I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
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I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Alright guys, I need serious help with my 1990 Camaro. I am losing my mind.
Short story, car was a V6, now a V8. Everything put in the car is factory equipment for engine and vehicle management. Running stock harness, stock computer, just have a custom memcal for the car. Nothing aftermarket in that department besides the tune from Scott Hansen.
Car is nearly 100% brand new.
Completely new ignition system
-Spark plugs
-Wires
-ignition coil
-ignition module
-distributor
-cap/rotor
Completely new fuel system
-lines
-filter
-pump
-relay
-pressure regulator
-injectors
Completely new sensors, I have replaced them all
Car has no codes with scan tool
All connections are good, grounds are good, everything has been tested and meets service manual specs.
Car will still not run.
The car will start right up and run, but only for about 10 seconds, then with no warning, shuts off. Try to crank again and it will not start. Wait about 30 seconds and repeat cycle.
I don't know what else to check on the car. I've been working on it for nearly 8 months now and I've replaced everything. The engine is new, trans is new, management systems parts are new. I'm stumped.
Only thing I can figure is that I need to talk to someone that has a lot of knowledge of these cars. I'm past the point of general vehicle knowledge at this point. On paper the car should run, what am I missing?!
Really hoping someone can help me out and shed some light on this. Its eating me alive...
Short story, car was a V6, now a V8. Everything put in the car is factory equipment for engine and vehicle management. Running stock harness, stock computer, just have a custom memcal for the car. Nothing aftermarket in that department besides the tune from Scott Hansen.
Car is nearly 100% brand new.
Completely new ignition system
-Spark plugs
-Wires
-ignition coil
-ignition module
-distributor
-cap/rotor
Completely new fuel system
-lines
-filter
-pump
-relay
-pressure regulator
-injectors
Completely new sensors, I have replaced them all
Car has no codes with scan tool
All connections are good, grounds are good, everything has been tested and meets service manual specs.
Car will still not run.
The car will start right up and run, but only for about 10 seconds, then with no warning, shuts off. Try to crank again and it will not start. Wait about 30 seconds and repeat cycle.
I don't know what else to check on the car. I've been working on it for nearly 8 months now and I've replaced everything. The engine is new, trans is new, management systems parts are new. I'm stumped.
Only thing I can figure is that I need to talk to someone that has a lot of knowledge of these cars. I'm past the point of general vehicle knowledge at this point. On paper the car should run, what am I missing?!
Really hoping someone can help me out and shed some light on this. Its eating me alive...
#2
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
My number is 5704471366 if anyone wants to text me. I need ideas. I've checked everything I can think of.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Did you have Scott remove VATS from the tune?
Security light staying lit on the dash?
Security light staying lit on the dash?
#4
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Vats is disabled and no codes present for a vats problem.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
If you really feel you have exhausted the easy options, I'd try putting a CAN bus analyzer on it and see what comes up.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
what is the fuel system pressure? starts but then dies, is the oil pressure switch cutting out the power to the pump?
have you tried straight battery power (jumpin fuel pump relay) to see if that helps?
have you tried straight battery power (jumpin fuel pump relay) to see if that helps?
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Everything has power and I've tested everything electrical that tells the computer to run the engine. All the sensors are new. All the relays are new. It has good fuel pressure, primes to 50psi and stays around there for the whole 10 seconds that it does run. The fuel pressure regulator is new. Brand new Bosch injectors and I even got a tester and tested them and they're good. Replaced the distributor because I found out a few months ago that the pick up coil was bad. All my grounds are secured and tight, vats is disabled and the computer gives me no codes. Valves are adjusted correctly, timing isn't perfect but close enough to run. I don't know what else to check.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
when it starts then dies, when it wont restart have you tried to spray some carb cleaner or something in the intake to see if it will 'run' off the spray? Showing it is fuel related?
