Answer This! Do It Now, EVERYONE!
07-15-2003, 01:46 AM
#1
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Answer This! Do It Now, EVERYONE!
Regardless of how stupid an answer, just give'er...I wanna see everyone have an idea.
The question:
What the fu*ck do those blue liscence plate protector things DO except make the plate...covered...in blue....??? I see them EVERYwhere!
....
ANSWER!
The question:
What the fu*ck do those blue liscence plate protector things DO except make the plate...covered...in blue....??? I see them EVERYwhere!
....
ANSWER!
07-15-2003, 06:21 AM
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ya man they just look good they r not legal out here though i use to have one on my bird and got pulled over twice for it, the last time they made me take it off infront of them. aparently when a camera trys to take a pic of your plate for what every reasion (run a light speeding, going on one of those pay highways) light reflects off it and they cant see the plate #s.
07-15-2003, 10:29 AM
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I've had a blue plate cover on the IROC for over 2 years and one on the Sunfire (when I still had it) for about 2 years as well and never got a ticket or even questioned about it. Just a personal preference I guess...I've had mine on loooong before it was as popular as it is now.
07-15-2003, 10:53 AM
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Car: 85 iroc z
Engine: LG4 :(
Transmission: 5 speed
I've never seen one. 
I live in a small town, but I have seen a car with a blue florescent tube around a licence plate and I think that looked really dumb.
I live in a small town, but I have seen a car with a blue florescent tube around a licence plate and I think that looked really dumb.
07-15-2003, 12:37 PM
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Ya... some of them are a diffracted grating so those speeding vans (which I dont think we use any more...?) would flash your liscence plate and turn up nothing up rainbows, but that is only for the rears.
I love those vans. Got a great pic of my uncle picking his nose in his Miata with a letter attached. "Is this yourself driving?" Lmao.
I love those vans. Got a great pic of my uncle picking his nose in his Miata with a letter attached. "Is this yourself driving?" Lmao.
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07-15-2003, 01:59 PM
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It's crap and does not stop photo imaging of the plates.
The blue colour to it is SUPPOSED to minimize the reflective elements in the license plate's blue paint and thus majically stop the camera's (radar and 407) ability to get an accurate picture.
While they do reduce the reflective paint effect and can make plates difficult to see depending on the angle of view- 407 cameras do not have only 1 lens- but 3 (I had been told- maybe more) at different angles to make sure they capture the plate image- and reducing the reflective paint effect is useless- plates made before 1993 did not reflect at all and I can assure you that the cameras pick up their image just fine.
You'd do better to smear dirt on your plate than using one of those silly blue covers.
This is one of those things like sticking a 160* t-stat in your car in the mistaken belief if will make your car run cooler in July heat- 'mods' for idiots.
Mind-you, if you like the blue cover purely for cosmetics- that's your thing...
The blue colour to it is SUPPOSED to minimize the reflective elements in the license plate's blue paint and thus majically stop the camera's (radar and 407) ability to get an accurate picture.
While they do reduce the reflective paint effect and can make plates difficult to see depending on the angle of view- 407 cameras do not have only 1 lens- but 3 (I had been told- maybe more) at different angles to make sure they capture the plate image- and reducing the reflective paint effect is useless- plates made before 1993 did not reflect at all and I can assure you that the cameras pick up their image just fine.
You'd do better to smear dirt on your plate than using one of those silly blue covers.
This is one of those things like sticking a 160* t-stat in your car in the mistaken belief if will make your car run cooler in July heat- 'mods' for idiots.
Mind-you, if you like the blue cover purely for cosmetics- that's your thing...
07-15-2003, 03:37 PM
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Car: 89 Trans Am
Engine: 3.1 V6
Originally posted by Eric2ndGen
This is one of those things like sticking a 160* t-stat in your car in the mistaken belief if will make your car run cooler in July heat- 'mods' for idiots.
..
This is one of those things like sticking a 160* t-stat in your car in the mistaken belief if will make your car run cooler in July heat- 'mods' for idiots.
..
07-15-2003, 05:03 PM
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Car: 1992 Z28
Engine: 355
Transmission: 700R4
They make your hoopty faster, yo.
No really, I thought they where for defeating photo radar. But they probably defeat radar kind of like how freezing yourself defeats death. Or something.......
