robster186

i have to replace my steering column. The current one is Toast. The current one is not letting it engage the ignition switch. I recently purchased the vehicle, and it is apparent the PO had an issue and some dome creative work to this one ( Like destroying it). I can get another one from the Pick A Part, but not sure how to remove the column. Please help

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

There's 1 bolt you'll need to undo in the engine compartment. It goes in the coupler joint that hooks the column to the steering box shaft (I think it's 11 or 12 mm). Inside the car there's 4 10 mm bolts that go in the firewall right at the base of the column that need to be removed. These hold the baseplate of the column to the firewall. Undo the plastic cover piece that goes under the center of the column. It's attached with T15 torx screws. On a 90-92 car, you might also have to undo that pad, or knee bolster that's under there. It's also attached with torx bolts (think they're T25 or T30). Then if you look up towards the top part of the column under the dash, you'll see 2 big hex nuts with built-in washers. They're either 13 mm or 9/16. I think 13 mm if I remember right. Once you undo those, you should be able to drop the whole column downwards. Once you have it dropped, unplug all the wires that plug into the column (usually 2 plugs in the ignition switch, 1 for the high beams, 1 for the turn signal stalk, and 1 really small one for the 2 VATS wires that come out of the bottom of the column). Oh yeah, you'll probably also have a small plug for the airbag. Of course you can just dyke all the wires too since it's in a junkyard. The last thing is a cable that comes from the floor shifter and bolts to the column right around the ignition switch. It has 2 really small hex-headed bolts that attach it to the column. You can either undo those 2 bolts or just dyke the cable, since you'll have an intact one on your original column. Once you get all this stuff unhooked, you should be able to grab the steering wheel and yank backwards towards you, and the column should come out. If you can't get it to come out, you might have to take a large flathead screwdriver or pry bar and pry that steering shaft coupler joint apart a bit. There's a split in the coupler, that's where you need to pry it apart. I usually just yank really hard several times and they come out though. I've rarely had to pry apart the coupler joint. Btw, you might have to put your original ignition key cylinder in the new column if your VATS system is still working. You'll need your original key with the correct "pellet" embedded in it to get your car to crank over.

robster186

GREAT. Thank you very much. Turns out the PO did some really creative "short-bus" work on this column. The vats is definitely by-passed, just not sure if he did it properly yet. Probably not. The key does nto have the pellet. he apparently had changed it. But just in case, I bought a new key cylinder for non-chipped key. he had also removed the airbag steering wheel and put on an earlier model camaro steering wheel.i am starting to see why I got such a SMOKING deal on this car. I have already replaced the tank, fuel pump, TPS sensor, Ingnition Module, ingnition switch, the usual, plugs, wires, cap/rotor, waterpump, front brake hardware, master cylinder,all the O rings and seals for the fuyel rail and injectors, and the shift cable. The compression is really strong. i noticed that the fuel gage has the needle pegged all the way over. Do you know of a way to unpeg it?

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Unless you live in an area that car thefts are very common, it's actually a plus in my opinion that he bypassed the VATS, no matter how it was accomplished. Whenever you still have the VATS cylinder in the steering column, it's only a matter of time before those 2 skinny little wires that lead to the pellet reading module on the key cylinder end up breaking. The wires move and rotate some every time you turn the key cylinder over. My car left me stranded several times due to those stupid wires. I repaired them a couple of times, but the repair never lasted long. I finally removed the VATS cylinder from the column, repaired the wires one more time, then left it out of the column, plugged it back in with the original key in the cylinder, and just tucked it up under the dash on the driver's side. Then I got a normal, non-VATS cylinder and put that in the column. My VATS has never left me stranded again since! I always hated the look of the airbag steering wheels in 3rd gens, so I can't fault him for putting an older, non-airbag wheel in there either. Of course that's just my personal opinion on those. I understand some people actually like having the airbag there. As far as your fuel gauge staying pegged, 9 times out of 10 what causes it is a bad sending unit in the fuel tank. When the gauge sending unit goes bad, it causes a direct short and sends a full voltage signal to the gauge at all times. So chances are, the gauge in the dash is probably ok, it just reads full constantly due to the malfunctioning sending unit in the tank. You could try changing the dash gauge for starters, since it's a lot easier to do, but chances are you'll probably end up having to drop the fuel tank and replace the sending unit.

