Eric2ndGen

Just wondering- I remember a few people around here talking/trying to get clubs up and running- but haven't kept track.

Who is/is in the process of starting up/running a local club?

The reason I ask is that I have been offended by the tfbm event layout this Saturday and have declined to renew my membership for what I have found to be a very 4th-gen focussed club and the rather high-cost events (barbecue/dyno day on Saturday will require you be a member, $45.00 in 2002- don't know fee this year- and 2 pulls on dyno, one after the other, no tuning in between with only the HP output measured (i.e. no 02 sensor data or torque numbers) at an additional cost of $50.00- you can rent your own dyno time and get more done for less money).

I think that for me- someone who has an interest in 2nd and 3rd Gens- and very little interest in 4th Gens- that I need to find a group better oriented to my mindset.

Daz

iTrader: (1)

Its not really a club but I go to gatherings with these guys and I love em

Northeast Third Generation Camaros and Firebirds

You can meet a lot of them on the 2nd and 3rd ,were having a gathering in Vineland,On

Daz

George

ccfbg.com - based in TO and a lot the same people who are on this board.

Cruzin Kaz

You can check us out here too.. www.sogm.ca GM club.. Gbodies, Fbodies..all GM products... Also alot of the same members...

Eric2ndGen

Hey- thanks for the info. I gather sogm is mainly Welland/St. Catharines/Niagara, and ccbfg is Toronto- where exactly is NE? Is this Toronto or an Ottawa-area group?

D's89IROCZ

www.kwfbody.com



it isn't mine .....but the people are very nice .....just a spot for local enthusiasts( Kitchener/Waterloo), they have events and meets .

George

I think NE is like Northeastern US and us too.

Shortly after I was given a bottle of Cognac at Christmas I logged on there using the unlikely name of Joe Rotax.

I think there is a Southeastern board as well.

Daz

iTrader: (1)

yup Northeastern...I know it was you..lol

Daz

Sickness91Z28

iTrader: (1)

Here is the club I'm in....my picture isn't on the site yet....but..it's mostly f-bodies...with a few stangs...http://clubinsanity.com/

Cruzin Kaz

We'll yes and no..we have alot of members in TO, Hamilton, Missasuga, Kitchener etc...

Z-drr-Guy

Hey Eric : Names Mark ....better known as Z-drr-Guy .

I will not bad mouth TFBM cause of my position as a fellow Club President....... BUT ........ i was offended as well by some things that have happened in past with my dealings with them .

Some of them know me and know who i am .......but I got the feeling like i was being treated like a second class citizen .......

So thats OK .......the $45 can be spent in better places ......thats all .

Eric ....We a local group based in Toronto ......we work along side with SOGM & KWF.

We are a F-body Club & F-body forum .

Our meets are at Shoeless Joes (Etobicoke Location)

We do not charge a fee to become a Club member

We are a fairly new Group but becoming rapidly popular !!

here's the address ......

If you have any more questions please email me .........


Camaro Country F-body Group

zdrrguy@ccfbg.com

Pacer

Ontario Camaro Club

http://www.ontariocamaroclub.com/

Toronto (GTA) based group for Camaro enthusiasts.
Monthly meetings and annual show.

NTChrist

Not necessarily. I'm from St. Kitt's an I be reppin' for ccfbg.com.

RegaPlanet

I'm just starting up my own club here in London called CTRHOSAWHC(Come To Rega's House On Sundays And Wash His Car). Nobody but me and my gf in it so far but I'm sure some of you would enjoy it if you joined

Kevs87TA

What would be pretty cool is a club matchup at the track.Members representing their perspective clubs, matched up in classes, 305's 4BBL, 305's TPI, 350TPI's, Modded 350's, Custom etc. All for the bragging rights.

IROCKER

In defense of TFbM, cause I feel it's my job here to do so, the club is only what you make it. If the 2nd and 3rd Gen guys keep refusing to show up then of course there's not much left but the 4th Gens. You have to participate to have representation.