No really, I thought they where for defeating photo radar. But they probably defeat radar kind of like how freezing yourself defeats death. Or something.......
07-15-2003, 05:04 PM
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Car: 1992 Z28
Engine: 355
Transmission: 700R4
Originally posted by automorph
How is a 160 stat a "mod for idiots"??? Next time you speak out your $#@ don't forget to wipe
How is a 160 stat a "mod for idiots"??? Next time you speak out your $#@ don't forget to wipe
07-15-2003, 06:37 PM
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Car: '90 Trans Am GTA
Engine: LB9
Transmission: 700R4
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They're along the same lines as clear or euro tail lights and enormous wings. Anyone with at least half a brain will tell you that it looks stupid, but people buy them anyway...
07-15-2003, 08:02 PM
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I'm sorry all you guys think that way...I've had the blue cover on my plate for years and I like it and do NOT think it looks "stupid". I could say a lot of things about everyone's cars here but I won't. Just because people have different opinions on what they like and dislike does not make something "stupid".
I have it on purely for cosmetics and if you're stupid enough to think that it blocks the 407 pics or photo radar then that's your thing. It's just clear blue plastic people, not magic.
I have it on purely for cosmetics and if you're stupid enough to think that it blocks the 407 pics or photo radar then that's your thing. It's just clear blue plastic people, not magic.
07-15-2003, 09:58 PM
#16
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Originally posted by SBlackfoot
They're along the same lines as clear or euro tail lights and enormous wings. Anyone with at least half a brain will tell you that it looks stupid, but people buy them anyway...
They're along the same lines as clear or euro tail lights and enormous wings. Anyone with at least half a brain will tell you that it looks stupid, but people buy them anyway...
Whoa, they're just license plate covers! Simma down, now.
07-16-2003, 12:11 AM
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Car: '85 Z28
Engine: 350
Transmission: T5
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I noticed these things explode in popularity recently as well! maybe they're on sale at wal mart or something?
07-16-2003, 09:36 AM
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"How is a 160 stat a "mod for idiots"??? Next time you speak out your $#@ don't forget to wipe
A thermostat controls MINIMUM engine operating temperature- i.e. when engine coolant hits the temperature rating of the thermostat- say 180*- it will open, allowing the coolant to flow into the radiator to be cooled further. If overall engine temperature falls below 180* (most thermostats have a +/- 5* variance) they will close up again in order to keep coolant from circulating to the radiator- the point being to keep the minimum block temperature at 180* with the thermostat opening and closing, perhaps quite frequently in cold weather in order to maintain that 180*.
That being said- once your engine coolant is at 180* and won't get cooler because the rest of the cooling system- i.e. radiator, waterpump, fans(s), overall cooling system condition can't keep it near 180*with high ambient weather (i.e. 95* July day)- the thermostat hangs wide open ALL THE TIME- the rest of the cooling system is working at its maximum ability to keep things cool, and the MAXIMUM temperature the engine will run at will be whatever the cooling system can handle.
IF a particular cooling system was extremely efficient and could keep an engine at 160* in July weather- the LAST thing that should be used as a thermostat is a 160* unit- Chevy engines were designed to burn fuel optimally in the 190*-220* range.
The point- the thermostat only controls engine temperature UP TO its rating point and not beyond- MAXIMUM temperature is dictated by the rest of the cooling system's capacity/efficiency.
However it seems that the common perception in the less-than-technical crowd is that somehow popping in a lower temperature thermostat (i.e. 160*) will magically make an engine that ran at 210* in 95* weather with a 195* thermostat somehow run cooler in the same weather.
-If you have some other explanation of how the engine cooling system works- I am all ears and await your educated response to this.
07-16-2003, 10:01 AM
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Car: 89 Trans Am
Engine: 3.1 V6
180 stat, opens when temp hits 180 allowing coolant to flow through motor
160 stat opens when temp hits 160 allowing coolant to flow through motor
If opened earlier would the coolant not circulate faster taking the heat out faster instead of letting it get to 180 and then opening.
WHY would they make a 160 and a 180 stat? Why does my car run cooler with one? When I drilled holes in my 180 too big my car never got up to operating temp.??
