Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

I finally bought some heads, and they should be here any day. I've been searching and trying to learn as much as I can about these heads, but I still have a few questions that I couldn't find during my searches. If any of my information is wrong please let me know.

-I know that these heads will bolt right up, and I don't have to worry about my intake since I have an 86.

-I can run my stock size (305) push rods with the stock L98's rocker arms as long as I have hardened guide plates and push rods.

-Or I can use the stock(305) push rods and stock(L98) guide plates if I buy guided rocker arms.

-I'm not going to have to worry about the EGR setup, since they don't test for emissions here, so I just plug them up? I have a memcal adapter or something that I bought from a member here, so I'm going to have someone just disable the egr so it doesn't throw a code.

Questions:
-I know that I'm going to be using a head gasket for a 350, but which one? I've been reading on the corvette forums, and I saw two recommended head gaskets. One guy said that the Fel-pro 7733-pt-2 is a common one, and they are perfect for aluminum heads. Then two others said that FPP-1094, is a good choice, cause it raised the compression a bit, which will result in a little hp, and better mpg. He said to check the deck height also since its .015" thick?

-I have a pair of valve covers from a 92Z L98, so I assume those should bolt on to the 113's even though its off a iron head?

-I don't want to buy guide rocker arms, since they seem to cost so much. So which guide plates should I get? Will either of those work?http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...=KeywordSearch

-And I need to get hardened push rods, so does anyone know any hardened stock size push rods?

-I assume for head bolts I just order ones for a 86 Camaro?

Sorry for the long post, any help would be greatly appreciated.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The guide plates that came with 113 heads aren't hardened and don't require hardened pushrods. If you change the guide plates to hardened, you'll have to go with hardened pushrods.

Don't see a problem with either head gasket. I'd go with the 1094, I think.

Valve covers will fit.

Headbolts for an '87 Vette would do the trick (same 113 heads). Should be ones with washers under them. Perhaps something like this http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

So do I need to run hardened guideplates, and pushrods then? I was informed that I should buy hardened guideplates and pushrods, but do I have to, and why?

Also will my stock LB9 lifters work or do I need to get lifters from a 87-91 vette?

Thanks for the help so far.

SpitotRs305

yes the LB9 lifters will work... those are determined by the block not the heads


you dont want to use self-aligning rocker arms with guidplates either

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Soft with soft, or hardened with hardened. Just don't mix them.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

As noted above you do want to use the Corvette head bolts. Some are a different length then the ones for the iron heads.

For the guide plates get the flat style. The ones that step up interfere with the valve cover braces.

RBob.

bigchief

another thing you might want to consider is your exhaust, i too have these heads in my garage that i actually got for free, i currently use the edelbrock street legal headers (with the emissions pipes) i know those 113 heads have the D type exhaust ports and angled plugs right? what exhast are you running?

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

So if theres no need for me to run hardened guideplates and pushrods then I wont get any.

As for my exhaust, I will be getting another set of Hooker 2055's, but for now Im going to have to use my stock exhaust manifolds.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

Here's some pictures of the heads. Previous owner told me they just got a valve job, new seats, springs and retainers. Eglin (never heard of them?) springs that can handle up to .580 lift, stock size valves. And have less than 50 miles on them since the rebuild.

I'm going to clean out the combustion chambers, and port/clean up the intake runners in the head. What other things should I do while I have them off? Should I disassemble them, port the intake runners then have them hot tanked(only $10 per head)?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Aluminum parts should be washed, not hot tanked. Caustic soda and aluminum don't play well together.

But, getting them disassembled and properly cleaned would be a good idea, regardless. The porting is probably a good idea, at least basic clean-up of the flow paths.

MonteCarSlow

Note: It's somewhat hard to see, but I think the wrong spark plugs are in those cyclinder heads...

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

I had no clue, thanks for that bit of information.

How can you tell? Are you talking about how the ends are broken off?

Im also going to be installing this fan switch, while the heads are off I might as well. http://www.madvet.com/shop?frame=1.138.944

bigchief

lol, i'm sure the spark plugs are the least of your worries right now....... i wish i could get going with my 113's, they have been sitting in my garage for ever haha..... that switch looks good i think. how much power are you aiming for with these heads bye the way?

