online170

Did a search, read the tech article, im still lost.

Most guys say, put it where you "want", read what the "sticker says". I dont have a sticker in my car, and im not sure the car "wants" what i "want".

Anyway, im really new to timing, and i understand some of the basic concepts, initial, vacuum and total, but i dont know the procedure for it, or what to look for.

First off, its a 355 carbureted engine. With a cam that has roughly a 228* actual duration, and 284 advertised. I was told its a 284H cam, but from which company i do not know. Its powered by a holley double pumper (750cfm), and a stock HEI distributor, with a super accel coil.

That being said, this is what i did.

1) disconnect the vacuum advance, and plug at both ends (carb and dist.)
2) Hook up the timing light.
3) Start the car, bring it up to temp.
4) Reduce the idle to 800rpm.
5) Read the timing, (it was way advanced, because i did it by ear all the time, before i bought a timing light today.)
6) Adjusted it to the 12* on the timing mark.

Question; Im not sure i did it right, because if i advance the timing from this point, the vacuum will actually rise. Usually more vacuum = good. Did i do something wrong?

Apeiron

Get a recurving kit for the distributor. Put a set of weights and/or springs in it that will give you all your centrifugal advance by about 3000 RPM, or sooner if your engine will tolerate it.

With the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged, have an assistant hold the engine at 3000 RPM, and set the timing at this speed to about 34 degrees advanced.

Try a few WOT runs. If you don't get any pinging, try giving it a couple more degrees, and/or change the weights/springs to bring the advance in a little quicker. If you do get pinging, back off a couple of degrees until it stops.

Use an adjustable vacuum advance can, and lock the vacuum advance down to around 10-12 degrees, all in by about 12 inHg or so. You can vary the amount and rate of vacuum advance to suit your preference and the engine's needs. If you have part throttle pinging, use less advance and/or a slower rate.

A largeish cam like yours might like idling better if the vacuum advance is on manifold vacuum instead of ported. Or it might not. You can try both to see what works best.

online170

Thanks alot Aperion. Few more questions;

Should i worry about what vacuum reading my timing is at? ie: Is it alright if the vacuum reading increases (higher vacuum) with advanced timing? Or should i not worry about that?

Also, i have just a basic timing light (got it on sale so i have a rough idea of what im tuning. What does the 3000rpm reading accomplish? Also, how do i read 34*? Is this initial, or total, or....? The marked tab on the engine only goes up to 14*, so....?

Finally, for the vacuum port, its the one on the Holley 750 DP, the timed one. It only comes on on certain carb positions. I tried it on the intake manifold, and the idle was kinda unpredictable. Its starting to get colder here, so once in a while it'll idle nice, other times it kinda struggles, and misses a beat. So i switched it back to the timed port, seems to like it better.

Sorry if i sound kinda dumb, but ive never timed a vehicle before, let alone one that has new internals. Thanks.

Apeiron

Idle vacuum will increase with additional advance, that's normal.

Running the engine up to 3000 RPM (after you've changed the weights and springs) will make sure that the centrifugal advance is fully in. The engine will make its best power with around 34 degrees of advance at this speed and above. This will be the "centrifugal (or mechanical) + base" advance, or the "total" advance at WOT with no vacuum advance. It's much more important for performance than the "base" advance at idle is, so don't worry about the advance at idle. Whatever it is after you've done this is "right".

If you don't have an advance timing light, you can make a mark on your balancer at the right location. Measure the circumference of the balancer, divide it by 360 to figure out how many inches per degree of advance, then multiply by 34 to figure out how many inches away from the TDC mark you need. Put a mark this distance away from the TDC mark in the clockwise direction.

F-BIRD'88

You need to remove and tear down the distributor to modify the mechanical advance curve. You now have about 20 to 24deg of mechanical advance in the distributor. You need to limit the mechanical travel to limit the mechanical advance to around 12deg. that way you can set the timing correctly for a cam with 228deg@.050".
You would set the initial timing at 22 to 24deg BTDC @ idle, and then rev the motor to check that the timing maxes out at 34 to 36deg BTDC at high rpm.

