musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys, I'm new to this thread and it seems to be a pretty handy resource. So here's my scenario. I'm hoping to buy my first f-body sometime this summer. Not a bad ride for a high school kid eh? lol anyway I was wondering if there are any common problems that I need to worry about (i'm hoping to get one somewhere around the 84-86 range). And I have a pretty tight budget (less than 2 grand for now, but I'm gradually saving up). My dream car would be a camaro/firebird with t-tops, 5 speed, and v8. How do the 305 TPI's and TBI's and 4 bbl's compare? I would like something that is decently fast (something to embarrass ricers at red lights, etc.). Doesn't need to be crazy though, I'll probably gradually work on it, i.e. cams (how much power gain can I expect from cams?). And I don't mind the car requiring some work (but I want a solid driveable drivetrain), considering my price range. And if you guys know of anything similar to what I mentioned for sale in the Connecticut area, please let me know! Sorry if this is the wrong board for this thread, I couldn't find anything else that seems to fit better. Thanks!

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Oh and I forgot to add, I saw this camaro on craigslist (i saw it in person too). I believe it was an 88 Z28 (a little too "new" for me but nice nonetheless). Hopefully I'll find the link soon. Anyway, the guy was selling it for pretty cheap and it had a 350 TPI engine with 305 heads (auto trans of course). Uh... does that work? I saw the car run and it seemed fine, but I was wondering if it will actually last, or if the extra compression will ruin it prematurely. Any ideas?

And are the aftermarket engine chips/programmers useful at all?

kkingsrulee

Well you will probably have to make a few compromises here and there in order to get what you want on a tight budget like that.

I wanted a newer third gen, 90+ because I liked the ground effects better than the older ones, I wanted a five speed, I wanted a v8, and I wanted t tops. I didn't really care about the induction.

I got 3/4. I got a '90 RS, TBI 305, t5 transmission. No t-tops. That's where I made my compromise.

Now, TPI usually gets the most power, you can compare a 305 TPI to a 305 TBI and I'm pretty sure the weakness with the 305 lies in the swirl port heads and the restrictive intake. The 350 TPI was the fastest thirdgen motor you could get, they only made 350 TBI's for trucks and some newer (90+ impalas I believe).

But what you also need to take into consideration is that GM never paired a 350 with a manual transmission for it's third gen camaro. So you'll have to either stick with the 305 and get your manual tranny or settle for an automatic with a 350, you make the decision.

Also, I think a t-top camaro will be difficult to find on your budget, just make compromises and find what you want.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Yup I know that the 350s were made with autos only from the factory. Thanks for the tips. I'm just wondering if that Z28 with the 350 I saw will last with the 305 heads. Yeah I know, I'll probably have to make compromises (that's why I said "dream car"), but you never know, I've seen some sweet deals before (back when I had no money ). I'm looking at this 86 with a 5-speed and t-tops, but it has the 2.8, $1300 obo with 120k miles. I'm a little apprehensive about it since I heard that the 3rd gen v6's suck. But my dad owned an 85 (sold it before I was even born ) with a 2.8 and he said it was decent, I'd like some more opinions though. I know this is off-topic (please don't delete) but how are the 4th gen v6's mated to 5-speeds?

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Oh and out of curiosity, about how much did you pay for your 90 RS?

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Oh and I don't mind getting a car that requires some work (ie minor rust, paint job, interior pieces, etc.), I just want it to be driveable.

gcgarner

I'd say for that kind of budget you could get a LG4 or L03 car with T-Tops. Maybe even a TPI car if you find someone that needs to sell.

My dad has an '86 LG4 T-Top Trans Am. It has 99,000 miles on it. He paid $600 for it in 2006. I found a parts car in a local junk yard, paid the JY owner $250 and he let me strip it down. I swapped the entire interior out. I bought him 4 wheel centers for Christmas this past year. It's currently in the body shop for paint. Body work and paint is running him $1,250. Oh ... and he had to have a fuel pump put on it a few weeks ago. In other words, he (and I) have about $2200 in the entire car. When it gets back from paint next week, it is going to be NICE!!

But you'd better buy now. They're not getting any cheaper. They're out there if you look hard enough.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Sweet deal! OK I know the difference and the mechanics behind the TPI's, TBI's, and 4 bbls, but what are LG4 and L03 cars?

