wheelies - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

abbydecamaroRS · 04-07-2009, 04:45 PM

Hey i was wondering if anyone has ever gotten a 1989 v6 camaro RS to wheelie. idk if thats possible. if it is let me know. oh if any of you know how much torque per pound it takes to get the front wheels off the ground that'd be great. oh and maybe if i need to make some upgrades that doesn't involve removing the engine that'd be great thanks!!

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91interceptorZ · 04-07-2009, 04:46 PM

you need a LOT of power to pull the tires off ground...I would say no way..

RS Reaper · 04-07-2009, 04:51 PM

, No way

91interceptorZ · 04-07-2009, 04:57 PM

I have 450 horse in my car and it doesn't even come close....my buddy's '94 has 500+ at the wheels....and then sprays 200 shot nitrous...on slicks....high stall...and it only comes up maybe an inch off the ground....v6 would break before that ever happened...maybe a turbo v6 car has the power...but you don't launch that hard with a turbo....anyways that's a ton of money....it's a lot of money to get a v8 to do it...

sailtexas186548 · 04-07-2009, 05:02 PM

you can set the suspension up to do it, the "wheelie" contest cars go all the way down the track. your car would be pretty useless afterwards, but if the ONLY thing you want to it do is pick up the hoops you COULD do it, strip the front of the car, pile weight in the back, sticky tires, a light driver, a BIG shot of n20 and some REALLY well set up weight transfer suspension. it would take lots of work/$$$ to make a useless car, but it COULD be done.

GICATA · 04-07-2009, 05:02 PM

Dear Clueless,

You will need a fully built rearend with low ratio gears, a built trans with brake, a high flash converter or a HD manual trans, some chassis work and slicks to get the traction and weight transfer and probably a couple (3 or 4) turbos on that V6 to get the front off the ground. If your car is full weight (no parts and insulation have been removed) then you may need upwards of 500 foot pounds at the wheels to get it up.

I suggest you do the simple mods to get into the 14s and enjoy pal.

//<86TA>\\ · 04-07-2009, 05:04 PM

best thread ever

91interceptorZ · 04-07-2009, 05:12 PM

got to love the v6 guys though.......they always have big dreams.

abbydecamaroRS · 04-07-2009, 07:48 PM

thank you to those who took this seriously i have a running v6 and an RS with no engine but it origonally had a v6. thanks for the help on what i need to put into it.

sailtexas186548 · 04-07-2009, 07:53 PM

i hope i came across as serious. dont be discouraged by starting with a v6. its a harder place to start from than a v8 car, but its a start. get the v6 in, im sure you'll learn alot about these cars just doing that, read, read, and read some more, make your car look good, fun, and enjoy it, then once you know what you REALLY want to do with your car (maybe still want to pull the front wheels?) swap to a v8 and work your way up from there.

abbydecamaroRS · 04-07-2009, 09:46 PM

thank you. haha. ur comment was fine but i hope my last message wasnt confuseing i have 2 3rd gen's one has a v6 in it and the other is without an engine. i was talking about GITACA or whatever his name is message.. a little uncalled for.

Tpx · 04-07-2009, 10:30 PM

For what it's worth, if you have stock suspension (most don't but I'm using it's specs as a reference) you can get some "one inch or less" of air under the front tires, but you're going to need to get really good traction from your wheels (hard to do on city asphalt), eliminate wheel hop (we're talking suspension mods), and have at least 600 ft/lbs of torque (not happening with a v6 unless a supercharger or 2 turbos are on it along with many go fast parts in it).

fly89gta · 04-07-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by //<86TA>\\

best thread ever

QFT

25thmustang · 04-08-2009, 07:59 AM

Why do you need 500-600 lb ft of torque to do this?

I know of cars weighing 3000 lbs with 300 lb ft pulling the tires a few inches in the air. Also know cars with well under 500 lb ft that ahng the tires until 2nd gear.

GICATA · 04-08-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abbydecamaroRS

thank you. haha. ur comment was fine but i hope my last message wasnt confuseing i have 2 3rd gen's one has a v6 in it and the other is without an engine. i was talking about GITACA or whatever his name is message.. a little uncalled for.

Don't cry...I was just messing with ya. If you've got the nads to try this with a V6 car, you've got to have the stones to take a little poking.
I didn't really dig in that hard, besides what I posted is what you'll need...and more.

Yes it's GICATA. Look at it. G (gee) I (I) C (see) A (a) T (Trans) A (Am)

Shagwell · 04-08-2009, 10:47 AM

There is a black formula on the forums with a v6 that carries the front end out pretty well. It's a turbo motor, and the entire combination is very well built.