You limit the mechanical advance travel by shortening the slot that the advance limit pin runs in. Weld it up and grind smooth. This requires you remove the distributor shaft from the body.

In the mean time untill you can get at that. you can set up your motor by locking out the advance curve and seting the timing to 34-36deg BTDC.

You can easily lock out the advacne curve on a HEI by removing the cap and rotor. Remove the advance weights and springs. Move the advance mechanism fully advanced. using two medium plastic electrical tie wraps wrap the mechanism so it is locked. Orient the knots of the tie wraps down so tha the rotor will go back on. reasemble the distributor and reset the timing with a timing light to 34-36deg BTDC.
Now you can readjust your carb and go for a ride.

How do you find 36deg on your harmonic balancer?

36degress is 1/10th around the diameter of the balancer. Wrap a piece of masking tape around the balancer marking it where it meets the TDC mark.
remove the tape and measure the length between the two marks you made.
that length divided by 10 is the length from TDC to 36deg BTDC on the balancer. Mark the tape at the 1/10th length along the tape and reinstall it on the balancer aligning your tdc marks as before. mark the balancer for 36deg BTDC. Now you can set your timing at 36deg BTDC.

You can either run the motor like this or recurve the distributor advance curve as above.
In either case, The vacuum advance will need to be limited to 12-15deg travel as posted earlier.

Your motor with its 284H cam needs increased initial timing at idle to idle and run correctly but need the same typical 32-36deg maximum advance at high rpm. That's why you have to recurve the distributor to limit the advance travel. Swapping springs will not cut it.
You need at least 20 to 24deg advance at idle for the motor to idle correctly with that camshaft.

If the motor is hard to start (cranks slow) with the timing locked out to 34-36deg bTDC, install a simple dash mounted ignition power cut off toggle switch on the HEI red power wire to allow you to disable the spark while cranking. Crank it over with the spark off, then throw the switch and it will fire easily.
If your using a MSD or simular spark box wire the disable switch on the power on wire (small red wire that goes to the key), not the big power supply wire.
Use a single pole single throw switch rated for 15amps or higher.

There are two common, popular "284H" cams you're likely to have. One is a Crane cam 284-284 228-228-.480".480" 112LSA.
the other is a COMP cams XE284H-10 Extreme energy grind. it a little bigger at 240-246deg@.050 .507" .510" 110LSA. The set up for either is pretty much the same.

replace the power valve in your holley carb with a power valve rated to open @ 4.5". The power valve must remain closed at idle.

online170

THank you very much both Apeiron,a nd F-Bird. Thats incredibly informative.

Now you are right, when i give the motor more advance at idle, it loves it, smooths out, and runs faster/better.

Lets say i go with F-bird's option of recurving, should i still get springs and an adjustable vacuum can?

I have weights and springs now, but they are the cheap mr' gasket ones. So im gonna buy the crane set instead.

Also, i just want to dial in the timing. I bought the carb from a member here who was running it on his 383, will get to that after the timing .

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Yea, you've got two ways to skin the cat there. Personally I used F-bird's way, and i'm running 24* base, 36* full on, with a welded up slot. I only have the xe268h with 224/230@.050", but without the added timing it needed LOADS of throttle angle to idle. I only have 13" vacuum at idle, and my brakes work perfectly fine, are you having any problems with that?

Yes, springs and the adjustable vacuum can are handy for either method.
I'm using the crane vac can. It's listed in Damons "Performance HEI setup" article on the main page here of TGO.

If you already have the mr gasket spring set, you're fine. They're all the same. You do want the vacuum can though, it comes with a lockout tab so you can only have ~12* of vacuum advance.

online170

Sonix, you probably remember me complaining about timing, when i was trying to figure out what cam i had with you and supervisor. I was telling you guys i was getting all these upgrades done. Well i got them all bolted on, and now is the fun part! THE TUNING!!!! So thats what this is all about,.

Brakes work fine, idles fine usually all the time. Except i have a million gauges in my car, so i know when the slightest thing goes wrong.