And as far as the dyno, they cost of the dyno has NOTHING to do with the club. The club organized the event in conjunction with Agostino Racing and Agostino is getting the money from the dyno runs. TFbM does NOT get any of that money. Lastly, you don't have to pay to hang out and chat with other f-body owners, make some friends and learn a couple things. To eat at the BBQ, I don't think it's unreasonable that you are required to be a member...the club is not in the business of giving out food to just anyone, we're not a charity. The $45 membership fee also entitles you to very good discounts at 3 different dealerships. I easily save well over the $45 a year just through the discounts parts, thus the membership pays for itself.

K2jer

Ontario Camaro Club

HMMMMM I don't know if I'd agree with that one. see me I'd perfer to drive my car not trailer it around. we own performance cars not designer show cars so I'd really not recomend that club.

xxvann

Eric, too bad you feel this way about the club.

A little info on why we charge a membership fee:
http://www.tfbm.org/new/pages/Membership.htm

Or, if you don't want to click the link:
- Membership in one of the largest Camaro/Firebird clubs in Ontario
- Discounted parts and service rates at two affiliated dealerships in the Toronto area
- An annual CASC Membership (work in progress)
- Discounted entry fees at selected motor sports events throughout the summer
- An opportunity to challenge for the annual TFbM Points Championship
- TFbM business cards (to pass out to other f-body enthusiasts);
- TFbM membership card (laminated);
- Discounts at Golden Mile for parts and/or service;
- Discounts at Roy Foss Motors for parts only;
- Discounts on entry fees to selected club events (i.e. the Four Race Drag Series);
- Discounts on other merchandise such as club golf shirts, and participation in Group Purchases

All of these perks took time and effort, as well as a commitment from our executive, to put in place. The CASC membership alone is worth the cost of the club membership. The discounts at GM dealerships easily pay for the club membership in your savings on GM parts.

TFbM is not specifically targeting the 4th generation market. The club, in fact, is always looking for first, second, third and fourth generation members.

My point is that before you complain about having to pay a $45 membership, look at the advantages/benefits of being a member. If you have, and you still decide not to become a member, if you feel that you won't benefit from being affiliated with a club that is a member of CASC, if you don't want discounted entry fees to f-body only drag events (where there is usually a decent purse to the winner and others), or if you don't feel like getting discounted genuine GM parts at three dealers across the GTA, then I guess doesn't have anything to offer you at this time.

However we would not want to turn away any potential members, and your suggestions of how to improve the club are always appreciated.

Mike...

Nates88GTA

Any GM car is welcome at www.sogm.ca we have gotten busy enough where we need a dedicated server, which we are working on now. We have a tentative schedule layed out for the season that includes cruise nights, shows (added as we find out about them) and monthly meetings. I know we aren't a F-Body club, I figured there's too many of those as it is, and a lot of people expressed the need of a GM club where there is no discrimination. Check us out Erich, we don't bite, hard :P

DR.ZED

Is this you Erich B?

I can say that although I have had my share of disagreements with the TFBM, they are a group of dedicated individuals, that have one of the largest clubs in Canada.

I can say that your perception of the club being only 4th gens, is based on that only, perception.

How many 1st and 2nd gen f-bodies are out there? How many actually take part in our events? Let alone drive the cars to the events we have?

Your comments may be out of line here, because we have some 3rd gen guys, and the only thing holding back more 1st and 2nd gen participants, is the fact that they're aren't many on the road, or willing to participate.

Would it be fair then to say that the issue lies with people who drive the same gen car as you and not the club?

To say that TFBM is geared towards 4th gens, would show that you really haven't spent a lot of time with the club, to know many have had older versions of f-body, and still have a love for them. Maybe you would join TFBM more during the event days, before making a statement based on perception and not fact?

Re: ARE dyno day. Again, I must relay your perception has blinded you to the actual facts here. You feel TFBM set up rules for how the ARE owned dyno is run? Again, maybe more research is needed on your end before you make conclusive statements.

I encourage you to get involved, 2nd and 1st gens would indeed be a huge compliment to TFBM.

Slade1

Eric, come visit us at www.ccfbg.com we're a greater toronto area group, (although its spreading like wildfire...).

