MinionII

I have heard that the 5spd has the edge, as it weighs less and gets nearly the same power to the ground.

87irocz350

No dude. The L98 puts out hella torque. The 350 would diffentley have the advantage. Even though the 5spd car isnt a push over with a good driver. But I have the 5spd with the L98. Witch isnt as good as it sounds. The torque is eating my tranny alive. Too much power. Not enough money.

Synapsis

Ask our Moderator 5SIZ which is faster.

BadBowtie88

I'd say depends on the driver. Stick isn't worth crap if the guy can't drive it. I've yet to see a 305(stick or auto) Iroc around here break the 14's. Not saying it hasn't been done, I'm sure it has many times, just not around here.

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

or me for that matter...

91 LB9 gta t-5 g92...

flowmaster, k&n, plenum porting and driving the **** out of it...got a 14.12

unsuspecting LT1 t-56 drivers get a wake up...and ive pulled a 2000 t/a t-56 to 65...he was spinning and i hooked and booked

there no slouches with someone who can drive is behind the wheel..

my buddy in his 94 z a4 with true dual exhaust and bullet mufflers has his hands full up to 90 or so

MinionII

So chev kept the T5 out of the 350 cars due to both frame flex and a weak tranny...?

So assuming the TPI 305 5spd is power shifted, which would win in the 1/4 stock to stock?


I'm sure this question has been beaten to death, but I want to steer my bro in the right direction. I myself really like rowing through gears.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

They kept the T-5 away from the 350 because it would not last with all the TQ. (and maybe because with a good driven manual it might have been right with a Corvette) Being same year, same condition, the 350 Auto is definetly faster than a 305 5-Speed no doubt and has ALOT more capability for building. As to your flex question, it was a concern and in 90-92 they would not make an L98 car with T-Tops, but IMO thats BS because there were plenty of L98 T-Top cars that were and are fine. SFC's fix all BTW.

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

seeing as i ran a 14.12 with a muffler, k&n and some plenum porting..im going to have to disagree with that one...
these 2 cars are very close in power..no matter what anyone says..
and yes there is more power to be made in the L98

the l98 make 345 ft pounds but the slight torque advantage it has is negated by the drivline lose through the 700r4..like the first poster said..they put nearly the same power to the ground..which means its a drivers race...

and ive yet to run a L98 with the same mods as i that will give me a run..

basically what it boils down to is haw hard you can launch the 5 speed..
i pull consistan 1.9 60 fts..and 99%percent of the l98's i race are in the 2.1-2 range...3 tenths in the 60 is about 6 tenths in the 1/4...14.1 and a 14.6..theres the 60ft time right there..
ill pull him outta the hole and the gap doesnt increase or decrease
its all in the launch and super fast shifts

(edit)..gm didnt put the t-5 behind the l98 for 3 reasons...
during testing the motor was very lean under decel and downshifting
they didnt want to deal with numerour warranty issues
and yes a skilled driver would worry a vette owner

MdFormula350

stock for stock (excluding L1E) a 350 auto will beat a 305 5 speed, at least thats what i have seen to be the case.

Synapsis

My mods are exhaust (headers included), the EGR walls knocked out in the plenum, K&N's and MSD Ignition which is not a huge HP gain. And I run a 13.89 with a 2.1 60ft, and that number is mostly due to slicks suspension mods to handle the torque. And unmods, like a slipping 700R4 and a groaning posi.

I think at the track, a 350 auto would be faster because it's easier to launch and the power never leaves the ground with an auto. The torque makes for a good launch. On the street a 305 manual might be able to squeak ahead at the end all other things equal, because TPI was designed for the 305 and on a 350 it just falls asleep too early.

IROCThe5.7L

^ This man is correct. I understand there are M5 305 TPI's taking out L98's, but im sure there are L98s taking out the 5 speed 305's too. What you have to put into consideration is how old these cars are, not everyone runs the same.


Brand new, a 350 TPI would beat a 305 TPI stick.

MinionII

Do the 305 AND 350 TPI use the same intake?

That must really keep the power in the basement on the 350. But, power in the basement makes a really fun street car.

Dan88IrocZ

The 350 has more power and will win.

But, do a little cam swap in a 305 and you'll make laughing stock of stock L98's.