I can judge the quality of idle, with oil pressure, tach and vacuum reading.

So ill try F-Birds way with the mr. gasket springs, see what i get.

Thanks everyone.

online170

BROUGHT BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!

I accumulated all these parts over the last 8 months or so, and i had so many mini projects, that i forgot about alot of them.

Anyway, im attempting this really soon, picking up the parts today, so i want to make sure i understand this 100% correctly.

First off, a question.
So total = base + mechanical
and Vac advance is in addition to this correct??? So let say i have my car set to 34 deg. total advance, and i limit my vacuum to 12*. Does that mean i could run 46* of combined timing at some running condition???

Second question is, i was reading Apeiron and Fbird's response, which a year ago seemed like the same thing (posts #4 and #5). But i understand it a bit better now. Apeiron suggested i just throw some springs and vac adjust in there and time it for total. But Fbird mentioned that with my cam, it will not idle nice at all. Fbird is correct in that, my car idles at a timing WAY above the timing mark. Probably 20-24* as he mentioned. The previous owner left the distributor slight loose, so he could turn the distributor as needed, cuz he couldnt get the timing right. If i idle nice, i ping at WOT, but if i retard it enough to not ping, it idles like crap.

So i think i like Fbird's way better, because its the same as Apeiron with the addition of the mechanical advance adjustment.

My question is, you mentioned to "weld the slot and grind it smooth". Im assuming the weights travel in the slot, so if you plug up the slot, it can only travel so far. So if i give my distributor 22-24* of base timing, how do i know how big to weld in the slot to acheive a perfect 36*???? Do you weld a big blotch and just grind away till its good, or.......?

And final question, is with the weights and springs and vac adjustment. Im assuming i want 22-24* base, and a total of 34-36*, and a vac of 12-15*. So those are three points that the timing will hit at various rpms, and im guessing the vac adjustment, and the springs tailor the "transition" between each. ie: how quickly or slowly it goes from one point to another. And if so, each engine will behave a little different, so itll be trial and error.

Do i have that correctly?

Thanks for any help.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

ok, i'll tackle a few here:

Your slots are for mechanical advance, not total. Remember total is base + mechanical. So lets say you have 20* normally (which is normal...). So personally, I welded mine up about half the length. Ground off the top of the weld (so that the weights could move correctly), and smoothed it off with a file. Started it back up. Gave it 14* initial, then revved it up. Turns out I had about 12* mechanical advance. Perfect! Set my initial to 24* and revved it back up to check - 36*. Bingo! I think that's what you want.

I now have removed my weights and springs, and have zip tied the advance gizmo to full travel. I have 35* across the board. Oh, and about 8* vacuum on top of that, so yea, low 40's when under 75% load or so....

Apeiron

Yes

The larger the cam, the more timing you'll need at idle. For moderate cams, you can give it full-time vacuum advance at idle, and it's usually happy. For larger cams, so you'd limit the amount of mechnical advance, and increase the base timing. For very large cams, you may need to lock out the mechanical advance entirely and increase the base timing to 34 degrees or so.

It's trial and error, unless you're using something like an aftermarket distributor that has interchangeable bushings or something to control the amount of advance. The exact base timing isn't as important as the total. Get the total right, and get the base close enough that it idles happily.

The weights and springs control the rate of advance, ie. at what RPM you reach full mechanical advance. The vacuum advance adjustment controls how much additional advance you have under low-load conditions, ie. at what vacuum you reach full vacuum advance. Tuning is always a trial-and-error process, regardless of what you're tuning or how you're doing it.

online170

I have ALWAYS wondered about this. I see some people running the locked out versions, and other people running all the advance functions, but i never really knew why someone would choose one over the other.

I was under the impression though, that if you locked out your distributor, and its running total advance all the time, its been tuned for max hp/tq.

Im trying to acheive highest average hp/tq, so i would imagine playing with the mechanical would be the way to go, since you can change more variables to fine tune the system at every rpm.