7SEALS

just prowl your local newspaper and craigslist. I was on craigslist every 20 minutes or so on my cell phone constantly looking. Make sure that you don't jump on the first one you find. I looked at a lot of different third gens before I settled with my 92. I found it in the newspaper. I went and looked at it and drove it. They wanted $2,000 firm. I ended up talking them down to $1,600 and bought it for that. 25th anniversary heritage package RS v6 red with black racing stripes from the factory with the power windows/power locks/power hatch. I obviously didn't want the v6 but the car is getting a compelete motor/tranny/driveshaft/rearend/suspension/frame make over. The car is solid with brand new floors and the body is in very nice shape. Remember, find the one that draws to you the most. Don't jump on the first one.

gcgarner

OK, correct me if I'm wrong someone, but I'm 99.9% sure on all of these Third Gen V8s:

LG4 = 305 with Quadrajet 4 bbl carb.
L69 = 305 with Crossfire Injection
L03 = 305 with Throttle Body Injection (TBI)
LB9 = 305 with Tuned Port Injection (TPI)
L98 = 350 with Tuned Port Injection (TPI)

BigBadGTA

Ask your grand mother to loan you some money.

Blackdog36

iTrader: (3)

As mentioned above I think you should research the years and options to see what your "must have" priorities are. Are you set on 84-85 for a reason? An 89 would be five years newer than a 84 and most likely in better shape. I believe that Chevy started making much needed upgrades in 87 to little things that are important (internal door hardware,etc.) I recently purchased a 92 car. You will be surprised that there are still a lot of decent cars for sale. Many people are selling them since they don't want the upkeep or have more kids, etc. I had good luck using autos by aol website to look for cars. http://autos.aol.com/used Their website seems to search others ones too so you get a nice selection. Check local papers too. Don't be afraid of a little road trip. South Jersey/Philly is not too far from CT and you might find some good cars (rust free) down around there.

As you mention big ones would be to have a solid drive train and rust free body. Things to watch out for are rust free rocker panels (under doors), no oil & coolants all over the engine bay, no rough shifts, check metal body panels 1 inch away from seams with magnet (no bondo) especially the rear quarter panels, look under wheel wells as they should be in good shape. There is also a small hole under drivers side that you can see the floorpan sheet metal. I think this area will show rust early on. Also look at tires and brake pads. If they are worn or unsuitable you can use it as a bargain chip with seller to knock price down.

There are some good articles online for what to look at. It might be a good idea to go check out some cars nearby so you can get comforatble looking over a thirdgen. You can always tell the seller that you are not interested or car needs more work than you thought and walk away. Take your dad or friend along so you are more comforatble. Last thing, bring cash. Makes it a lot easier for seller to accept a low offer from you. I know you want one bad but don't rush it. Soon enough you will have one Keep us updated.
http://www.samarins.com/check/

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Garner: Thanks, that's a big help since those codes always confused me, LOL
BigBad: Good idea!

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

BlackDog: Thank you so much that was a big help. I would have never thought of those things. The reason I want an 84-86 f-body is because of emissions. I won't have to worry about em for the most part. I guess the newest I'd be willing to go would be an 89 (i'd have to double check CT emissions, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think cars that are 25 yrs old+ are completely exempt from emissions, and cars 20+yrs old are eligible for antique plates and emissions requirements are relaxed).

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

and 82-83 is just too old, and I heard that engines/transmissions were improved after that as well.

kkingsrulee

I paid 1,100 dollars. I bought it off of craigslist about a year and a half ago, I'm only 19 but I can honestly say it's the best money I've ever spent.

It's never broken down on me, I got a good deal, the previous owner didn't lie about anything, it's a great car, it has 220,000 miles on it, and it made it about 700 miles round trip from pasadena to oakland last december.

I would not suggest getting a v6, it might seem like a quick fix for your "Getting a camaro" problem, but in the long run you will probably regret not getting a v8.

Also, if you plan on getting a manual transmission I suggest getting an '89 or newer (I could have the years wrong, it was either '88 or '89) but they put the World Class t5 transmission in those cars either '88-'89 and later, which could take I believe either 30 or 50 more ft/lbs of torque.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Sweet deal, thanks Kkings. 220k with no problems huh? damn! So I'm guessing you guys think highly of high mileage f-bodies too?

kkingsrulee

I've heard that 305 motors go forever, it's very hard to kill them. But it all depends on what you want, you know? It's obvious that I don't plan on taking my car with the motor I have in it to the drag strip, it's just not realistic, perhaps after a 350 swap yes, but right now my car is just a daily driver, I put some headers on it and am in the middle of getting a catback for it, but this is mainly because it can swap right over to a 350 when I get one.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I heard similar things about GM engines in general (except for maybe the cross-fire injection 305s offered on the earlier 3rd gens, correct me if I'm wrong). I would only be driving this thing during nice weather, and I'll insure it only during the warmer months and leave it parked for the winter. How do you think your T-5 will handle the 350? And what kind are you getting? The 350 TPI, 4-bbl, etc?