If you're interested for a dyno, the kitchener group has one that has become an annual event of sorts of which we at Camaro Country will support and come on out. Have to say its become a major tuning tool for me since I started going to those events. We get full hp/torque, have ample opportunity to do multiple runs and get in light tuning and a 2nd shot at the dyno.

garfin

Eric,
It's unfortunate that you feel offended by this Saturday's event organization at ARE. I can certainly assure you (or anyone else who has been offended) that there was absolutely no intent by anyone to do this. As has been mentioned before in this thread, TFbM is not calling the shots during this event. The format has been set by ARE, who is TFbM's primary sponsor. The event last year was a highlight of the year and an incredible success, according to all who participated. As well, just to set the record straight, attendance at this event does not require membership in TFbM. Nor is it mandatory that you pay $50 to dyno your car, should wish to attend. This is a social event on our calendar which is open to TFbM members and their guests - spouses or otherwise.
BTW, our membership fee for '03 is the same as it was for '02 - $45.00, which is a bargain when compared to other C.A.S.C. -affiliated clubs. I believe $15 of that goes directly to C.A.S.C. as an insurance requirement. TFbM is a club that attempts to focus on the enjoyment of all generations of F-bodies - by driving them. We are a participation-oriented club and in order to stage club events such as autocrosses, lapping days and rallies, insurance is required for the club's protection.
Other benefits of membership have already been outlined in this thread by others, but in addition to those stated, members will also receive a similar discount to drag event entry fees when they participate in the club's autcross events.
And as far as the parts discount for membership is concerned at the 3 particpating dealers, I realize that not everbody might be in the market to buy parts from a dealer, but as a for instance, I saved (as a club member) approx. $650 in parts alone when doing my brake upgrade ealier this month.
I also realize that a given club can't possibly appeal to every potential member and I will be the 1st one to respect anybody's decision to decide against joining, no matter what the reason is. However, I do feel that is necessary to dispel a few erroneous perceptions that you have included in your post to a public forum. I hope this note has helped to do this and I hope to see you at some of our events.

Best regardSS,

Elie

zedder 1 9 9 0

I have met a few members of the TFBM over the course of the last year and I have become friends with several of the east enders. I am kind of an outsider that attends non official club events. At first I felt a little out of place becuase 95% of the members I know are 4th gen owners but I was made to feel welcome and have become somewhat of a regular at the weekly east end events.As far as official membership is concerned, I will not be joining in that capacity. I feel the $45 dollars is too steep for someone like myself who will not take full advantage of everything the club offers. AS far as discounts are concerned we get alot more of them at CCFBG for free, and I really don't race my car that much so again no benifit for me. THe only F body club I would consider paying a membership fee to right now is CCFBG because I intend to use some of the club discounts. Perhaps TFBM should offer a couple of membership levels, ie $20 basic membership with full website access and perhaps BBQ and special events but no discounts on racing, or dealership purchases or club wear.Just an Idea that might bolster membership, $20 bux is my limit for club memberships, $45 is just too much imho, and $25 for the Ontario Camaro club is too high in my opinion because I'm not sure what that money gets you?

Pacer

K2jer:

Sorry you feel that the Ontario Camaro Club is not a legitimate f-body club in your opinion. (That's what this thread is about, right?)

Sorry you feel that everybody at OCC trailers his or her cars?
I can't imagine how you came to that conclusion? In fact, having been a member for 10+ yrs I know that very few do. Most, like me, enjoy their cars on the road. Of course, there is the occassional member who has a restored car and wants to keep it in top condition. Some members own multiple f-bodies and CANNOT afford to insure them all! So ya, these guys have trailered their cars also. Furthermore, some simply won't drive their Yenko's, COPO's and ZL-1's, that's not to mention the fellas that have competition Pro-Street cars that cannot be street driven. But they race them at the track!!

Sorry that you feel that OCC members drive "designer show cars".
Simply not true.
I can just imagine what you will think after attending Performance World? You would (will) be surprised to see that performance and appearance go handily together in car club circles.

You said: "I'd really not recommend that club".
Don't recommend it. Readers of this thread are looking for reasons to participate. A negative and unsubstantiated opinion is unwarranted. I think we all would have been more interested in recommendations and highlights from your club.