It can be done with about any motor. Weight ratio, gearing and suspension tune play major roles in doing so. The thing is, you really don't want to pick the front end up much, if any. It's wasted momentum and energy. The more power you utilize to transfer weight/lift the front end, the less power you have moving the car forward.

91interceptorZ · 04-08-2009, 11:15 AM

but you'll probably need a 3.8 or buick GN motor to hold the power...a 2.8 or 3.1 or whatever size it is would snap a crankshaft right out of it with that power....the 3.8 is pretty much a 350 with two cylinders cut off...same rods, bearings, pistons, etc....and of course the buick GN motors are strong....my buddy runs 9's in his GN. but like said above....try stuff...read a lot...and learn....it takes years to build anything fast..unless you have MONEY...

Tpx · 04-08-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 25thmustang

Why do you need 500-600 lb ft of torque to do this?

I know of cars weighing 3000 lbs with 300 lb ft pulling the tires a few inches in the air. Also know cars with well under 500 lb ft that ahng the tires until 2nd gear.

You can't just consider two variables and say they are universal. Car weight and engine torque are not the only things I mentioned, and not the only factors by far.

Tpx · 04-08-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shagwell

The thing is, you really don't want to pick the front end up much, if any. It's wasted momentum and energy. The more power you utilize to transfer weight/lift the front end, the less power you have moving the car forward.

You're probably correct, but I've read somewhere that back in the day or even currently serious drag cars tune their cars to light a few inches so they can hook up better, the weight transfer gives them more traction. But hey I'm not picking on your statement just adding

25thmustang · 04-08-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tpx

You can't just consider two variables and say they are universal. Car weight and engine torque are not the only things I mentioned, and not the only factors by far.

Exactly my point, so I assume you were agreeing with me?

I am also speaking from cars I have personally pulled the tires on...

Your post said I NEED at least 600 lb ft to do this, mine said no I don't, because the other variables allowed me to not need it. My post was giving examples of not needing anywhere near 600 lb ft, yours seemed to mean he needs that or more to even think about doing it.

Maybe I read it wrong, and you meant he could do it with 300 lb ft and the right set up, but I'm not sure.

91interceptorZ · 04-08-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 25thmustang

Exactly my point, so I assume you were agreeing with me?

I am also speaking from cars I have personally pulled the tires on...

Your post said I NEED at least 600 lb ft to do this, mine said no I don't, because the other variables allowed me to not need it. My post was giving examples of not needing anywhere near 600 lb ft, yours seemed to mean he needs that or more to even think about doing it.

Maybe I read it wrong, and you meant he could do it with 300 lb ft and the right set up, but I'm not sure.

on the other hand you can have 1000hp and not pull a tire off the ground if set up correctly..

5678TA · 04-08-2009, 02:52 PM

traction and weight transfer.. if you have enough of both, you could make a 4banger, wheelie in a quadcab pickup..

just for reference.. in the last scene, you see that they load the bumper with weight to make the car wheelie.. car is on street tires, which means it has enough weight transfer to negate the traction issue..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARspNEioMts

Shagwell · 04-08-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tpx

You're probably correct, but I've read somewhere that back in the day or even currently serious drag cars tune their cars to light a few inches so they can hook up better, the weight transfer gives them more traction. But hey I'm not picking on your statement just adding

By having them pick up a little you can visually see that you're getting full weight transfer. The further up you get them, the more you weight you get on the tires, but you should not need more than what you get out of a few inches of lift. If you do your weight bias sucks, or you need to make mroe adjustments. - I'm with you on the picking.

Here's a thread started by the V6 car I was thinking of. GN motor indeed, but his sig pic is proof of the pudding.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/or...ew-wheels.html (new wheels!)

91interceptorZ · 04-08-2009, 03:47 PM

some people say if your doing a wheelie...your losing some speed...kinda makes sense...pro-street, top fuel, funny car...no wheelies if they can help it....instead of your tires rolling foward, the pinion is climing the ring gear and your not moving...

joeblow · 04-08-2009, 05:56 PM

...

firebird1992 · 04-10-2009, 05:06 AM

the only V6 i ever seen do a wheelie was a grand national but it was a drag monster thirdgens cars are to heavy and underpowered to even try

but on a funny note you can put some airbags or hydraulics on that v6 and a big shot of Nitrous pop that bad boy to 4500 rpm and then drop the back and pop the front wheels you do a little wheelie but......your going to need a new V6 lolol J/k

fly89gta · 04-10-2009, 09:03 AM

Proofreading for the win....

ljnowell · 04-11-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91interceptorZ

but you'll probably need a 3.8 or buick GN motor to hold the power...a 2.8 or 3.1 or whatever size it is would snap a crankshaft right out of it with that power....the 3.8 is pretty much a 350 with two cylinders cut off...same rods, bearings, pistons, etc....and of course the buick GN motors are strong....my buddy runs 9's in his GN. but like said above....try stuff...read a lot...and learn....it takes years to build anything fast..unless you have MONEY...