Is that a correct assumption?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Locked out timing tends to give more HP/tq across the usable powerband, in my opinion.
It's just harder to start the car. But I have a nice big battery and new starter. Otherwise you may need a start retard.
I'd just use the original suggestion, 24* base, 12* mech or so. I don't think you have enough cam to need to lock out your timing.

Apeiron

Not exactly. The point of varying the mechanical advance curve is to get the spark to always fire at exactly the right time at every speed under WOT. It doesn't matter if you're trying to get the "highest average HP/TQ" or "max HP/TQ"... they're the same thing. You get both the highest average and the highest peak when the advance is correct at every point in the curve.
----------
No, correct timing gives more HP/TQ across the usable powerband. Locked out timing is used on engines with big cams, which are usually doing all their work at a speed well above the point where an engine with a smaller cam will have all its mechanical timing in. If you've got a torque converter that stalls at 4000 RPM, you don't care all that much if your mechanical advance is locked out, or if it's all in by 2400 RPM, or 3000 RPM, or whatever. When you go to WOT, the engine only spends an instant at a speed below 4000 RPM.

I have locked-out timing on an XR282, which may be somewhat similar to what he's got.

F-BIRD'88

With the XE284H-10 in my 406 I;ve been running the mechanical timing locked out for a few seasons now. Runs just fine. Vac adv is about 12-15deg at high speed part throttle cruise. controled by ported source. This cam seems to have enough overlap and exhaust delution (egr effect) at idle and low speed to require this locked timing.
If it is wrong, It is not by enough to worry about.
If mine was not running so well I would have dug in a re-did the advance curve a long tine ago. Give it a try.
Only down side is needing a ignition power interupt switch to allow easy hot cranking and starting. (or a cranking retard box on the ignition)

online170

cant hurt i guess. Ill try the locked out setting, since it just involves removal of everything. If it doesnt work out, ill work on recurving it.

When my distributor is advanced, it starts BEAUTIFULLY. Barely gets through 1 crank, and its purring already. With the distributor retarded, its not too bad either, maybe 2-3 cranks and it starts up. Only bothers me when its cold. So i dont think the locked timing is gonna give me issues.

Thanks for all the replies, ive always struggled with this subject, and im learning alot. Im sure itll stick when i actually do it.

Apeiron

Try it after a hot soak in the sun in 36 degree weather with 34 degrees of advance during cranking.

online170

I realized while i was setting up the "locked out" distributor, that my freind's olds cutlass with an olds 350 is setup exactly like this. He even has an ignition throw switch near the steering wheel, which we though was a security feature.

Anyways, my car behaves similar to his now, but with a couple of issues.

I took apart a bit of my distributor, and got rid of all the weights and springs. I advanced the mechanism fully (with the 4 tabs for spring mounting in line), and installed the adjustable vacuum advance canister. Had a little trouble with the canister at first, but its doing alright now.

Anyways, put it all back together, and with the vacuum advance plugged at both ends, i set the timing by turning the distributor to 36*. Then i hooked up the vacuum advance, and revved up until the advance wouldnt "advance" anymore, and turned out my 4 turns of the canister adjustment, brought it to right around 12-15* of vacuum advance.

The car was already warmish, about 150* or so, but it was starting to get dark, so no soaking in the sun. When the car starts, it sounds kind of like those older planes, that you had to start. It starts off at about 300rpm, then kinda goes up to regular idle gradually to 850rpm. (Just like my freind's cutlass). The idle sounds much more "lopey" than it did before. I can watch the revs jump about 50rpms or so while its idling.

On a quick little drive, i thought i heard knocking on a gentle slope around 1200rpm, but it may have been an exhaust leak.

A little spirirted driving shifting all the way up to third at about 6000rpm, revealed no knocking.

Above 2000 rpm it just purrs, below 1500, it doesnt sound so hot (as in not smooth).

The spirited driving didnt feel as fast as i remember, but i got up to 130km/h pretty quick, and it was constant. There is also a bog when im below 1400ish rpm, and if i try to hold it there, the car sorta jerks a little like its misfiring. (not too radical, you have to concentrate to feel it).