Lastly, I think you misunderstood the point of the OCC.
The OCC was formed by Camaro enthusiasts to get together on a yearly basis to display their cars, promote Camaro enthusiasm and socialize with each other in the context of a "hobby". The club has always welcomed everyone regardless of their level of interest or condition of their car. Members need not own a “performance” Camaro like yours to belong, as we welcome those with V6’s and 4’s to come out equally and enjoy. The club's annual show is the highlight of the year. While not everyone participates, 200+ cars did come out last year and more will come out this year. Members come from parts of Canada and the US come to share a common interest: Camaros.

At the June show there will be no track or dyno. Only lots of cars.
Discussions on performance, modifications and improvements are always in abundance as many of the guys who “build-up” their cars are only too happy to talk about them.

I’m sorry the Ontario Camaro Club is not to your liking K2jer.
Your performance Camaro would have been of interest to those in the club and attending the show. I’m sure a few guys reading this response are curious too.

….BTW, when you say: "we own", who is "we"?? Another car club?
Or a few boys from Tim Horton's dissing a car club that's been around for 15 yrs? Curious for whom you speak.

Pacer

NTChrist

Whoa, flame fest.

BTW, Kevin, I like your drag day event idea between all the clubs. It'll never happen for logistical reasons, but I'm pretty sure ccfbg would get it's butt spanked!

Not the fastest overall, but coolness/friendliness has to count for something!

Stroked-Z

You guys take these "clubs" too serious.

Who cares, like really?

What we do around HERE (Ottawa), or at least myself & everyone i know, is cruise, hit some restaurants, hit the track, etc.... and we plan it by calling eachother.

A club always leads to BS like this.....the problem is there's too many nerds with too much of a "high" getting off from this ****.

RegaPlanet

so who's joining club CTRHOSAWHC!!!!!!!!!

Z-drr-Guy

Hey Guys : Jon is right .......this thread is getting outta line .........everyone 's opinion will differ ...........but i want to make something clear so it's not confussed .

When i made this post by no means do i mean that TFBM is not a good or bad club .........they offer alot of experience to their members for making their cars better etc .

Just with my dealings this is how i felt ........this is not to say i would not join them at a meet or track day ........ just for me at 1 time i might of paid the $45 to become a member but it's really not worth it for me now with our own Group .

They have alot of friendly people there but i had a couple issues that i was not impressed about ........but that will happen anywhere .

What i say is .......if you like what a club offers
( does'nt matter which club )...............
go out and join that club at their meets .......
meet the people and make your own opinion !!

Mark

NTChrist

Well said.

OLDYELLR

Eric, this is a free club social event and getting 2 dyno runs for $50 is a bargain, especially since it's at ARE and you can trust the results. Last year ARE gave us the dyno runs free and I guess once you get something for free you expect it all the time, just like when some people get on welfare they never want to work again. The last time I paid for a couple of dyno runs was at another TFbM thing and it was $60 for 2 runs and the dollar was worth a lot more than it is today. Anyway, TFbM is one of the oldest internet based F-body clubs in the world. The $45 membership fee also gets you CASC membership and a big parts discount at 2 or 3 Toronto GM dealers, which alone may pay for your membership after one purchase. I'm a member and live in Woodstock for chrissakes! For those of you who don't know about TFbM, check it out http://www.tfbm.org/ Sure, there's a lot of 4th genners there, but we're getting more of the good guys all the time

Nates88GTA

I'm not saying anything against TFbM, I hope no one took my response as a slander toward TFbM .... I was just mentioning our club again

Z-drr-Guy

Come on Guys .......Eric is intitled to his opinion ......thats how he feels ..........but what i find amazing is how all of a sudden the TFBM guys come outta the woodwork on this board to defend their club .........i keep hearing about how TFBM has 3 dealers ..........OK .......well guess what .........which of the 2 dealers would you guys like to talk about .........Dominic at Golden Mile or
Deano at Humberview ??

We have both .......all i'm saying is .......cut the guy some slack ......Eric has his reasons for why he dislikes the respected group in discussion .