MonteCarSlow

The nose doesn't look like it is protruding into the chamber properly, that's why I say it's hard to see from your photo if that is the case or not. I bought a pair of these heads years ago and you could tell from the carbon buildup on the spark plug hole threads that they used the wrong plug. Compared to your traditional Chevy spark plug, the threads are longer and it uses a gasket instead of a taper to seal to the head.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

My goal for it is to get it in the high 13's in the 1/4 or at least high 8's to low 9's in the 1/8th with all the bolt ons, free mods, and these heads. Hopefully I wont have to touch the cam.


The spark plugs are just barely finger tight, but I don't think they would be in the chamber properly fully tight though. So I should be getting spark plugs like these? http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

I'm still having a hard time deciding if I need/should get hardened push-rods and guide plates.

Guest

Use plugs for an 88 Corvette. IIRC, its an AC Delco FR3LS. If there's no wear on the guideplates, just put in some non hardened pushrods.

Anyway, I'd seriously wonder about those springs and the claimed lift capability. They're not any bigger than stock, since the oil shields are in place. I'd have someone check (if you cant) the seat pressure and lift capability before I'd bank on that story. Usually the first thing you do with any kind of buildup is take those shields and throw them in the nearest trashcan. And even with the wrong plugs, theres way more than 50 miles on them since they were last cleaned.

MonteCarSlow

Yes.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

I'll be taking the heads to a shop to get them cleaned and have them test the springs capability's on Tuesday.

Before I take them I'm going to disassemble them and port/clean up the intake runner tracks. I've read about porting heads and stuff, and I know your suppose to keep them a little rough. But how I was wondering how rough should it be? I have these grinding stones, that worked pretty good on a intake manifold, and after that I was going to use 60 grit sanding drums to smooth it out a bit. Should I not use the 60 grit and leave it after I use the grinding stones or what?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

60 will be fine. Standard Abrasives says no more than 80.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

I just got back from my local shop, and got a call from them. I asked him to do a leak test, to make sure the valves weren't leaking, and he told me that water was leaking out, and was pouring out on half of the valves.

While I was there I asked him to test the springs and he told me they were no better than the stock ones. So another disappointment, but I'm not really concerned about the springs, as much as paying for a valve job that I thought they already had. I emailed the guy I bought them from and hopefully we can work something out.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

Got the heads back about a week ago, and they almost look brand new. Ive received most of the parts that I ordered, and all I need to do is order the head gaskets. Before I order them, I wont have to worry about any clearance problems correct? For my situation what would be better a thinner or thicker head gasket? Thinner or thicker would change the cr, but could somebody explain why would a thinner or thicker one be better? These are the ones Im looking at getting: FPP-1094

I have another question regarding the use of thread sealant. Should I coat all of the threads or maybe just the bottom half on the ARP head bolts? And how much on the intake manifold bolts?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You use head gasket thickness to get the proper "quinch" - the distance between the top of the piston and the surface of the head. That's a combination of how far down in the hole the pistons are (.025-.035" is pretty typical), and the compressed thickness of the gasket. If the pistons are down .025" in the hole, a .015" gasket will give you .040" "quinch", which is what you're looking for. If the block has been "zero decked" so the top of the pistons is right at the top of the block surface, you want thicker gaskets.

Use Teflon paste on the threads where they engage the block (head bolts) or head (intake bolts) threads.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

I have started the heads swap. So far I have the everything from the intake manifold and up off. I also got the water neck sanded and polished, and ported the intake manifold. Tomorrow, I'm going to paint the intake manifold, remove the exhaust manifolds, remove the heads, clean off all the gasket material, and the rest of the engine bay while I have all that free space, and some other stuff.

I have a few more questions, and need to clarify some things as well:

-The cooling fan switch screws into the drivers side head, and the temp. switch screws into the passenger side head right?
-From what I know these heads don't have exhaust crossovers, so theres no way the egr gasses can get to the egr it self? So should I bolt my egr valve back on and hook it up, and let it throw a code, or should I just make a block off plate? I don't have to worry about emissions so which choice would be best, and why if it that matters?

Heres some pictures of my progress.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The temp gage sender goes in the driver's side head.

I believe you'll get an SES light with no EGR gases going through the valve (temp sensor in the valve). The Vette TPI aluminum headed engines had an external pipe from the exhaust manifold to the intake base. Might be simpler to tune out the EGR from the PROM.

gcpoland

iTrader: (18)

Unplug the EGR control and run a block off plate. You won't get any codes.

To correct some misinformation; 113 cast heads that came on ZZ4s and bought from GM Performance come with the ability to use a gasketed plug(FR5LS) or taper seat (MR43LTS). Either one will work.