The biggest problem though, was stalling. I stalled 3 times on the way home from my freind's house (20 min drive).

Everytime im on the throttle, and i let off (with no load) it just sounds like it wants to die. Almost like its out of fuel, or some one cut off the air supply or something. While shifting gears normally, i used to be able to get into the next gear, and let out the clutch, and catch the rpm right where it needed to be in the next gear. Now during the shift, the rpm falls to idle RIGHT AWAY and so i have to use the gas to bring it up, to rev match and into the next gear.

When slowing down, i usually pop it out of gear, and into neutral. WHen i did this, the car almost always souded like it was going to die. It would drop to almost 300rpm, and some times it would rev back up, but 3 times, it just stalled. (steering the car in this condition makes it want to die more. Gentle braking makes it want to die more. But hard braking helps it climb back up to 1000rpm). Like i said, it idles nice (lopey but good), it only does this while letting off the gas after load. It wouldnt do it if i just revved up in neutral when the car was still.

I dont know if the locked out setting is supposed to be like this, but i noticed also that most people cruise around 2000 rpm. For example, my bro's grand prix, with a 700R4 and 16" iroc wheels and tires, cruises at maybe 1900rpm or so on the highway. However, with the T56, i am able to cruise at 1400rpm (sometimes even less). I used to all the time. It helps with gas mileage on those daily driving days, and i have the torque to push it, so why not??? Im just curious to know if its the timing causing me to lose driveability or the carb.

Now i think i know a couple reasons it might be doing this. First off, my carb isnt tuned. Actually im borrowing my freind 650 DP. Its an out of the box 4150series carb, with a choke horn. When my timing was not setup correctly, ie: around 20* of advance plus whatever the mechanical and vacuum was from a factory dist., it didnt do any of these things.

The only other thing that i can think of conrtibuting to this, is a vacuum leak. My engine seems to have excessive blowby, so i just put a PCV valve on, hooked up to manifold vacuum. The idle went up about 150rpm after the PCV valve, kind of like a vacuum leak.

What do you think it could be?

Second question is, i tried to find the "slots" you guys mentioned in case i decide to recurve the distributor, but i have no idea what youre talking about, when i looked at the distributor. I didnt see anything like i was picturing in my head, would anyone have a pic or a description of where the slots and weights would be??

Apeiron

You say you took out all the weights and springs? You don't have locked-out timing then, you have free-floating timing.

The slots are in the upper plate that the spring pins stick up through.

online170

Whats the difference?

I took out the weights (L shaped things) and the springs that were on top, fully advanced the mechanism, and tie wrapped them in that position. So they will stay in that position until i remove the straps.....

online170

Just an update. I think i had my timing a little higher than 12-15* on my advance side. I was kinda tired when doing it, and i lined up the 12* mark with a (-) number on the tab instead of zero, so i think it was a lil more advanced than it could handle.

Today however, the timing tape fell off, so i turned out the vacuum advance with the allen key to retard it a couple of turns. (it said to turn it clockwise from fully CC about 4 turns to put it in the ball park of 12*). However, it also mentioned, that if the initial timing was more than 10-14* the curve would change (which it did).

Long story short, it ran beautifully. I could put it into neutral after load, or let off the gas, and it wouldnt drop below idle. I tried to put it in the same circumstances as when it stalled, and i couldnt get it to stall. So i think ththe vac. advance was the problem.

There is however, a small knock between idle and 1400rpm under load. I cant get it to go away, i dont know what it is..... Im gonna assume its the carb, because its my freinds. Ever since ive borrowed it, its never liked off idle start up.

So far so good, i may not have to recurve it after all. Thanks for the help!

Supervisor42

The listed operating rpm range for most 284 cams are 2000-6000 or 2300-6500. They ain't kidding about that. That's why you hear so much talk about high-stall converters and changing rear gears. If the engine has a significant load placed on it below the operating range you can expect detonation unless the timing is pulled down on it. And as this thread proves, there goes your idle.
Simply put, a near-factory cam will operate well below 2000 rpm, a 284 will ping.