In my mind the cooler the motor, the better
160 stat opens when temp hits 160 allowing coolant to flow through motor
If opened earlier would the coolant not circulate faster taking the heat out faster instead of letting it get to 180 and then opening.
WHY would they make a 160 and a 180 stat? Why does my car run cooler with one? When I drilled holes in my 180 too big my car never got up to operating temp.??
In my mind the cooler the motor, the better
07-16-2003, 11:03 AM
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Put aside your preconceived notions and actually READ my previous post.
IF your cooling system is extremely efficient- then maybe it can keep your engine coolant at 160* all the time when you use a 160* t-stat.
If the cooling system cannot keep the engine at 160* under all ambient conditions- opening the t-stat at 160* and allowing full coolant flow through the system might extend the warmup time until it reaches the maximum cooling ability (170*? 180*? whatever).
If you drilled holes in a 180* t-stat and you have an efficient cooling system- you were partially bypassing the t-stat with these holes- apparently enough that your coolant never got to 180*. The only time you need to drill holes in a t-stat is when you have eliminated the heater core (smallblock) or the waterpump bypass (bigblock) to make sure no air or heat pockets develop in the system. If for some reason, a particular setup is prone to developing air pockets that are not easily removed by normal cooling system operation- drilling of the t-stat is an option. From a performance point-of-view, drilling the t-stat is not terribly important or relevant- and as you found out the hard way- actually would not allow you to get to the t-stat opening point.
Coolant movement (i.e. "speed" or "faster") is not relevant- volume is. As long as sufficient coolant volume is moving past hot parts- speed is irrelevant. In fact- too much "speed" creates greater surface tension on the coolant- reducing it's ability to cool- thus the development of products like Redline's Water Wetter.
As for why they make 160* t-stats- they're not made for Chevy engines- each engine design lives within certain parameters- maybe a Chrysler engine uses a 160* thermostat and was designed to operate efficiently at 160*- Chevy V6s and V8s were not. Some cars have dual thermostats and open the cooling system in "steps"- so maybe a 160* thermostat is used for "stage 1" and a 180* t-stat is for "stage 2". Maybe the answer is because so many people have lived with this fantasy that a 160* t-stat will keep an engine cooler for so long- manufacturers said "hey- if the idiots want it- the idiots get it" -just like the blue license plate cover question that started this topic.
As for "the cooler the better" this is so far from the truth it's scary. Chevy engines have typically been designed to run in the 190-220* temp range to ensure full combustion and proper oil temperatures. If you run too cool and don't re-tune as much as possible to work around this- you will not achieve full combustion, if engine oil doesn't reach a minimum of 180* it has been proven that it will actually wear metal parts faster. If cooler were better- why have a t-stat at all? Why not just slap on a rad the size of the whole front end of the car and let the engine run at 10* all the time? Wouldn't driving in sub-zero weather conditions with no thermostat be best as coolant temp will never go above a few degrees?
The cooling system is the "regulator" for engine operating conditions. Any given engine was designed to be operated within certain operating parameters/temperatures. If you mess with the "regulator" where not required, you do it at your own risk.
The fact that you tried some "tricks" like drilling your 180* t-stat and then going to a 160* unit which allows engine operating temperature to come up doesn't "prove" anything except the fact that you shouldn't have drilled the 180* unit. Why not go and try a 195* t-stat and not drill any holes and then come back and tell us how much better your engine runs?
IF your cooling system is extremely efficient- then maybe it can keep your engine coolant at 160* all the time when you use a 160* t-stat.
If the cooling system cannot keep the engine at 160* under all ambient conditions- opening the t-stat at 160* and allowing full coolant flow through the system might extend the warmup time until it reaches the maximum cooling ability (170*? 180*? whatever).
If you drilled holes in a 180* t-stat and you have an efficient cooling system- you were partially bypassing the t-stat with these holes- apparently enough that your coolant never got to 180*. The only time you need to drill holes in a t-stat is when you have eliminated the heater core (smallblock) or the waterpump bypass (bigblock) to make sure no air or heat pockets develop in the system. If for some reason, a particular setup is prone to developing air pockets that are not easily removed by normal cooling system operation- drilling of the t-stat is an option. From a performance point-of-view, drilling the t-stat is not terribly important or relevant- and as you found out the hard way- actually would not allow you to get to the t-stat opening point.