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
can bus analyzer different from dummy bus reader. you will need to learn the codes as they pass and understand the sequence that should be there vs a bad sequence.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Plugs are new, good last time I checked them. Have tried different AC Delco's in it with the same results. It will only spit and sputter with ether. But always give it about 30 seconds and it will start right back up like there's nothing wrong, then die again.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Sounds like a fueling calibration error. The car doesn't start to calculate off the injector data until after startup.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Could it be something wrong with the tank not venting properly? I have two separate tunes for the car, and the other one doesn't work with it either.
Last edited by FireInMe17; 08-03-2016 at 12:47 AM.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Could it be something heating up that's not supposed to be and losing power?
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Only about 10 seconds at a time, runs the longest on initial start up.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
#19
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Is there anyone in my area?
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
If you could find someone with a spare ECM to try that would be kinda nice... Seem to be running out of options
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Only sputters. $250 cash to anyone who wants to come and get it running.
#23
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
I've got two computers, neither work, neither do either of the tunes that worked before.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
So if fueling sputters that means with fuel introduced there's a change right?
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
The same result can be achieved my tapping the gas as I did in the video. That video was right after it started and quit again. I've tested the injectors, they're new and they're good. Pressure is good and holds to prime and in the green when running. Regulator is new and obviously holds good pressure.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Tried them both. And both computers. One memcal has vats disabled, one does not. But the vats system is intact, and key remains the same.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Sounds funny but did you double check the injectors are connected to the correct point? batch fire may work shortly but then skip and cause a stall.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
How could they be connected any other way?
#30
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
They're circuits 467 and 468 if memory serves?
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
I suppose I'm not thinking clearly. Batch fire should also negate what I was thinking.
#32
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Maybe not enough heat sink compound on the ignition module is causing it to hear up and **** the car off and only when it cools back down it will start again?
#34
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Brand new...
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
The parts you listed as replaced, were they replaced to try to fix the problem or were they new to begin with? It's possible there is a faulty piece in there.
#36
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Wanted new ones anyways, the issues I was having drove me to buy them new sooner though.
Last edited by FireInMe17; 08-04-2016 at 02:26 AM.
#38
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
I'm going to readjust my valves and put more dielectric grease on the ignition module. Guy at work said if there isn't enough between they module and distributor it could cause a problem.
#39
Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
I've been fighting a hot start , no start for months, tried the hi flow pump no help. My truck is a total rebuild restomod. All new engine and all electrical. Converted from 85 MAF to 92 MAP for looks. Noid lights and spark showed great. WELL, I'm a 30 yr. ASE Master Tech with the conclusion "the injectors are new only 2300 miles" BAD diagnosis on my part. I was look'n at this site and bk2life on this site said something of spraying fuel.(a different thread) WELL it worked truck started hot and the injectors pick up...runs a little rough but livable. I think from the extra voltage of the charging system it caught up. My injectors read all the same at 16.2 ohms (spec is 15-16.5 ohms) when cold and it started great. Get it to operating temp about 200, shut it down and wait 10 minutes, it would sound like your video and no start til completely cold. The injectors hot read 6.2 -8 ohms on 4 of them. 17.2 ohms on the other 4. They shouldn't vary cold to hot more than 1 ohm. Don't use re-mans. I had GB reman injectors in it from Rock auto, JUNK. Bought Summit new and they read the same hot or cold at their spec 12.4 which they tell you. Hope this helps , the spray fuel helped me. THANKS bk2life
Last edited by Raysir; 08-04-2016 at 09:54 PM. Reason: wrong member name bk2life
#40
Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
I've been fighting a hot start , no start for months, tried the hi flow pump no help. My truck is a total rebuild restomod. All new engine and all electrical. Converted from 85 MAF to 92 MAP for looks. Noid lights and spark showed great. WELL, I'm a 30 yr. ASE Master Tech with the conclusion "the injectors are new only 2300 miles" BAD diagnosis on my part. I was look'n at this site and bd12 on this site said something of spraying fuel. WELL it worked truck started hot and the injectors pick up...runs a little rough but livable. I think from the extra voltage of the charging system it caught up. My injectors read all the same at 16.2 ohms (spec is 15-16.5 ohms) when cold and it started great. Get it to operating temp about 200, shut it down and wait 10 minutes, it would sound like your video and no start til completely cold. The injectors hot read 6.2 -8 ohms on 4 of them. 17.2 ohms on the other 4. They shouldn't vary cold to hot more than 1 ohm. Don't use re-mans. I had GB reman injectors in it from Rock auto, JUNK. Bought Summit new and they read the same hot or cold at their spec 12.4 which they tell you. Hope this helps , the spray fuel helped me.