Apeiron

Yup, that cam should never be allowed to see load below 1400 RPM.

online170

Thats too bad.

With my 3.42 gears, 235/60/14 tires and 0.5 6th gear, that dials into 62mph (100km/h) at 1400 rpm.

With my 750 holley DP, that was running pig rich, and timing probably very retarded at that time, it didnt give me any issues. I was able to cruise on the highway at 100-120 in 6th around 1400-1600 rpm and even slow down sometimes without downshifting. I only had to downshift if it reached 800rpm!!!! This all equated to 34mpg!!!!

With a 355 thats pretty damn cool. (aparently its the same as a prius).

This is why i was so adament to have it operate in that range.

What if i got a timing retard control on it from MSD or something? It will probably run right with that, but is it physically harmful to the engine components?

If its really not worth the trouble, i guess ill swallow up a few MPG and keep it around 2000rpm.

Supervisor42

If it pings for a sustained length of time it will harm the engine.
You can either get a "streetable" cam or get fancy with some MSD gear.
Or, you could just downshift...

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Put in 4.11 gears already!

My cam doesn't like to run below 2000RPM either. I can lug it around *very lightly loaded* at about 1500RPM, (4th gear, 1:1, at about 40km/hr or so) and it'll be ok, but if I give it a bit more gas it'll lug. Like trying to drive a 'normal car' around at 600RPM.... it just lugs!!!

Downshift. And get steeper gears, let the sucker run!

online170

YES! thats exactly what mine does. So i guess im being stupid because its only 400rpm, but dammit i want my cake and be able to eat it too!


I took the car out today and stayed at 2000 rpm..... It seems to run alot smoother, no lugging or missfiring.

As for the 4.10 gears, its complicated, and im definately out of funds. I need like 3k more to finish the car, and i just dont have it. So itll have to wait till next year.

I may decide to get some MSD gear if i start going on long cruises, but for now ill just downshift. Definately NOT getting a new cam. As difficult as this is for me to time, its a beast when i thrash it! and thats what counts. Thanks.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

If you're into JY diving, you can always snag 4.10's from an astrovan/S15 truck. They're hard to come by, but apparently exist.... Gears are like an engine block, they don't 'wear out' per se.
I'm using S10 3.73 gears now.

online170

Yep i remember the extensive conversation we had about that. I may have to do that.

Just another update.

DO NOT i say again, DO NOT use tie wraps to keep the distributor in "locked out" timing.

I was showing my bro on the way home from school how nice the car runs now. So i shifted down to first getting onto the freeway, shifted at 6000rpm, into second, up to 6000, then i hear POP and the revs dropped to 3000 rapidly, and continued to drop. (my foot is still on the gas, the same as when it was at 6000rpm).

I give it some gas, and each time i hit the gas the revs drop. Finally i hear a loud BANG!!!! out the tail pipe (im still on the onramp) so i turn the key off and pull over as much as i could.

I had no idea what could have happened, i honestly thought i shattered a piston or something. I pop the hood, and start to tinker. I only have my keys as tools. I started with problems ive had before.
1) Sticky needle, in the car, causing the float to flood the car. NOPE.
2) Wait for a while for the gas to clear out cuz its flooded. NOPE.
3) Check, recheck, and triple check the ignition wire and install correctly. NOPE.

Thats where i had to give up, because i could only do so much from this side of the car (because the other side had 100km/h cars zooming by, less than 2 feet away).

Called my freind to use his road side assistance. Waited 5 hours, then they told us as midnight they didnt have a flatbed (which my freind requested) OR any means what-so-ever of towing a RWD car. <<---- im sure you could fill in any emotions i was feeling at this time....


Finally we said F** it and called a private tow truck guy (who knew i was desperate) and towed the car back to school for $100......

I had all night to think about what could have happened, and i was convinced the zip ties got brittle and broke. Causing a "floating timing" situation. First pop was out the carb cuz it was too advanced, second pop was out the tail pipe cuz it was too retarded. Then it wouldnt start cuz it was REALLY retarded.