The only v that I know of that uses 350 pistons, rods, and bearings is a 4.3, not a 3.8. I dont think that it would necesarily be the tearing apart of cranks. There is a lot more at work than just the engine.

PS 9s in a GN is pretty extreme, Id like to see that car!

abbydecamaroRS · 04-12-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shagwell

By having them pick up a little you can visually see that you're getting full weight transfer. The further up you get them, the more you weight you get on the tires, but you should not need more than what you get out of a few inches of lift. If you do your weight bias sucks, or you need to make mroe adjustments. - I'm with you on the picking.

Here's a thread started by the V6 car I was thinking of. GN motor indeed, but his sig pic is proof of the pudding.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/or...ew-wheels.html (new wheels!)

yes i was thinking about working up a weightsystem on th inside where id take the passenger seat out and it would extend into the back trunk and set the weights on 2 parallel rails and use some serious hydralics to push theweights back as i take off. oh and while wheeling on a bike is fun and all i want to get the rush of getting a several 1000 lb car off the ground.

//<86TA>\\ · 04-12-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abbydecamaroRS

yes i was thinking about working up a weightsystem on th inside where id take the passenger seat out and it would extend into the back trunk and set the weights on 2 parallel rails and use some serious hydralics to push theweights back as i take off. oh and while wheeling on a bike is fun and all i want to get the rush of getting a several 1000 lb car off the ground.

no offence, but that is a horrible idea, and was suggested with a hint of sarcasm. Not to mention adding a ton of weight to the car, and making it a death trap if you hit anything.

Actually doing a wheel on the street is dangerous, and illegal. If you really have the need, get into drag racing and maybe int he future build a car that has the power to wheelie if you want it to.

fly89gta · 04-12-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abbydecamaroRS

yes i was thinking about working up a weightsystem on th inside where id take the passenger seat out and it would extend into the back trunk and set the weights on 2 parallel rails and use some serious hydralics to push theweights back as i take off. oh and while wheeling on a bike is fun and all i want to get the rush of getting a several 1000 lb car off the ground.

I'm at a loss for words here.

George · 04-12-2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abbydecamaroRS

Hey i was wondering if anyone has ever gotten a 1989 v6 camaro RS to wheelie. idk if thats possible. if it is let me know. oh if any of you know how much torque per pound it takes to get the front wheels off the ground that'd be great. oh and maybe if i need to make some upgrades that doesn't involve removing the engine that'd be great thanks!!

You will have to remove the engine and transmission but don't replace them.

Once that's done get about 40 bags of premix concrete and dump it in the back of the car.

Add water and stir.

Let us know how it goes.

Killerzracing71 · 04-12-2009, 08:03 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARspNEioMts

Watch until the end and youl see how the chevelle did it.

Something on the back made the car pop a wheelie.

89ROC-Z · 04-12-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George

You will have to remove the engine and transmission but don't replace them.

Once that's done get about 40 bags of premix concrete and dump it in the back of the car.

Add water and stir.

Let us know how it goes.

You could lift the front end of the car up with your bare hands and run down the track!!

this thread is pointless.

nicksL98 · 04-12-2009, 08:32 PM

Wow. Short answer, no. Long answer, right chassiswork, big power, weight transfer.... None of what you have right now or comes cheaply. see link below.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/B...d-by_22739.htm

acole88 · 04-12-2009, 10:41 PM

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George · 04-12-2009, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89ROC-Z

...You could lift the front end of the car up with your bare hands and run down the track!!

Like a gawd dam rickshaw with him standing in the motor bay

jims87camaro · 04-14-2009, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abbydecamaroRS

Hey i was wondering if anyone has ever gotten a 1989 v6 camaro RS to wheelie. idk if thats possible. if it is let me know.

i personally have not. i doubt it's possible at your assumed experience level. it takes either many more years of experience with cars in general, your car specifically or lots of money to pay someone to set your car up with what is necessary to get the desired result. i am not trying to insult you, but it does sound like you are a relative beginner (or a troll).