robster186

Great info. I ended up getting a new steering column yesterday( or should I say a new one from the Pick A Part) I will bypass teh VATS on this one. Even though I do live in Vegas. If someone really wants your ride, they will take it one way or another. I just replaced the tank and the fuel pump, so i guess I will try and pull the gauge and check it out. Looks like I have to pull the whole insturment cluster first. The PO did some interesting fixes, I am finding out. Whatever he did to the column, he broke it pretty good. Teh whole tilt section has allot of play. If you move it around just right, the car will start. Otherwise it is not engaging teh ignition system. i found SPEAKER WIRE running from under the column. i traced to through the engine compartment and down to the start relay. Obviously, I am correcting THAT move. So far on this car, I have replaced teh tank, fuel pump, filter, water pump, front brake hardware, thermostat, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, TPS sensor, all teh O rings and seals in the fuel rail and the o rings upper and lower on all the injectors, ignition modulator, egv valves,fuel pump regulator, shifter cable, 3" pipe from the Y-pipe back to a flowmaster.now the column. I know I need to replace the heater core, ( since he has it bypassed). So hopefully, this all puts it back in great running order and depandable.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah I'd say definitely try changing out the gauge in the dash first since that's FAR easier than replacing the sending unit in the tank. I have the dreadful feeling though that it's probably the sending unit, since when they malfunction it usually causes the gauge to be pegged. But who knows for sure, you may get really lucky and be able to cure it by changing the gauge. Btw, the tilt section of the steering column being really wobbly and loose is unfortunately an extremely common problem on almost all GM tilt columns. There's 4 bolts way down in the column that are supposed to keep the "tilt knuckle" joint tight. Those 4 bolts work themselves loose over the years and causes the problem yours has. It is fixable, but it requires tearing the column almost all the way down so you can gain access to those 4 bolts. Once you get to them, you put red (permanent) loctite on the 4 bolts, tighten the hell out of them, and then put everything back together again. I've repaired several of them over the years, and it's a moderate PITA to do. If your new column is nice and tight, the best way to avoid it getting loose is to figure out what position you prefer the tilt in, and then try not move it up and down all the time. Fat people and housewives seem to mess with the tilt setting every time they get in and out of their cars, and that greatly contributes to those bolts working their way loose. Also when you do adjust your tilt setting, grab hold of the wheel and slowly move it up or down. A lot of people just pull back on the lever and let the column go "pop!", which also causes it to get loose. The reason you had to move your old column around to get it to start is there's a long metal pushrod that goes from your key tumbler down through the column to the electrical ignition switch down near the base of the column. That pushrod moves a sliding piece inside the switch down there, and if it doesn't move that slider far enough, no contact is made to engage the starter relay. Sounds like you definitely got your work cut out for you with the new car, but it sounds like you're making great progress on it so far!

robster186

Good thing I'm not Fat and my wife wont drive it. I ended up changing the entire steering column out. I didnt want to take a chance on finding anymore CREATIVE

robster186

I didnt want to take a chance on finding anymore CREATIVE mechanic work on this issue from the SHORTBUS MECHANIC PO. I found that he had run SPEAKER WIRE from the column to the starter relay.WTF!!!. i also replaced the coil wire. Found the wire was broken inside the the insulated covering. Next is to replace the rear tranny seal. Been running on a 30 day temp tag from DMV. Have to go smog today. I think it will pass. You never know since it sat for 5 1/2 years in his garage. Evrything now seems to be running very SOLID now. Knock on Wood.

robster186

I really appreciate the help. Im used to old school restorations. The fun kind without computer systems and where you can climb in the engine compartment and go to town.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Lol, I can totally relate to what you're saying. I got my mechanic skills working on my 69 Camaro. Anytime I've finished a fairly big project on my 89, then go to do something on the 69, it tickles me to death how basic and simple the 69 is compared to the 89. In fact, my most recent resto project is a 66 Chevelle with the 230 straight six engine and a 3 on the tree (column) manual trans. Even my 69 Camaro looks complicated compared to the 66 Chevelle! And yeah, when I mentioned fat people and ignorant housewives, I was in no way implying that's the case in your situation. It's just common that those type of people can really screw up a nice car out of sheer ignorance. Fat people are hell on the seats in 3rd gens too! A good friend of mine has a 90 Iroc. He weighs in around 280 pounds or so, and he managed to break the power seat track where it bolts to the floor of the car. Had to have the brackets welded back together. Lol.