That's all .........no need to jump all over him ...... everyone knows how repitable TFBM is .......just this certain person dislike's them for whatever reason he decided .

Nates88GTA

Thank you Mark... hey if I don't like Mc Donalds... don't you all yell at me now.. LOL just joking around guys

NTChrist

YOU DON'T LIKE MCDONALDS?!?!?!? Grrrr snarl GRR!! That's it! Them's fightin words.

Haha! j/k Nate.

Nates88GTA

hahaha.. A&W is the shiznit

Daz

iTrader: (1)

Hey Pacer,Is there a way for you to spread the word in your club that there is gonna be a gathering on Aug 2nd and 3rd?It would be good if your club can join us..All other clubs are welcome to join too..

Daz

85_ZED28

ummm, no. Nothing beats Wendy's my friend! I swear to *** they put something in those junior bacon cheeseburgers!!

Nates88GTA

hmmmm wendy's is a close second to A&W for me

Cruzin Kaz

Hmmmm!!! Junior Bacon Cheeseburgers.......Gee thanks Colin.. Now I'm hungry!

IROCKER

Pacer: I share some of the opinions with Jer towards the OCC. But what really turned me off of the club was the exec. Once Gary and the two Peters leave the club I'll consider joining again. In the mean time, I'll enjoy attending the Camaro Nationals and that's the most I'll ever participate in the club. It's a shame, but a couple people spoiled that whole club for me.

Eric2ndGen

Hello:

Please excuse my lack of contribution to this topic the last couple of days- I have been ill.

This post was not meant to be a "bash tfbm"- merely a statement that I am interested in other f-body/car clubs as tfbm is not to my liking. If the specific reasons for this are desired by the tfbm executive (i.e. xxvann or garfin)- I had a brief email exchange with Mike Cable outlining my reasons. I'm sure he could forward it to both of you.

One thing people should not be assuming is that my issue is with a membership fee or such. Fact is, I have had little use for tfbm activities due to schedule issues, locations of events, etc. I'm sure that if I participated in all the tfbm events I would be laughing at how "cheap" it would be. Also- the fee for CASC membership is $16.40 per club member- so obviously I understand where more than 1/3 off this fee goes. Last year I attended the ARE dyno-day (did not dyno my car), paid my $45.00 and got a hat- but was unable to attend any of the other (i.e. drag or solo) events due to schedule issues or technical problems with my car. Not tfbm's fault, most certainly- but I must ask myself- what did I get for my $45.00?


I think my some of my issues with the tfbm activities in summary are:

Why the "cozying up" to ARE- apparently they are a club "sponsor"- I have absolutely no idea what this means. 3 years ago I emailed and telephoned ARE a number of times about doing my big-block build, and to put it as politely as possible, they/he/whoever couldn't take the time to respond. Even a "we don't do bigblock work" would have been something. Eventually, I went elsewhere. The ONLY reason I even attempted to contact ARE was due to the tfbm affiliation. Last year we had the tour and dyno day at the ARE facility- unfortunately the weather didn't co-operate with the event so well. My point was- ARE is making money off this dyno-time at $50.00/shot- in fact it strikes me that if he can get a vehicle on/off every 15 minutes- he is making more than his usual top-level dyno rate ($150.00/hr- a car every 15 minutes= $200.00/hr). The fact that tfbm is paying for the food (not ARE) adds insult to injury- the ARE facility has no seating- no real capacity for a large number of people, money will be made from the event by ARE. Saturday ARE is normally open to the public/its customers- so it also doesn't strike me that anyone is being "put out" or making much of an effort for this. THEN- there is a captive, primarily 4th Gen audience on hand. ARE is only interested in 4th Gen and C5 engine work- if tfbm were not top-heavy with 4th Gens- why would the primary "sponsor" have any interest in the club?

In respect to other tfbm activities I have attended: when I go to a "drag day" I get a $5.00 discount over the normal rate at St. Thomas- and have the disadvantage of having to stay in the tfbm lineup- not like the other, non-tfbm people at the track.