Early corvette 113's used gasketed ones. Depends on which 113 head you have.

Cobra289

Check the push rod length!
Because I see that you use the flat tappet and the heads you mention are probably used with roller lifters, so the Corvette push rods are shorter to fit the long roller lifters.

Regards,
Cobra289

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

Ok thanks, I guess what I saids only for late 80's to 90's corvettes.

I'm just going to go ahead and run a block off plate, they look simple enough to make.

As for the push rod length, I'm pretty positive that the stock camaro push rods are the correct size, a few people have done this head swap and I'm pretty sure no one had any problems using the stock push rods. If they did I hope they would post up.

The morning stated with a big puddle of fuel under my car. The fuel line must of slipped off, or something cause it was trickling down. After that the day went pretty smooth, didn't strip any bolts, broken bolts, or anything like that. The exhaust manifold bolts were pretty easy to get off, half of them on the drivers side were barely hand tight. The weight of the ratchet was enough to loosen them. Then came getting the head bolts lose... Man that was a piece of cake. I remember trying to loosen the head bolts on my bros 83 Z, I couldn't budge even one of them. Mine were tight but they weren't nearly as tight as the 83's. Unbolted all the accessory's, but after that I pretty much cleaned up all the tools, organized the parts, and made sure I labeled every thing so everything goes smoothly during re-assembly. I wasn't able to clean up the block or engine bay like I planed on so hopefully I can get the new heads bolted on and some of the accessory's tomorrow. What should I torque the heads to, 50ft.lbs.? And is there any special pattern to use when torquing down aluminum heads, or just do it how you would with iron heads?


I plan on having if finished on or by Friday, so I can run it at the track.
Heres couple pics:

Cobra289

Hi,

I have collect a torque spec sheet with all the required torque settings.
You ask for the torque of the heads, it is 65 ft.-lbs
Don't forget to put there some thread sealant, I use the Teflon paste of Permatex.
You can download from my site at:
http://www.donostia.demon.nl/350cid-...ifications.doc

Be aware that with the aluminum heads the torque of the manifold bolts can be done by hand. Just when it is thigh you stop.
It is easy to destroy the threads of heads that connect the manifold.

I hope you have a good run on the weekend.

Regards,
Cobra289

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I'd check your cyls. I hope thats mainly carbon up top, but if that ridge is greater than .0015" or .003" total than the block needs to be bored or at least power honed, and something like a hyper piston used. (hyper pistons are about .002" larger than cast).

-- Joe

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

Thanks for the torque specs Cobra. I'll make sure to take it easy on the intake bolts.

Anesthes, those pictures make it look allot worse than it really is. It wasn't to difficult cleaning it up, so I shouldn't have a problem.

I was able to torque the heads down, reconnected all the grounds on the back of the heads, and finished painting some parts. I didn't get much done, I spent most of the time cleaning, and making sure the heads had a nice clean surface to sit on. Heres some pics, its starting to look like a motor again.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

OMG, I just noticed that the valve cover are on the wrong way. The oil cap should in the back, and I dont think you can just flip them right? Damn this sucks.

Cobra289

Oh! don't worry just exchange the left for the right and that sit, but don't rotate, just move from left to right and vice versa.
Than the hoses and PCV will fit the right way.

Looks pretty nice!

Regards,
Cobra289

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

You have them on the correct sides; both are just turned around backwards.

Yes you can flip them back the right way easily. Rotate hardware counterclockwise, lift part, rotate 180°, rotate hardware clockwise.

Cobra289

That is right, I was focused on the PCV system and forgot the location of the oil fill cap. That original should be at the left side.

Thanks!
Regards,
Cobra289 (Carlos)

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

I rotated the drivers side valve cover so that the oil filler cap is in the back, and it doesn't fit right. I will take a picture of what I'm talking about right now.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

Here's the pics:






I put the valve cover with the oil filler hole on the passenger side head, and the filler cap is in the back, and the hole for the pcv is in the front. Is this cause I have camaro L98 valve covers on corvette heads? Or did I put the heads on wrong? Though I don't see how I could have.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You can't put the heads on wrong.

Pretty weird that the covers won't go on the other way. I have seen different rail widths on factory centerbolt heads, though.

BTW, I hope you're using stock push rods for flat tappet lifters. Stock roller lifter push rods (such as used in engines with 113 heads) would be too short.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

Cool, thanks. And yeah Iam using my stock push rods from the LB9.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

That's a flat-tappet engine you've got those heads on, right? Sure looks like it from the pictures.