MinionII

Yes, the cams....The specs on the cams for the 305 seem awefully small. They are even smaller than a Mustang stock cam. When I bought my car it had a b303 cam in it 224/224 .480/.480 112lsa. Of course, on my stock heads and intake it murdered the low-mid range. I swapped the stocker 210/210 .444/.444 115.5lsa back in and gained all over the tack.

What kind of gains can be had by replacing just the cam in a 305TPI? Is the cam the first 'choke point'? I know my real choke point is the intake (now replaced, Edel Perf 5.0) and the heads (hope to go AFR or TFS).

The TPI heads must flow decent at low lifts to make the torque they do...

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

But then all you gotta do is meet an L98 with a cam and you lose. And there are some 350's here that ran 14.1 and 14.2 stock.

Actually the things you wanna do on a TPI car right away is the exhaust, the intake, the plenum, a good tune up, K&N's and just mess with things like timing and fuel pressure. You wanna throw on a complete better exhaust right away, then you wanna run ram air or even just cut the airboxes, then you wanna get down the restrictions in the actual plenum. IMO I'd wait on porting it until some more power was really being made or planned.

bigals87z28

Wow... lots of here.... Most G92 5spd 305's run low 14's. slowest one ive seen around here ran a 14.4. Thats a stock 305. This is gunna turn into another 305/350 battle so i better get out my 9 and load my clip. 305 5spd will keep up with 350's. driver is a big factor, but if both drivers are equally good, i will say that the 305 will win. Sorry, but i have seen more 305 5spd G92's running 14.2 then STOCK 350's. oh yea FYI, 305 with the 5spd got the 350's cam. the power was increased to 215, and then with the dual exhaust, and SD, 230. It would come down to driving skills. But 350s can be modded easily and with more potential. the difference between 350's and 305's 5spd's are injectors, knock sensor, and PROM and, of course, the bore size. Also depends on what year your talking about, but usualy its a tight race. 350 is the better choice because of its moddability for your little brother. Tell him hes welcome to join when he gets his car. We'll help him from there.

BadBowtie88

Yes MinionII, the 305 and the 350 run the exact same intake from the factory. Wow, bigals where do you run at? I've never seen a 305 run low 14's from the factory. The fastest I've ever even heard of was an '89 305 1LE. He went 13.89 with K&N's and a flowmaster. That's a little different though, as we all well know a 1LE is a badass car, 305 or 350. We just don't have many 305 runners around here. If the car had one, they just pull it and put in a rebuilt 350 or somethin they like better. It's just too easy to make power with a 350 compared to making power with a 305...

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

about time someone with some sence...my car ran a 14.6 box stock...down to the replacement paper filter...after those minor mods and me learing how to launch it it will run consistant 14.2's...put an L98 against me with identical mods..and i bet ill beat him...

stock vs stock its ALL in the driver..


BTW how many f-bods do u know with a flow, k&n and plenum porting..

Mad-Mic

215 hp running 14.2 bone stock?

bigals87z28

Slowest 305 5spd i saw was a 88 Iroc ran the 14.4. I never said that the early ones ran the 14.2. I mostly see 89-92 5spds at the track, and they all run in the bottom 14's. Any older then that, and they usualy arent carring the 305 anymore. Put any 5spd vs 350 of the same year, and i bet they will get the same time, if not 5spd getting a little more. I have seen 350s run low 14's, but only after a little mod to there car. Not saying anything against the 350, but they werent all big and bad like they should be stock. But if i was gunna have future plans of 350+hp N/A i would be swapping in a 350... which i plan on doing...

iroc22

This argument could go on forever.

Trap speeds are the real indications of power levels getting put to the ground.

Let's start comparing trap speeds of these two setups.

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

14.2 with a flowmaster, k&n and some plenum porting
that was at 96 and a half

box stock was 14.6 at 93...with me the driver not knowing how to launch it..figured that out after i put a few mods to it..

now CONSISTANT 14.2's with a best of 14.12



i blew up my lb9 powershifting it and missing the 2-3 one to many times....theres that sayin "you wont run that quick pass if your affraid to break it"

stock for stock: if the stick car is drivin like it should be then itll gett outta the hole faster, and assuming he can shift it fast enough the L98 car wont pass him....
this is from experiance people...ive raced atleast a dozen L98 cars..box stock and lightly modded (like me)...and 95% of the time ill pull um outta the hole and i wont get passed untill well over 100...and if he pulls me out, well ill be forced to beat on my tranny to make up the distance.