Quote:

Originally Posted by abbydecamaroRS

if any of you know how much torque per pound it takes to get the front wheels off the ground that'd be great. oh and maybe if i need to make some upgrades that doesn't involve removing the engine that'd be great thanks!!

The torque required to do a wheelie will be the lever arm length from the rear wheel axle to the center of mass. The center of mass can be found a couple of ways. use this: x_{cm}=\frac{m_1x_1+m_2x_2+...+m_nx_n}{\sum m}

which can be rewritten as:

x_{cm}=\frac{\sum^n_{i=1} m_ix_i}{M}
y_{cm}=\frac{\sum^n_{i=1} m_iy_i}{M}
z_{cm}=\frac{\sum^n_{i=1} m_iz_i}{ M}

Set the origin at the rear wheel axle, and assume the car is 2D thus elliminating the z.

The x and y component can now be used to find the moment about the rear axle \tau=(Mg)r where Mg is the weight of the car at the center of mass (total wieght) and g is the gravitational acceleration and r is the radius from the moment axis to the point of force.

where r= \sqrt{x_{cm}^2+y_{cm}^2}

You now have a radius from the rear axle to the center of mass and the center of mass is found by knowing the weight distribution of the car (distance between the wheels, engine placement, driver placement/orientation, driver weight, weight of wheels).

In your problem, the y component would be the height and the x component would be the distance along the x (1/2 of distance between the two wheels). All you need is the force (weight of the car and driver). Think about what is going on. The engine via a transmission must produce enough torque to cause the center of mass to rotate about the rear axle. Its just like using a torque wrench to tighten a bolt. You have a lever arm and a force.

This doesn't set the torque at the rear axle but torque is a free vector (able to move) so it will work.

i know this is probably way more information than you needed, but know that there is a science to it.

CamaroJoe1987 · 04-17-2009, 03:35 AM

palm to forehead

CamaroJoe1987 · 04-17-2009, 03:37 AM

seems like someone saw fast and furious 4 too many times

RevItUpZ28 · 04-18-2009, 03:18 PM

subscribing for pics

ThePain · 04-18-2009, 03:40 PM

DON'T KILL A POOR THIRDGEN!!!!

91interceptorZ · 04-23-2009, 06:44 PM

heck, if he can't figure out how to do wheelies with that fancy mathmatical equation....then he will never figure it out....LOL that's funny...

V6F1R3BRD · 04-23-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91interceptorZ

got to love the v6 guys though.......they always have big dreams.

F*** that lol. its not THE v6 guys. its ignorant car guys in general. i know a v6 cant do that stuff. and i dont want to make it do anything spectacular. i got my v6 because of the mpg's as well as the beautiful thirdgen look.

arrogant v8 guys...

compensating?

1brd2brd3brd4 · 04-23-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V6F1R3BRD

F*** that lol. its not THE v6 guys. its ignorant car guys in general. i know a v6 cant do that stuff. and i dont want to make it do anything spectacular. i got my v6 because of the mpg's as well as the beautiful thirdgen look.

arrogant v8 guys...

compensating?

Now......I have V8's in everything I own, 83,88,93,01 Birds,75 Dodge pick up........they arent compensation for anything........but the 44 swampers on my 85 Blazer are!!!! LMAO

91interceptorZ · 04-23-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V6F1R3BRD

F*** that lol. its not THE v6 guys. its ignorant car guys in general. i know a v6 cant do that stuff. and i dont want to make it do anything spectacular. i got my v6 because of the mpg's as well as the beautiful thirdgen look.

arrogant v8 guys...

compensating?

Sorry, should of said most v6 guys......seems like everytime I see a post it's about a v6 guy trying to do something that is just crazy!! doing wheelies....spraying 300shots of nitrous.....trying to run 10's (i know, GN motors).....LOL

I compensate with horse power because I have no life and it lets me pretend i'm cool........

V6F1R3BRD · 04-23-2009, 10:20 PM

alright i meant no offense to you guys. your all awesome, i just thought the v6 comment was a little overboard. but ya... 300 shot.. wheelies.. cmon people

crytical point · 04-24-2009, 03:22 PM

I was able to lift one wheel with a 400hp 350 and a 200 shot with a 3k launch with drag radials. Don't try that without SFC's if you love your car or ever want it to steer straight ever again.

V6F1R3BRD · 04-24-2009, 11:10 PM

lol.. The twisted bird...