so i added a .030 and took it to a 1.75. coil bind is at 1.14 and with the tall valve stem seals you can still get about a .550 safe lift. these things are awsome. a little more expensive than regular springs but well worth it if you add the cost of machining the heads and buying springs. ill get a picture up once i finish the heads. still gotta do some bowl work before i can put them all together.

longhorn450

iTrader: (1)

I'm glad these worked out good for you. So i guess there is no difference in the 774-16 retainers and the 787-16's?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Those springs can use several different retainers depending on what engine they're going on, for different size valve stems. You just need to get the ones that fit your particular valves.