robster186

I just finished restoring a 54 chevy c-10 fro my daughter. That still has the original 230 straight 6. With all the coversions, upgrades, mods etc, it is still very easy to work on. I coverted it from 3 on teh tree to a turbo 350A/T on the floor. Aside from waiting 24 hours for teh new driveline, we amde the coversion in a day. Took no offense to the fat guy/ housewife comment. I have the same thoughts as you. My 91 5.7 seems to be running great now. had a little trouble gettign it to fire early saturday morning. Wouldnt fir. After a few minutes of trying. let it sit for about 5 minutes then it fired. Did the same thing to me this morning about 5:30am. Both mornings here in Vegas, temp was only about 49 degrees.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah those old straight sixes are amazing for their durability! The 230 in my 66 Chevelle had sat out in a field since 1997. All I did before attempting to start it up was change the oil/filter, spark plugs, fuel filter, and dumped out the 14 year old gas in the tank and put fresh gas in it. Didn't even touch the carb on it. It fired right up, choke actually worked, and once it was warmed up it went right down to a smooth, steady idle! As far as your 91 being hard to start in the morning, if you haven't already, you might want to put a fuel pressure gauge on the schrader valve that's on the fuel rail and see what kind of fuel pressure you're getting. I just noticed you said in an earlier reply that you put a new fuel pump in there, but it still wouldn't hurt to check the pressure and make sure it's up to par. Also ought to put a new fuel filter on it if you haven't already. Oh yeah, just remembered one other thing to check. When you first turn your key on do you hear the fuel pump run for 2 seconds to prime the system? If the fuel pump relay is messed up, the motor will crank without getting spark until the oil pressure comes up. When the fuel pump relay is bad, the oil pressure sensor acts as a back up system, and the distributor won't get a reference signal to send spark to the plugs until the oil pressure sensor gives the ECM the ok.

robster186

great info. i will check that out. i will put in a fuel pressure gauge.

dthomas8490

hey i was wondering how exactly did you remove the VATS from your car? im in the process of switching out steering columns and already have a Non-VATS cyliinder in the replacement steering column...PLUS, this isnt my first time hearing about how VATS easily going bad on people, and i really dont want that problem!! thanks

robster186

To remove VATS, you don't need to physically remove it from the vehicle. You can just disconnect it.

VATS controls two features in the car: cranking and fueling.
1) If you re-burn your PROM and delete VATS from the computer, the fueling will no longer be controlled by VATS.
2) To enable cranking without VATS, you will need to remove and bypass the VATS Starter Enable relay (behind driver side kick panel).

Also, remove the VATS fuse, otherwise the Security Indicator will be flashing (or lit) while driving.

This diagram will help you: http://www.austinthirdgen.org/mkport...m_pass-key.jpg

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

When I replaced my original L03 motor with a tuned-port 350 I had a custom PROM burned with the VATS disabled. However, long before that point, to get rid of any VATS problems I simply removed the VATS key cylinder from the column, replaced it with a standard, non-VATS cylinder, then took the original VATS key cylinder and shoved the VATS key back in it and simply plugged it back in while the cylinder was outside the column and just tucked it up under the driver side hush panel. This enabled everything to function properly without any PROM work or the purchase of a VATS bypass module, and eliminated the main reason they fail, which is the small wires leading to the VATS key cylinder ending up broken from the constant rotating of the key cylinder whenever you start the car. As to the above comment about having to bypass the starter enable relay, I never had to do that with either my 1st bypass method or even when I had it disabled in the PROM. Who knows, maybe it's because even after disabling VATS in the PROM I stlll left the original VATS cylinder plugged in up under the dash with the key in it. I'm not sure if the starter enable relay is controlled in the ECM or if the VATS key has to communicate with the VATS module that's located way up in the center/top portion of the dash near the firewall to enable that relay. Whatever the case I figured it isn't hurting anything to leave it plugged in up under the hush panel anyways.

Redroy@live.com

The steering column posts are from a while ago but I'm removing mine from my 87 irocz so I can get to the pivot bolt. wondering if any body knew about the pivot bolt for the brake and clutch assembly and the bushings, can you upgrade the bushings?

rusty vango

when the fuel gauge is pegged ,usually its because the ground wire is corroded. remove the left rear seat bottom and where the wires come thru the body. one of them grounds to the floor pan,clean it and you might be ok