saucy beast

i have a 1989 firebird, tbi 305 with a few modifications, 2 1/2 inch exaust(3 inch and headers are being put on in a week) after market intake and weight reduction(no back seat or spare tire) and my freind has a 1991 rs with a stock tbi 305, except has a glass pack on the stock exaust, both cars are automatic is there anyway he could beat me in a quarter mile???

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

If all thing are equal no...

However that's why we race. One car could run better than the other, one driver could be better than the other, etc.

J91

Like fly 89 says, that's a close match! Keep us posted...

transamws6

u

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Firebird is lighter off the go, so you should have him covered by a couple cars i would imagine.

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

When will people stop saying the whole "Firebird is lighter" crap. A few #s, maybe but nothing of any significance. Hell, the difference in drivers weight probably has more of an effect than the Firebird's weight advantage - If it truly even has one. I can't image that some plastic bumpers and GFX, which weigh next to nothing on the camaro is sooo much heavier than a Firebird with similar options, and the same GFX (or even w/o) and a longer front end with headlight motors, etc.

[/rant]

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Well, the fact is, in 1989, the L98 powered formula was the first to whoop the mustang in a long time because of its lighter weight, the Camaro and Trans Am, still didng do what the Formula did.

The firebird had better aerodynamic too if it helps you sleep better knowing there is another advantage.

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

See, you always hear that, but the hard facts are different:

As for weight: (From 3rdgenformula.com) 89 Formula: 3318#, 89 TA: 3337#. 19lbs difference - Again, the ground effects and differences in bumpers is so small its not really a reason to make significant note of it.

As for the aerodynamics, sure, that plays a role; but only past a certain speed. The difference between the Firebird and Camaro's aerodynamics probably doesn't come into play until maybe 70mph or so.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Well, my 86 TA was 3443, that is a roll up windows base model. Now that i have headers and what not i might ave shed weight, otherwise, it varies from car to car.

NY3RDGEN

IDk man, A fully optioned GTA 5.7 can almost touch 3600 pds. My TA is over 3400 also. heavier now with the SFC's, Procharger, ect..
But Zone is absolutely right about the 89 L98 Formula being the best stock straight line performing Thridgen (besdies TTA, 1LE and Firehawk). Just like a LX foxbody is a bit quicker than the portlier GT.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Yea, i REALLY would like to take a 89 formula and ball it out with another LS swap, but that is too many projects, so the 86 TA is getting the treatment.

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

You're all just gonna keep snowballing this stuff, aren't ya? Everyone has always heard "The Formula is lighter" and everyone seems to run with it, because "it doesn't have the ground effects", which is a joke. Sure, quote magazines from the late 80's, where one tested the Formula and got a 14.9, and then another magazine tested a Z28 and got a 15.2... Unless you've got a shootout article where the two cars, identically equipped, are racing AT THE SAME TIME, I simply don't buy the argument.

Gimme a break - Sure, a stripped down Formula may actually be lighter, but its nuts how everybody seems to think they are SOO much lighter. We are talking less than 100lbs less than a comparably equipped T/A or other thirdgen.

... about the GTA vs. T/A weight; show me where a GTA is so much heavier than a T/A?!?! Its the same damn car. A few options doesn't equate to hundreds of pounds. Show me where is all I'm sayin'!

Real, possibly noticeable weight savings comes in the form of T5 vs. 700R4, A/C delete, up for argument: power windows.

It does not come in the form of NO power locks, NO power mirrors, NO digital dash, etc.

Heresay isn't worth ****, I want facts; provable facts!

[edit]For the record, an L03 RS and L03 Firebird are probably identical in performance.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Well, you just hit the nail on the head. A formula is usually a stripper model and a TA and especially GTA is loaded. Otherwise, 100 pounds makes for a good difference believe it or not.

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

No hard feelings, but prove it to me, give me traceable numbers where "A formula is usually a stripper model". End the errors, either mine or yours, and back up what you're saying with fact. I just get tired of people saying the same thing over and over about cars w/o ground effects (ie, Formula) being so much faster than everything else and weighing so much less, but never having FACT to back it up.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Well, you yourself admitted that the aerodynamics are better, though you say not till 70 or so, but ad that with the fact that 100 less pounds, then it starts to make a noticable difference.

From personal experience, the average formula and V8 firebird models were usually cloth interior, manual seats, about 50/50 on the manual/electric windows, otherwise, nothing special as far as being loaded.

have maybe seen 2 that had allot of options. The rest were nothing like the GTAs and what not. Thought they are out there, the average Formula i personally find, not too luxurious.

saucy beast

the other thing i didnt point out is that i weigh about 130 pounds and hes pushing 220 pounds so thats an extra 100 pounds on his stock rs compared to my firebird

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

For the record, I just picked up a 91 Formula and its loaded. Power everything, power antenna, A/C, etc....

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

That doesnt matter, those arent anything special, they were identical in 91/92, all had the same GFX and looked the same except decals and rear spoiler.

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

huh??

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Huh what? You dont know the difference in the exterior on the third gens? There was no 91/92 available with no ground FX. The 90 down firebirds had none, making them lighter.


Assuming you are commenting on the weight argument.

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

I was referencing the options available on the Formula. My 91 Formula (which has no GFX, factory) is loaded with options.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

91-92 Formy also had no GFX unless I'm misunderstanding your comment.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

These are the ones i have seen.



There are some without now that i think about it. For some reason i was thinking all the 91/92 did.

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

Yup -