Only LB9 pushrods from '85 & '86 will work. '87-on will be too short.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

Really wow I never knew that. Good thing I have an 86 .

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

Should I set the valve lash before I put the intake and distributor in? The Chilton's manual says to install the push rods, rocker arms, then set the valve lash. Should I install the intake and distributor then set the valve lash or do it the other way? Oh, and I marked the position of the distributor and rotor before I took them out.

Guest

Not sure those are Camaro L98 covers.

Anyway, no you cant flip the centerbolt valve covers 180. Doesnt work. The bolt holes are offset in relation to the valve cover rails so they only fit one way.

Doesnt matter when you set the lash, but if you marked the location and then turn the engine, your mark is NFG anymore and you'll have to reset it by setting TDC and all that nonsense and then later flip it 180 because like everyone else's luck... it'll be off and wont run right.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

The valve covers are off a Camaro, I got them off dads 92 L98 Camaro. Unless the previous owner got different ones.

I went to put the intake manifold on and could only start the bolts on one side, or the other. I couldn't get it on without forcing all the bolts in on one of the sides; so I decided to open the holes up, and my dremal decides to break. 4 hours later my brother tells me why don't you use the drill? I had a grinding bit perfect for the job, and only took about 15 mins. So all I got done today was install the exhaust manifolds and water pump. So it looks like I wont be able to take it to the track until next Fridays T&T.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

I'm done with the valve lash, and I was about to install the Cooling Fan Switch I bought, but the 86's don't have fan switch's? How do the fans know when to turn on, and should I install the fan switch I bought? All I bought was the Cooling Fan Switch



EDIT: So I guess the fans are controlled by the ECM.

Guest

Yes the 86, should be a single fan, is controlled by the ECM via the CTS in the intake manifold.

I'm confused why the manifold didnt fit just fine. Thats weird. Sounds like something is amiss, to me.

Cobra289

You can always add a new FAN, that is call the Heavy Duty FAN.
This one will be activated by the switch that you bough.
Hoe it works?
The switch has been preset to a determined temperature, when the coolant reach that temperature it will short to earth and pass the electricity to the relay that will activate the FAN.

The switch is normally installed at the right hand head.

The main coolant FAN will be activated by the ECM and can be via two information channels, one is the coolant water sensor (located at the front of the manifold) or by the A/C pressure switch.

I hope this help.
Cobra289

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it.

The manifold fit fine without the intake gaskets, but once I put on the intake gaskets it raised it a bit to where either one side or the other would be just a hair to high. Maybe its because the heads are sitting a little bit lower because of how thin the heads gaskets are? I don't know, hopefully it doesn't really matter though.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

Got everything back together, started it up, and have a few problems.

First problem is water or coolant started leaking threw the little hole in the flex plate/torque converter cover. It wasn't pouring out allot but it wasn't a little bit either. So I took off the cover to see if I could find where its leaking and I don't have the slightest idea. It only leaks when its running, and it seems to be leaking on the passenger side. Any ideas on what this could be?

Next, I took of the passenger side valve cover to try to find the leak and there wasn't any oil in the head. Now I didn't have the car running longer than probably 25 secs, so is that why there isn't any oil in there yet? Also my brother found that the nut grounding the wires on the drivers side head wasn't tight, could that be causing any of these problems?

SpitotRs305

i would say that you might get a little bit of oil but not alot in 25 secs at idle remember the only oil the heads will get is from the pushrods... however the water is a new one... if it is coming from inside the bell housing it is probably coming from one of the freeze plugs ...

take a look at your oil and see what it looks like

Cobra289

Wow! something say to me that this is not good!
I don't know about coolant at the flex plate, coolant is at the engine block and heads, so if you found at the cover it should come from the head gasket or from one of the rear freeze plugs that is leaking.
But you didn't touch this area, so if it leaks from there it was all ready there for a wile.

Dry heads! that is bad, I always put there oil to all the components, springs rockers, etc. to help it to have a wet start.
Why you didn't use a pre-lube?
It took me 20 minutes with a drill machine to have oil at every rocker but with the engine running it should get oil there after 20 seconds.

Anyway, I would advise to use a pre-lube method now you are on time.
If a new filter was installed and was empty it will take a wile before you get oil on the top of the engine.

Regards,
Cobra289