i dont like to ramble on like this, but it seems like the L98 cant be beat..and by no means am i bashing it..i wish my car had one...but the fact is, with a skilled driver they can be beat..and ive done it many times..

no matter how many times this subject comes up im always in there defending the 5 speed cars ....

ericmac450

Why are yall arguing about this??? Who cars if a 305 5 speed is faster than a 350 auto...all I know is that both of them stock are slower than a stock 4 cylinder NEON SRT4...yall quit arguing and start modding your cars so you can beat 4 cylinders

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Guys, come on now. The poster has come here to learn and is asking stock for stock which is better/faster and that is the 350 TPI Auto, without question. Why do you guys think the 350 was available?? Not to lose to the 305 5-Speed I can tell you that. Lets compare for a sec OK?? With both cars being base, the L98 Auto is 91lbs. heavier than the LB9 5-Speed, thats not much if every 100lbs. = .1 off of your time. Now lets take the supposed fastest examples of both cars, both being G92's and 92's. The L98 700R4 with 3.23's is rated at 245HP and 345TQ. The LB9 T-5 with 3.42's has 230HP and 300TQ. That is a real good TQ difference and not to mention 45 more ci. for building. (we all know which is the better block) Getting a good launch and letting the 700 shift itself should beat the LB9 and manually shifting it should make that margin bigger. As I said, year for year, same condition, an LB9 M5 G92 is gonna be slower than an L98 A4 G92. There are many variables that could lead to an L98 losing to an LB9, like condition, a car with 2.77's, no mods at all, or a non-knowing driver not getting traction with the Auto. I see guys saying that their stock 305 G92's ran a best of 14.40's-14.60's. Well, L98 G92's have run 14.10's-14.20's all stock, theres a difference. Are LB9 G92's to be taken lightly with the right driver, no. But the L98 G92 with the right driver has the advantage and should definetly have the win, close or not.

ChillPhatCat

Well... it goes like this... The 350 TPI is much more consistant... there are many 350 TPI's running mid to high 14's. The 305 TPI/5spd needs a reaallllY good driver to dip into the 14's and with some reeeeaaalllllyyy reeeeaaalllllyyy reeeeaaalllllyyy reeeeaaalllllyyy good driving mid 14's can be had.

So it depends on the driver, but the 350 will edge out the 305 almost every time.

Dan88IrocZ

Yeah, and do you realize we have 500 more lbs of car to haul?

It's the hp to weight ratio that kills us. Put that 4 banger turbo in our car and it won't do diddly-squat pushing around 3,400-3500 lbs.

215 bhp (160 kW) @ 5400 rpm (61.8 bhp/L)
245 lb.-ft. (332 N•m) @ 3200-4200 rpm

2939 lbs. (1333 kg).

Do some weight reduction mods to that car, drop 100 lbs and that mother f'cker will fly.

MinionII

Sorry for asking a risky question. I didn't want to start an arguement.


Would I be safe saying that assuming the car will be left stock, or any mods would leave the engine untouched, that they both would be the same amount of FUN on the street?
There is no track anywhere near us, so it really won't be run.

This car won't be modded for some time, and then, prehaps a 350 will be built and then dropped in.


How about other factors, like feul economy? Is the 350 much worse? How about handling/balance. Is my brother more likely to spin out with the 350 and auto up front?

thanks all

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Yes, and the handling and MPG are really the same. Any MPG difference is slight and they'll both hit .9-.92 G's on the skidpad. They are both fun to their owners obviously, but your 5.0 5-Speed LX's real competition on the street is the L98 Auto since they are the fastest model for each car. Ask the M*stang guys.

prOject-IrOc

ok..
i HAVE to put my 2 cents in. (even if i am new)

i have raced many, many camaros. i instantly look for that lil "5.7 Tuned Port Injection" emblem on the back. When i just see "Tuned Port Injection", i laugh to myself. i punch it, wave , then eat him up. i don't care if jeff gordon was driving, stock 305 has NEVER taken me. and...if you can get the 90 and newer, you get that wonderful 5 more hp than %85 of the 3rd gen f-body's you see on the street. i have nothing against th 305, the 5-speed must be tons of fun, fact of the matter is... the 350 IS better. Anyone who owns one will tell you. Most of the people who say different, haven't had the opportunity to drive the L98 version. (no offense to anyone)


Josh.