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
#42
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Reset the timing yesterday, adjusted the valves, tested the injectors with the tester I got, they all worked. Still no luck.
#43
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
have some one spray a continuous stream of carb cleaner or starting fluid in the intake tube while you are cranking it. I have an LS swap I'm doing that the injectors are junk/plugged from sitting for a few years, that being said, I can make the engine run by spraying the fluid into it. What this does is positively show A, the engine runs, B the ignition is working, C eliminates the guesswork of the fuel system. which D proves there is no fuel getting in engine. ---if you do this, it will tell you all of the work you have done (valves/ignition grease/computer etc is working)
it takes less then a minute to do, and will give you undeniable answers to what you don't know.
do it, let us know. and then go from there.
--recap, spray a continuous stream of carb cleaner/brake cleaner/starting fluid into intake tube while someone cranks the engine over.
--if it runs, albeit not the best, but will run at apprx 1500/1800 rpms
--then you know without a doubt it is fuel related.
if it doesn't run, then you know its ignition, computer related.
it takes less then a minute to do, and will give you undeniable answers to what you don't know.
do it, let us know. and then go from there.
--recap, spray a continuous stream of carb cleaner/brake cleaner/starting fluid into intake tube while someone cranks the engine over.
--if it runs, albeit not the best, but will run at apprx 1500/1800 rpms
--then you know without a doubt it is fuel related.
if it doesn't run, then you know its ignition, computer related.
#44
Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
[QUOTE=FireInMe17;6065229] It has good fuel pressure, primes to 50psi and stays around there for the whole 10 seconds that it does run. The fuel pressure regulator is new. Brand new Bosch injectors and I even got a tester and tested them and they're good.
Your fuel pressure should still hold even after it quits for quite awhile. Should be at 41 psi at idle and hold steady. Sounds like it drops really fast when the car shuts down or the pressure gets used up as the pump shuts down and then quits. Have you run power directly to the pump side of the relay? It should run even with the car off. Also, you say you tested the injectors. What kind of tester? Using a noid light just shows that they are getting power from the computer. I had noid and mine were all out of specs on ohms and wouldn't start hot. Are you using a digital volt/ohm meter across the injector spades? Mine were re manufactured new injectors from Rock Auto/ GB Remanufacturing...JUNK. Less than 2K miles but it never ran right from the start. Disconnect the injector wires and stock injectors should all read 15-16.5 ohms hot or cold.
Your fuel pressure should still hold even after it quits for quite awhile. Should be at 41 psi at idle and hold steady. Sounds like it drops really fast when the car shuts down or the pressure gets used up as the pump shuts down and then quits. Have you run power directly to the pump side of the relay? It should run even with the car off. Also, you say you tested the injectors. What kind of tester? Using a noid light just shows that they are getting power from the computer. I had noid and mine were all out of specs on ohms and wouldn't start hot. Are you using a digital volt/ohm meter across the injector spades? Mine were re manufactured new injectors from Rock Auto/ GB Remanufacturing...JUNK. Less than 2K miles but it never ran right from the start. Disconnect the injector wires and stock injectors should all read 15-16.5 ohms hot or cold.
