mlaudon

Hi guys. Well im working on my first engine build and want to know what you thought about my set-up. The engine is going in a 89 camaro rs. weight of the car is going to be a round 3000 lbs.

ENGINE

The engine is a 355 .30
Stock crank and rods/ARP bolts.
Enginetech pistons 10.1 comp
Enginetech cam 480/480
Procomp heads manley valves 2.02/1.60 valves and 64cc and 210cc intake runners. .600 lift with comp cam springs.
1.6 aluminum rockers
3300 Stall
Aluminum single plane intake. all port matched everything
Carb for fuel
Shorty headers. summit racing


DRIVETRAIN

Aluminum driveshaft
10 bolt rear-end mini spool w/ 4.10 gears
th 350 w/shift kit
tires are going to be 28 tall 10 wide 15in rim

So what do you guys think of this set up. How much hp to the flywheel and how much to the wheels.
Thanks
Mike

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Too much head; not enough cam (you're not going to win races with old generic copies of copies of old generic cams); too much intake; not enough crank; never heard of that brans of pistons but it sounds kind of "rebuilder"-like.

Scale back the heads to 200cc ABSOLUTE MAX; get a MODERN cam, preferably a roller, with low-mid 230s of duration and closer to .600" lift; Performer RPM; get SOME KIND of at least a cast steel crank; use real racing pistons with the CORRECT compression height such as JE, Wiseco, SRP, etc.

Pay less attention to the brand names and stuff like that, and more attention to details. Zero-decking the block to the rotating assembly is HUGE, worth every penny. Use a roller block so you can use factory roller stuff to help keep costs down. Match your parts better. Heads and intakes that will COST power at all RPMS below 6000 and don't start showing real GAINS until 7000, don't belong in the same engine with generic street cams, low street compression, stock cranks, and stock rods.

mlaudon

Well what do other people think about this set up???

Apeiron

Exactly what sofa said.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

What do you plan on using the engine for and what's your budget? BTW, where you located in Wisconsin?

mlaudon

Well i want the car to be a strip car. And i live in Fort Atkinson
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I dont have a budget. It will just pro long the project and how long i want to wait. Im not rich just finished high school and im 19 now so.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Like the guys above said. Build the bottom end right. Maybe even look into getting an LSx engine. You can find the 6L iron truck engines for really cheap and they'll make awesome power with G92 heads (I've seen 550hp in a build).

mlaudon

Well lets say whta if i get 190cc intake heads with a different intake. how would that be.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

That would be better.

But if it's a strip car, no street usage, stick with the big heads. But use a big cam to match it. Higher compression also, hyper pistons at least. Better rods and crank. Balance the engine.

I used enginetech rings on my engine. They're yer basic cheapo-rebuilder parts. The pistons you've got are cast? Go hyper.

The cam is generic. Go solid flat tappet, or solid roller if you're made of money.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

I don't know how much you plan on spending but it's going to be a lot. I know for me, I would not want to start a 5 year project because I don't have enough money.

If I were you, I'd go with a 383 or 400 with vortec heads. You can get into the 12's with that, and if you spray into the 11's. That's not bad. Plus it'd be streetable. But that's just my 2cents

mlaudon

Ok im sorry for saying strip car it is going to be strip and street. Im not trying to go crazy but i want it to be in the 11 ruf. And i forgot to tell you guys it is going to have a 150 shoot on top of that. And i not going to stroke it because i have the crank and rods, pistons, and cam but i personley think a 512/512 with 195 cc intake heads would be pretty good. Plus get the block decked and all ballanced. So anymore thoughts go for it im all up for listening.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Lift doesn't really give enough info on what the cam is. Give us a part number for that cam.

Side thoughts:
-pick a split pattern cam if you're fairly sure you'll use nitrous. It really helps nitrous
-gap your rings WIDE for nitrous. Burning a liter of oil between oil changes is a lot cheaper than replacing pistons when you lift off the ring land.

You'll need the 150 shot to get into the 11's I think. 11's on a NA 350 is kinda hard to do, unless you REALLY know what you're doing. That's not an insult, just that there are a very limited number of people on this board that can make that claim.

mlaudon

Ok so what do you need to know about the cam. Because it is a 480/480 but when you put 1.6 rockers on its higher. A friend and i did that whole math thing to come up with 512/512. So how does that work with the dur on the cam. I have a n20 kit just bought it. I was planing on gaping the rings a lot too. I cant get the info on the cam because im at work. but what did you think of the set up i just told you in my last reply. and ill be happy with high 11s too. or loww 12s.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What experience do you have racing and/or buildong motors?

How are you going to get this car that light?

Will it be licensed and driven on the street?

As we all know, how much HP somebody tells you on the Internet that your parts list will make, is (a) usually worng in the first place, and (b) bears little relation to how fast the car will actually go. Lots of things besides the parts list for the engine determine that.

What do you plan on doing to the suspension of this car to get it to hook up? Keeping in mind that .1 sec at 60' usually translates to somewhere between .15 and .2 at the big end, big talk about running 11s is just that - talk - if the car doesn't hook and leave.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Good Lord, what the hell is a liter!?
Haha.

Here's my suggestion. Find a running 350 or 400.
Pull it. Do some research. Put vortec heads and a proper cam in it. Get a carb and intake. Put it in your car. Start from there. I don't mean to talk so much about vortec heads, but really, they are the best for the money. You can get a set for 300 bucks.