Coolant movement (i.e. "speed" or "faster") is not relevant- volume is. As long as sufficient coolant volume is moving past hot parts- speed is irrelevant. In fact- too much "speed" creates greater surface tension on the coolant- reducing it's ability to cool- thus the development of products like Redline's Water Wetter.
As for why they make 160* t-stats- they're not made for Chevy engines- each engine design lives within certain parameters- maybe a Chrysler engine uses a 160* thermostat and was designed to operate efficiently at 160*- Chevy V6s and V8s were not. Some cars have dual thermostats and open the cooling system in "steps"- so maybe a 160* thermostat is used for "stage 1" and a 180* t-stat is for "stage 2". Maybe the answer is because so many people have lived with this fantasy that a 160* t-stat will keep an engine cooler for so long- manufacturers said "hey- if the idiots want it- the idiots get it" -just like the blue license plate cover question that started this topic.
As for "the cooler the better" this is so far from the truth it's scary. Chevy engines have typically been designed to run in the 190-220* temp range to ensure full combustion and proper oil temperatures. If you run too cool and don't re-tune as much as possible to work around this- you will not achieve full combustion, if engine oil doesn't reach a minimum of 180* it has been proven that it will actually wear metal parts faster. If cooler were better- why have a t-stat at all? Why not just slap on a rad the size of the whole front end of the car and let the engine run at 10* all the time? Wouldn't driving in sub-zero weather conditions with no thermostat be best as coolant temp will never go above a few degrees?
The cooling system is the "regulator" for engine operating conditions. Any given engine was designed to be operated within certain operating parameters/temperatures. If you mess with the "regulator" where not required, you do it at your own risk.
The fact that you tried some "tricks" like drilling your 180* t-stat and then going to a 160* unit which allows engine operating temperature to come up doesn't "prove" anything except the fact that you shouldn't have drilled the 180* unit. Why not go and try a 195* t-stat and not drill any holes and then come back and tell us how much better your engine runs?
07-17-2003, 03:23 PM
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The funy thing here about those plate covers ...............their sold at the licencing offices .............i believe .
I think they look like Sh## unless you have a blue car .
.............i believe .I think they look like Sh## unless you have a blue car .
07-17-2003, 05:50 PM
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Car: 87 Camaro
Engine: Chevy V8
Transmission: auto
I agree to BOTH Eric and automorph..
The 160 degree thermostat would only work IF the cooling system can cool it below that.My truck would be on 200F(195F stat) the whole time its warmed up,sometimes over but not too far.I installed the 160degree and now it stays well below it.
IMO Saying that Chevy designed this engine to run at a certain temp is probably true.But they probably designed it for fuel economy low horsepowerand emissions in mind.
Oil and coolant act very different when it comes to cooling.Coolant can be cooled a lot faster than oil.So when oil passes its viscosity level because of heat,it will take a whole lot longer to cool back.
Daz
The 160 degree thermostat would only work IF the cooling system can cool it below that.My truck would be on 200F(195F stat) the whole time its warmed up,sometimes over but not too far.I installed the 160degree and now it stays well below it.
IMO Saying that Chevy designed this engine to run at a certain temp is probably true.But they probably designed it for fuel economy low horsepowerand emissions in mind.
Oil and coolant act very different when it comes to cooling.Coolant can be cooled a lot faster than oil.So when oil passes its viscosity level because of heat,it will take a whole lot longer to cool back.
Daz
07-17-2003, 08:44 PM
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Car: 87 Camaro
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Originally posted by automorph
180 stat, opens when temp hits 180 allowing coolant to flow through motor
160 stat opens when temp hits 160 allowing coolant to flow through motor
If opened earlier would the coolant not circulate faster taking the heat out faster instead of letting it get to 180 and then opening.
WHY would they make a 160 and a 180 stat? Why does my car run cooler with one? When I drilled holes in my 180 too big my car never got up to operating temp.??
In my mind the cooler the motor, the better
180 stat, opens when temp hits 180 allowing coolant to flow through motor
160 stat opens when temp hits 160 allowing coolant to flow through motor
If opened earlier would the coolant not circulate faster taking the heat out faster instead of letting it get to 180 and then opening.
WHY would they make a 160 and a 180 stat? Why does my car run cooler with one? When I drilled holes in my 180 too big my car never got up to operating temp.??