#45
Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
have some one spray a continuous stream of carb cleaner or starting fluid in the intake tube while you are cranking it. I have an LS swap I'm doing that the injectors are junk/plugged from sitting for a few years, that being said, I can make the engine run by spraying the fluid into it. What this does is positively show A, the engine runs, B the ignition is working, C eliminates the guesswork of the fuel system. which D proves there is no fuel getting in engine. ---if you do this, it will tell you all of the work you have done (valves/ignition grease/computer etc is working)
it takes less then a minute to do, and will give you undeniable answers to what you don't know.
do it, let us know. and then go from there.
--recap, spray a continuous stream of carb cleaner/brake cleaner/starting fluid into intake tube while someone cranks the engine over.
--if it runs, albeit not the best, but will run at apprx 1500/1800 rpms
--then you know without a doubt it is fuel related.
if it doesn't run, then you know its ignition, computer related.
it takes less then a minute to do, and will give you undeniable answers to what you don't know.
do it, let us know. and then go from there.
--recap, spray a continuous stream of carb cleaner/brake cleaner/starting fluid into intake tube while someone cranks the engine over.
--if it runs, albeit not the best, but will run at apprx 1500/1800 rpms
--then you know without a doubt it is fuel related.
if it doesn't run, then you know its ignition, computer related.
#46
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
I don't know what the deal is with my multimeters that I have, both of them don't read resistance on anything.
#47
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
This tip got me on the right track but I used a spray bottle with gasoline into the air intake. Then it would even start after hot soak with a few sprays into the PCV valve. It was junk injectors from day one 'new' reman injectors. I was fighting this for 6 months when hot...started right up after the tow truck got it home. I'd use gas rather than start fluid...they warn you can blow head gaskets with it since it really knocks.
#48
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Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Yeah and it didn't work. And then when I check the ignition system, it's working too, get great voltage from it. Fuel system gives good pressure and I've never seen it drop below the minimum 37psi that the engine needs to ide. No codes in the computer, vats system doesn't seem to be giving any issues about the engine swap.
The reason I started this thread was because I wanted technical information about how the management systems in the computer work and what the checks the computer is doing because I'm convinced the problem had something to do with something not checking out right in the computer. Whether that be with the tune, the wiring, a short somewhere causing it not to read something, a loss of data from a sensor, or something along those lines. Something to be said about the oil pressure switch or something wrong with a sensor voltage. The problem is beyond does it have spark or fuel, those are both there.
The reason I started this thread was because I wanted technical information about how the management systems in the computer work and what the checks the computer is doing because I'm convinced the problem had something to do with something not checking out right in the computer. Whether that be with the tune, the wiring, a short somewhere causing it not to read something, a loss of data from a sensor, or something along those lines. Something to be said about the oil pressure switch or something wrong with a sensor voltage. The problem is beyond does it have spark or fuel, those are both there.
Last edited by FireInMe17; 08-10-2016 at 12:09 AM.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Car: 1991 Firebird Formula
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.23
Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
Have you considered buying or building an ALDL cable to datalog with TunerPro RT? Then you should be able to at least know what the computer is seeing. I'm not an expert on these engines yet, but I'm usually available on Skype if you want to just shoot ideas back and forth. You might be able to find me by searching my username otherwise I can send you the contact info if you are interested. Sorry to hear it's giving you such a hard time .
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Hershey PA
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Car: '89 IROC Z
Engine: TPI 305
Transmission: T-5
Re: I need advanced technical knowledge of 90-92 Camaros
I read this thread kind of quickly, but it appears as though you still don't know whether you are lacking fuel or spark when it shuts off. So, try this. It's fast and free. Pull a connector off an injector and connect the noid light. Pull a spark plug wire off and connect a known good spark plug. Start it up and then as soon as it dies, have an assistant crank the starter and observe whether the injector isn't operating via the noid light or you aren't getting spark by observing the plug. Please report back. Sure sounds like computer (ECM) or VATS related.