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Oh and anybody know what I can expect from getting high-performance cams? As in power gains, emissions problems, etc.

gcgarner

Mine lasted 116k.

blue85305

friend of mine bought an 85 z28 for $800 several years ago, the odometer doesnt work so we have no idea how many miles are on it, but he beats the hell out of it everyday. the 305 will take alot of abuse. i agree with the above posters about looking around before you buy, i just bought my 84 for $500, already mildly modded too. just look for the good deals, don't make an impulse buy, and you'll find something.

chas0218

check the oil and make sure its not milky and is somewhat cleaner (not chunky) also look for little copper colored flakes in the oil if u need to use a white rag and check the rag. The flakes are clues to bad bearings (rod or main) and the milky colored oil means there is a coolant leak into the engine and the bearings are going to need replacing. check for visual leaks in a driveway or down the side of the engine. Umm look at the rear end and see if there are any large cracks around the rear end housing or on the axel tubes.

that is all i can think of right now but the main thing to look for is the oil.

the extra compression wont hurt anything but will give it more power.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Thanks guys for the help, I really appreciate it. Any idea on cams though? power gains, emission problems, etc?

Blackdog36

iTrader: (3)

There are a few different types of 305's throughout the years. Once you get a car you can find out what engine upgrades will make some nice gains. There are a lot of posts on this site about getting more performance from a 305 since that engine was more prevalent in Camaros than the 350. I believe some of the base 305's have small cams that a swap would help out. Of course changing the intake, heads, headers and exhaust will give you the most performance for an engine. This site is a great resource in that many people have gone through the upgrade process and found out what works best. You can see how much performance improvement a part yields plus it's price. I would get a good plan together of what you wanted to do overall and then attack it piece by piece. Here are some links that may help you regarding engines.

http://www.camarotech.com/ThirdGenDescription.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...e-options.html

http://www.camaro3rdgen.20m.com/cams.html

Regarding emissions, most upgrade parts comply with them (EGR on intakes). I believe once you start searching for maximum HP out of every part, that is where parts are not emission legal. For a good street driver likes yours I would not be worried about emissions. If it were to be a strip car then yah. I think depending on how you register the car can make you exempt from emissions but you will have restrictions (can't drive over 2,500 miles in a year or something like that). I am not too sure about this as each state is different. Maybe you could talk to local mechanics and see what they say about it.

Formula_Wolf

I bought my 89 Firebird Formula for 900 bucks but the engine was shot. I found a wrecked camaro with a rebuilt motor for 500 bucks. I think less than 100 dollars went to rental equipment to pull the engine and various stuff like spark plugs, new wires, oil, trans fluid... got it all together for 1500 dollars. That was 9 years ago when I just turned 19 and I still have the same car! Its now my 2nt car. The 305 in it really isnt to bad and easily rapes ricers, ha a soccer mom van is faster than ricers lol. Still I always wanted a 350 while driving the 305 so.. just keep looking, dont put all your eggs in one basket. I'm sure you can find a t-top car from someone with a 350 TPI for 2 grand. I sure wouldn't sell it for that but some ppl are hurting for rent money or whatever. Just keep in mind... TPI parts are expensive, if you have to replace anything that went bad your gonna pay more for that then for a tbi... I'd say it would be worth it though. Dont get anything that is not a V8!!!

Unholy 89

not sure where you are located musclecar, but the atlanta craigslist usually has some decent 3gens for cheap.

novafirebirdguy

Just look around for a while and you'll find something cheap. When I bought my Firebird I had two choices. An 83 S/E LG4, manual, t-tops with an engine that needed to be "refreshed," the engine wasn't bad but it needed a major tune-up and the carb needed to be rebuilt. The interior was shot but the body was decent. It was $300. The second choice (the one I bought) is a 90 Formula 305 TBI, Auto, T-tops decent interior, ok body, I had to override the vats system to get it to run but it runs good. I only paid $475 for it but I regret it as the floors turned out to be bad on this car (PO lied), but hey it was cheap enough.

So number one, check the floor pans, period. If they're bad you don't want the car. No if, ands, or buts, you don't want it. A mild performance cam will do you some good, but the heads are fairly restrictive and will need to be replaced if you want to really open things up. The exhaust system sucks to. Before changing the cam I'd get headers and a 3" exhaust.
Alex