By all means this isn't the cheapest way of doing things when you add up your spendings over a long period of time, but it's the best way to learn. Don't start modding your car until you seriously know you need it. Don't just throw together a 10 second car. Start in the 14's and 13's. Get to the track, learn what people are doing. Get the most out of your combo. Go from there.

327_TPI_77_Maro

iTrader: (8)

If that cam is the "classic" 230/230 @0.05 duration, 280 adv duration, 0.480" single pattern cam, that is a 40 year old grind. it's probably on a 108 or 110 LSA. There are much, much better choices for a cam nowadays. That cam will be soft and run dirty down low. It has slow lazy ramps. WIth your heads, you want a lot more lift. You are way overheaded for that setup.

mlaudon

ok well i see where everyone is coming from start high go small. With the times. Well what do the cars weight stock for a 89 w/the 305 with driver im 180lbs so. The car is going to be licensed and driven on the road but not much at all. As for suspension i plan on doing upgrades along the way to see what i need to do to make it hook better. I havent done a lot of racing with my car but ive driven friends cars on the race tracks. I guess im going to use 195cc heads and im goign to end up buying a new cam what size for it.. Any thoughts.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Power is made by the induction system (heads, cam, intake, exhaust). It is strongly affected by compression, and by various other properties of the bottom end.

People who WIN have well-matched combos. Their parts work together all designed to produce the same results; and that designed result is consistent with the requirements of the activity they're in. A part that's out of line with the other parts or out of line with the overall purpose, HURTS you, no matter how romantic the brand name or how much it cost. In fact, it may hurt you BY costing alot, since it will prevent you from having a little extra money to spend wherever it counts the most when you discover you need it.

The combo includes every part of the motor, but extends BEYOND the motor as well. It includes gearing, traction, torque converter, weight, and above all, SUSPENSION SETUP. Anybody that thinks they're going to take one of these cars with a stock suspension and run 11s, is going to get a RUDE shock. Making the car hook up, not absorb energy into places it doesn't need to go like the rear springs compressing and the suspension components bending and the chassis flexing (which not only slows the car down because that energy isn't accelerating the car, but also destabilizes it, because stored energy has a tendency to re-appear), and DO IT THE SAME EVERY TIME, are the keys to winning.

Survival is the main thing that's required of a bottom end. Racing is NOT MUCH FUN when you break big expensive parts often.

Besides the bottom end, the next most fragile part of the motor, is the VALVE TRAIN. Do not skimp here. Especially, valve springs and their associated hardware.

For a good successful fun inexpensive first-time learning experience, start out with a moderate amount of motor, and learn how to make the CAR go as fast as it possibly can, how to drive it, and most of all, HOW RACING WORKS. There's ALOT more to it than just jamming the biggest motor you can between the fenders, and hoping for the best. People who take that approach spend ALOT of money, don't win, don't have fun, break alot of parts, and don't stay in the hobby for very long.

I'd suggest building a decent short block, but not overkill; and PAY ATTENTION TO THE DETAILS, because that's where it's won or lost. You'd be AMAZED at people with impressive parts lists that get put on the trailer by people with a quarter the money tied up in their cars, but who did it SMART and CAREFULLY.

Watch the people at your track THAT WIN; and make note of what they're running and how they're doing it. You'll see right away why your list is fundamentally flawed.

Now my fingers are tired.

mlaudon

Well thank you sofakindom for all the help and the others i knmow i still have alot of work to do. Also a lot of ing to do.

Travis&camaro

sound's like a good set up for your first engine. If you havent baught the 210 heads yet you should think about 4 valave chavy heads with a nice aftermarket cam with a good lift that would make you engine scream...

327_TPI_77_Maro

iTrader: (8)

4 valve heads? LOL

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Internet Message Boards:
Because none of us alone is as dumb as all of us together.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I was going to ask, "where do you get 4 valve SBC heads?!?"
I thought I heard of those once upon a time, but they were a super expensive prototype. Not sure if that actually did come to fruition or not. But i'm guessing not...

mlaudon

Well Travis&Camaro is right they make them but i forgot who makes them. i know it would be sweet to get them but there a lot of money.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3D10%26hl%3Den

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Right... they are "made" by a company named Arao Engineering, which acquired the design from Dominion. I have no clue who these people are; could be the same company for all I know, just with a different name.



Note the amount of dust built up on this "project". Any idea why that might be??

I can think of better ways to "park" about $12,000, than this. Especially since you can just go to the junkyard and buy a LSx motor, and make more power for less money, less risk of needing some one stupid little part that's on back-order for the next .... forever (because the company that "made" it went out of business or is waiting to sell "another" set to the next "greater fool" and won't do a production run to make your ONE, or something), and a AHELLUVALOT less trouble.

mlaudon

So is that one of your cars....looks like a long projects.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No, not one of mine... I'd like to think I have better sense than that. But maybe I don't though, but I just display it in other ways. I'm not even sure exactly whose it is, it belongs to a friend of a friend. I DO know however, that the owner of that car wishes with all his heart he'd never bought those heads. : I somehow doubt that they will ever see combustion.

mlaudon

Well do you know what he needs to get it running?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No. The pic is a couple of years old; I don't recall what he was hung up on.

It wasn't for lack of effort, IIRC. Or $$$$.... There was some piece he needed that he couldn't get.

Travis&camaro

Darn That he coudnt get the part.. I think these heads are very neat.. They advertise them in the back off car craft every month. but they are alot of money. Will the 210 intake cc aluminum heads run good if you run a bigger like 570 cam with 245 duration?