Sure enough when i got to school today, its exactly what was wrong. So i put the original weights and spring back in, and i couldnt dial in the timing with the weights for the life of me. It was mis-firing like crazy. I limped it home, and gonna find a more permanent solution this weekend.....

I was surfing the web and i found this....

http://www.mez.co.uk/dcam/DSCF0326.JPG

Is there someone who makes a plate like that? if not, maybe i can make one myself.

Apeiron

That one looks home-made itself. I don't know of any commercial products like that, but for something as simple as that I don't think I'd buy one anyway.

BTW, in this hobby a CAA membership pays for itself in a hurry.

online170

Workin on getting a roadside assistance program for myself. Maybe i should carry the family cell phone with me too....

For the guys running this sort of timing, what are you using? Ties, or....?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

oh yea, all hail CAA...
What??? Any tow truck can tow a RWD car, they just pick it up by the rear end! Of course on a busy freeway that's a bit of a sketchy proposal....
I'd let them two it two blocks off the freeway, into a parking lot, then swap it over... If I had the choice.

So the zip ties failed?!? Weird! Mine seem to be holding up pretty good so far... 8 months or so.

Hopefully nothing else failed here.... I would do a compression test if it were me.... Or pull and check the plugs...
(the next guy with an SBC and headers who complains about how difficult it is to pull the plugs is getting a swift internet smack-upside the head for being lazy!)

Apeiron

No, you use dolly wheels, but none of the drivers even know how they work anymore.

online170

The dolly wheels was gonna be an extra $150.

Ive had my old astro towed with the rear wheels up, but the bird is a little low in the front to do that. My air dam would scrape.

I did find a company that sells that plate, but like apeiron suggested, im not payin for it!
http://www.circletracksupply.com/pro...?productid=102

Gonna fab something up either tonight or tommorow and see how it looks.

I dont think i need to do a comp test, the starter cranks all cylinders smoothly, so i dont think i have any internal damage, and the mis-fire is inconsistent. Meaning all cylinder are firing at some point. So i dont think i hurt anything.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Yea, you can use the dolly wheels, i've had that done once.
Usually they just pick up the back end. I have a brand new air dam, and it's still there! (towed 3 times since installing it )

F-BIRD'88

Sorry to hear you got stuck on the hyway.

Thats weird. I tie wrapped my distributor, what 3-4 years ago.
Been in two motors now.
You must have done something criticaly different from what I did.
Or your tie wraps wee made of chineseium.

Did they break or fall off?

Did you ever figure out exactly which cam is in your motor?

online170

I bet the tie wraps were incredibly cheap ones and brittle to start with. I dont know if they broke, or came loose, but i wasnt able to find them when i opened the dist. cap. They are probably kicking around in there. They were on the smaller side as well, and i probably didnt leave enough "extra" when i cut off the ends. I dunno, maybe tie wraps arent so bad if you pick good ones, but can you blame me for not wanting to use em again?

Ill check when i go to fix it.

I never found out for sure what cam i have, but im fairly convinced its a 284, Seems to behave like one anyway from what you guys have described.

online170

Heres what i fabricated...

When i say "I" i mean my freind. I went over to his place and told him the situation, and he is restoring his dad's boat which has stood for like 15 years, and didnt feel like sanding anymore, so he was very happy to get his paws on some power tools....

It was a complete ...... i think its a hinge or a slot for a door o something..... but i couldnt fit the rotor over it, so i did some trimming. The big "circle" in the pic used to be the center of the whole slot thing. I could only get the C-clip on the lower side of the pic, so i installed the springs over top for extra security, and if you look close, i also "gooped" it along the edge, and in the big hole.

Ghetto? ---> Very
Over kill?---> Probably
Peace of mind?--> Finally
Will it work?----> Ill find out after my bro moves his car, but i dont see why it shouldnt.

Ill try to shoot a couple clips of it idling and ripping through the first 2 gears (cuz after that im speeding), to show you how it runs.

For the 12 hours it DID run right before the tie wrap failure, i was blown away.

Also, i found the tie wraps, and confirmed they DID break. I should have shot a pic of that too.... Any ways, heres the pic.