Matt1821

Hey everyone, Got another one for ya! The other night I was out at hooters for a friends B-day, the bird was runnin great. I get home, and my girlfriend says she wants ice cream, so we get into my car, turn the key, and it just keeps crankin. Sounds like its about to catch but doesnt. Basically, we ended up takin her car to dairy queen

So far, my diagnosis is that im not getting fuel, when I crank the engine fuel doesnt spray out of the injectors. My injectors are new, fuel pumps new, fp relay just replaced. If I spray Ether into the tbi it starts right up n then dies. SO, That rules out spark. Im looking for posibilities for this situation. So any advice or ideas are appreciated.

Thanks in advance everyone, Matt

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Heard of VATS?

https://www.thirdgen.org/vats_passkey_system

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...6154-vats.html

Matt1821

I read everything you sent me, and im convinced that might be the problem. I replaced the old steering collomn a couple monthes ago, and swapped out the key cylinder from the old one to the new one. I used butt-connectors on all the wires. When i went to start it the other night i saw a spark from the inside where all those wires happen to be, im wondering if maybe one or two may have come loose and shorted out on each other. All of this is giving me a headache. . . Someone HELP!

Matt1821

still havent figured it out. Im surprised, nobody's got an ideas? Usually id have 20 replies by now, and at least a couple crazys suggestin i check my compression.

Matt1821

UPDATE:
So I replaced the fuel pressure regulator and all the fuses under The dash, and its still not working. I think its an injector circuit problem. Are the injectors wired to the steering column in any way?

jerrya27

91 rs is doing this same thing but mine wont crank with the key only by jumping the purple saftey neutral wire

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

have you checked if ur injectors wires are getting any pulse while cranking it? usually the vats throws a code and usually disables the starter unless the starter relay has been bypassed, there's two fuses for the injectors check them if u haven't done so.
one more Q? do u hear the fuel pump priming when u turn the ignition on?

Matt1821

I'm gonna use a test light and back probe the injector wires while my buddy cranks the motor to see if I'm getting a pulse to them tomorrow. I replaced all the fuses under the steering wheel compartment but I heard there are a couple more fuses in the engine bay? If so, where are they? And I can hear the fuel pump prime everytime I turn the key. I know the pump is good for sure. The problem has to be somewhere in or around the tbi. I opened up the rails and fuel was during out. So I know there's fuel pumping just not coming out.

Il also check for codes tomorrow, but I don't think there are any.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

IF you read that first link I posted you will note the VATS module reads the resistor pellet that is in the key and if it is correct , the VATS module allows the starter to turn and the injectors pulse

The fact your engine cranks means the module is reading the resistor correctly ( unless the starter relay has been bypassed) but the VATS module is not sending the fuel enable signal to the computer.
Could be faulty module , could be broken wire between module and computer

Need a special injector test light called a noid light.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Vats has two parts;fuel and starter
several on here recently have had problems where VATS is reading the key correctly but the fuel enable part of the module is not working so they have a crank / no fire cond

Matt1821

so your saying it could be my ecm? I thought that if it was the VATS that the security light would come on?
I could really use a wiring diagram from the steering collomn to the ecm to the injectors.
Like i said, I saw a spark from inside the steering colomn, and im wondering if that spark came from a broken wire that may go to the injectors or ecm/module

jerrya27

mine is doing nearly the same thing can im trying to find the ecm and wires for it my self

Matt1821

I found some shotty wires that lead into a connector attached to the steering column, they were a little broken so I'm hoping when I replace those it will cure my problems...

Matt1821

UPDATE
Fixed all the wiring but still won't start. I hooked up a test light to the injectors and found that while the key is ON and the engine cranking they both have constant power to them, it did NOT blink intermittently like it should. What's going on here?

Matt1821

I also have no codes besides an egr code. 54 I think

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

are u sure? code 54 is fuel pump related (low voltage) with this the car will crank but no start, check the codes again.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Where did you hook the light up to ? , injectors have constant 12V on one side from the fuse

You have no injector pulse.Vats may not be supplying fuel enable signal to ECM or module in dist not giving cranking signal to ECM .
Do you have spark?

Matt1821

I checked for codes again, and there were none. I guess it was erased when I checked them last time.

Matt1821

There's two wires that go into each connector for each seperate injector. I quickly probed one wire on one connector, cranked the engine and the light stayed on constantly, never blinked. I did the same on the other connector and got the same results. I DID NOT CHECK BOTH WIRES ON EACH CONNECTOR. I was already late for work so I only had a little time to check it out.

How can I check if I have spark without ZAPPING myself?

-Matt

Matt1821

Update:
Tested the battery and got 11.6V, its low because every time I crank it I lose more and more power... so now I need to get it charged so I can test the injectors. I might have to take it into the GM dealer if i dont get the problem taken care of soon.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

You NEED a " noid" light to test injectors , can be loaned from Autozone or similar

Put tongue on end of spark wire

Remove a plug wire , put an old , good spark plug in the boot end and sit plug on the block / head / intake somewhere.
Should see spark at plug gap when cranking

Matt1821

I'm taking it into the dealer today to see whats wrong with it. Any guesses?!

whiteboycv67

if you found bad wires in steering column id bet its the ign switch not the the tumbler but the electronic switch itself id replace it first if it doesnt work then it may have burnt something out from shorting but if the batt isnt dying overnight then its not got a constant short if the butt connectors under the dash were sparking theres a good chance your not making proper connection thus code 54 low voltage to fuel pump if theres not enough voltage to fuel system injectors will not spray

whiteboycv67

i could walk you through fixing it yourself if you dont want to spend all that money at the dealer

Matt1821

Well, just got off the phone with the GM dealer. He said it was the distributor. I didnt think the distributor could effect my fuel injectors though?

So how difficult is it to replace this bad boy? and how much am i lookin to spend?

I know for a fact that i dont have a wrench that can get to the bolt on the distributor. Its in an odd placement where i would have to bend one of my wrenches to get to it.

Dont they sell like a flex head wrench or an adjustable one that can be made into an L shape wrench?

Matt1821

Also, Should i buy a performance distributor or just OEM?
Where should I buy it from?
Jerry (GM dealer) said it was my cap, rotor, and coil.
He must be crazy because he wanted me to pay him $789.95 to replace it.

Matt1821

Ive been looking around at distributors and found a nice MSD ingnition distributor for $315.00. It looks really nice, but a little too pricey and I dont have the time for shipping anyway. I need it as soon as possible. I really dont want to get one from auto zone or o'reillys, i know there cheap (like 100 bucks) but, i know "you get what you pay for" and i want something thats gonna last. SO what should i get and where, and for how much. LET ME KNOW
or do you think i should just go with autozone. . .

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

Did you ever get this problem figured out?