Features of the club: the bulletin board is now defunct- while I did not make heavy use of it- at least it was a forum for people to find out more about events- I could not get any precise details on Monday April 21 on the tfbm website about the event on April 26- and thus had to email Mike Cable for the details. The fact that the website itself is rarely updated or actively changed to reflect precise events/goings on indicates to me a certain lack of effort or focus. If the club is meant to be a gathering for beer-buddies- then I can only assume it works very well- but for an "outsider" with no personal contacts with other members other than through the club itself- it doesn't work so well in my opinion. The closing of the bulletin board (only started last July I might add) was just another nail in the coffin.

If tfbm has been around for many years- how come there is such a lack of anything other than 4th Gen vehicles? I can tell you from my perspective, but obviously cannot extend it to other people. Not really the place to discuss it here- but the fact is that tfbm certainly does seem to have some sort of underlying 4th-gen focus- and- I have more in common with a 1970 Chevelle owner than I do that of a 1993-up f-body. Perhaps it's just the concept of a "f-body only" club that doesn't work for me. I'll look into other clubs and decide after that.

The point is- I don't really care to have further discussions regarding the good and bad points of tfbm- it is just not a club where I find MY time or money to be well spent. This is different for everyone- so make your own determination.

Why can't some people just leave it at that and go amuse themselves somewhere else?

And for the record- No- I am not Erich Belan.

Pacer

Daz:
Best thing would be to run off flyers to be included in our show goody bag. Indicate your welcoming intentions and discuss the type of participants you’re looking for and what everyone can expect.

IROCKER:
Others have mentioned concerns also.
Unfortunately, the folks that have ideas on how to improve the club and take it in a new direction don’t seem to become involved. It seems the same few club members dedicate their time, money and effort for years on end. I became involved last year and am looking forward to future changes. Nothing happens overnight and nothing happens without personal involvement.
As I mentioned before, there are many Camaro enthusiasts and each has a different need from the club they belong to. Some belong to multiple clubs as I do. It isn’t a secret that the OCC is a “Show & Shine” club, with the June show being a way to display cars and socialize. Our members typically enjoy this once a year event and prefer to leave it at that. Others, like myself and even yourself perhaps, like to get our cars on the road every chance and really drive them throughout the summer, attending various events and meeting up with other car guys. Nothing wrong with that.
There are 3 types of clubs the way I see it (correct me if I’m wrong):
1. Show oriented, organized with a single focus……… ……..OCC eg
2. Participatory, regular events and outings, lots of variety…..TFBM eg
3. Social, often Internet based, informal gatherings……… …..CCFBG eg

Unfortunately, no single club can meet the needs of all f-body owners I believe.
The Ontario Camaro Club is doing a great job with a focus on its annual show. While many prefer a more “active” club, the OCC hasn’t got the mandate or member drive to further that cause. And that’s how it will likely remain for now.

I don’t know what your issues with Gary and Peter are/were. I can assure you though that they each work tirelessly for the club devoting much personal time over the past 10 years. I urge you and anyone else to offer constructive comments on how to improve the club while remembering that we cannot please everyone. You can pass those ideas along to me via PM or email me. Provide me with a clearer understanding on how to make things better. I will address these at our meetings. Thanks.

I hope to meet many of you in June. I’ll be working the main tent.

Pacer (Ron)

NTChrist

I would be mad too, Eric. Its tough in this hobby to be accepted into groups to a point where you're called frequently, and always in the loop. I drove 4 hours to New Jersey one time to meet some guys I knew from online, and was ignored so bad nobody would even take my outstretched hand so I could introduce myself.
Came as a shock. But, I'm lucky with ccfbg, I'm in with a great group of guys.

I don't want this to sound like a shamless plug, but ccfbg makes an effort to include people in the area for all the meets.
There are other clubs that will do the same for you in the area.
If you're serious about wanting a club to cruise with, give ccfbg/sogm a try and see what happens.
BTW, we have a show in May coming up.

Nates88GTA

Hey Eric... even if you don't want to join up with SOGM, you can utilize our scedule on www.sogm.ca to meet up with fellow enthusiasts. It's nice to join the forum as well, because some members from outside of the niagara region, post other events that we have no idea about.