85TPI400

Oh my, this post is getting kind of ugly!
I think stock vs stock it would come down to the driver
for the most part because there is not much of a HP difference between the two.
Guys, For those saying an L98 would definitely win, keep in mind that some of the L98s came with 2.73 or 2.77 rears. I think most the LB9 5 speeds would eat them up. The downfall of some people driving a 5 speed is they are not skillfull enough to get a very good launch as you can easily sit there and burn tires forever. Which brings me to my next thought, if these cars were raced from the factory with drag slicks, I think it would be the 5 speed all the way.
Just my thoughts!

gmgod

Here's another thought, how many clutch dumps would the 5-speed handle with slicks? And do you really want to abuse a 305 5-speed car enough just to keep up with a stock L98? Remember the t-5 and the 10 bolts that come in these cars are made of peanut butter. If I were you I would look for a 90-92 L98 car, put headers and a cat back on it and run it like that untill it is worn out. Then rebuilt the engine you ALREADY HAVE sitting in your car to your liking.

12 Sec GTA

This thread is complete BS.

Post timeslips. Who gives a **** if Johnny ******* in Backwoods, Ohio runs a 14.2 @ 96.5 Unless I see a slip, that's a BS time/trap.

406TA

You think that's BS. Johnny's younger brother, Jimmy claims he broke into the 13's with his LB9 5 speed with 2 flat tires and a pile of manure in his trunk!

Dan88IrocZ

Hahaha, on the street, I'd take the 305 5 speed.

At the track, I'd take the L98 Auto.

But then again, on the street I have a blast jamming the hell out of my 700R4. 114,000 miles and still running strong!

The wiser investment is the L98 obviously, but each his own. Just do the mods to a 305, the right way and it won't take much work to touch 13's with a skilled 5 speed driver. Headers, cat-back, underdrive pullies, AFPR, cam & radials will put you there, if not extremely close.

I wasn't around for when my 305 was built, I bought it from a kid when he wrecked it at 6,000 miles on the clock, took it to the guy who built it, had him install it in my car. All I know is it has a crane cam & alittle head work, as best to my knowledge, and I was able to pull 2-3 car lengths on 3 seperate occasions on my buddies mint LS1 up to 60-65 mph before he pulled me alittle over a car length.

Mind you I only paid $1,000 for this motor too.

BadBowtie88

LMAO! Now that's funny. If you put slicks on a 305 5-spd, and drove it like you hated it, yeah it's possible. And I mean hated it. Powershift the sh*t out of and dumping it at about 3000RPM off the line. But, like already stated, who would want to abuse that thing that much just to keep up? You'll tear things up way too fast.

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

well thank you ...ill take that as a complement

seriously guys why would i commit myself to bashing if i was bullsh!ttin?

ill stand by what i said and will continue to do so untill im proven otherwise...(like 6 timislips being wrong)..

i have nothing against the L98..its a really strong motor and yes ive drivin one...it does feel like it pulls harder, but i like my 5 speed and its just as fast or faster then a l98

an l98 g92 vs a lb9 g92 will be a drivers race point blank...
yall can argue as long as u want...but like i said i speak from experiance..how many of u guys have a g92 Lb9?...how many g92 L98's have u raced?....ive raced a few g92 l98's plus the non g92's...granted the g92 is a lot more to handle, but if the 5 spd driver can drive then itll be a DRIVERS RACE..words are words..i have real life experiance with these 2 cars...no armchair racing for me

ive said my peace..im out of this one....bicker amongst yourselves..i gotta go build my motor

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

A race with an 88-89 5.0 5-Speed LX against an L98 G92 is a drivers race. They are both faster than the LB9 5-Speed G92's. If some of you think having 15 more HP and 45 more ft. lbs. of TQ doesn't matter, then I just don't know!! I've also never seen a test of these cars when they were new that the 5-Speed was faster than the 350.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

I've gotten a 14.9 from my 305 LG4 5 speed.
14.1 @ 99mph with a TPI setup on top of that LG4.

I'd say a 90-92 305 TPI Formula 5 speed would beat an 87-92 350 TPI Auto, especially if I were driving.

Here is a video from one of my slower runs with the LG4,
http://www.transamws6.com/video/Manny_vs_Charles.mpg