In my mind the cooler the motor, the better
Daz
07-18-2003, 09:51 AM
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"Umm my engine runs fine Much better with a 160....... "
-obviously you re-tuned the engine to run at 160* or by pure coincidence some of your tuning efforts work better at 160 than something higher. However- while the engine runs "better" than it did previously (I'm going to assume a proper, undrilled 180* or 195* t-stat) it is still not running "best" as, yet again, you are outside the design parameters of the Chevy engine. If you were to put an appropriate t-stat in (195*) and re-tune properly, I'm sure you would find it would runner even better and be more consistent across all sorts of ambient temperatures.
But whatever- I'm not here to tune your car- I think this discussion has run it's course- next time don't tell me I'm talking out of my *** when your technical knowledge is less than "optimal" on a subject.
-obviously you re-tuned the engine to run at 160* or by pure coincidence some of your tuning efforts work better at 160 than something higher. However- while the engine runs "better" than it did previously (I'm going to assume a proper, undrilled 180* or 195* t-stat) it is still not running "best" as, yet again, you are outside the design parameters of the Chevy engine. If you were to put an appropriate t-stat in (195*) and re-tune properly, I'm sure you would find it would runner even better and be more consistent across all sorts of ambient temperatures.
But whatever- I'm not here to tune your car- I think this discussion has run it's course- next time don't tell me I'm talking out of my *** when your technical knowledge is less than "optimal" on a subject.
07-18-2003, 08:04 PM
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Car: '90 Trans Am GTA
Engine: LB9
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73's
Originally posted by NTChrist
Whoa, they're just license plate covers! Simma down, now.
Whoa, they're just license plate covers! Simma down, now.
Kinda wondering what could be "said" about my car though...
07-19-2003, 01:11 PM
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Just want to inject some technical mumbo jumbo in here.
A cooler engine is a better one? Yes and no. In optimum power production the cylinered head would be red hot and the intake charge (air and fuel) would be ice cold. If you had 'ideal' forced air it wouldnt matter the heat in the air, but when you are thrying to squeez so many cubic feat of air through a small cylinder port you want to make sure that those cubic feat have as many oxygen molecules as they possibly can (ie more dense, ie colder.) If you dont believe me than go try to start a diesel motor cold, not to be pissy or sarcastic but it is impossible to make any combustion event without a great deal of activation energy. Ideally, the compression stroke gives us the activation energy by compressing all the molecules together there colective heat energy is intensified.
But Daz is right, they did design the engines in our cars for emmisions and reliability, not necessarily power. But this is where the coolness argument comes into play. Hot alkanes tend to promote lean burning, which means C0, which means detonation, which means dieseling... blah blah blah. Plus most of us are running alluminum intake manifolds with iron cylinder heads, and what temperature is good for iron isnt necessarily good for alluminum ans vice versa. The cylinder heads need enough heat to ignite the air/fuel, but the intake manifold is giving alot more energy because alluminum has a better enthrapy constant (?) and heats up the intake charge, and I already said that aint no good.
I wanna run iron intakes with alluminum heads? Who's with me?
---
Wanna know more cool stuff? No you dont. As a tease race engines take in more air/fuel on the exhaust stroke than the intake... chew on that... lmao!
Sorry for the rant but this stuff is hella interesting to me.
A cooler engine is a better one? Yes and no. In optimum power production the cylinered head would be red hot and the intake charge (air and fuel) would be ice cold. If you had 'ideal' forced air it wouldnt matter the heat in the air, but when you are thrying to squeez so many cubic feat of air through a small cylinder port you want to make sure that those cubic feat have as many oxygen molecules as they possibly can (ie more dense, ie colder.) If you dont believe me than go try to start a diesel motor cold, not to be pissy or sarcastic but it is impossible to make any combustion event without a great deal of activation energy. Ideally, the compression stroke gives us the activation energy by compressing all the molecules together there colective heat energy is intensified.
But Daz is right, they did design the engines in our cars for emmisions and reliability, not necessarily power. But this is where the coolness argument comes into play. Hot alkanes tend to promote lean burning, which means C0, which means detonation, which means dieseling... blah blah blah. Plus most of us are running alluminum intake manifolds with iron cylinder heads, and what temperature is good for iron isnt necessarily good for alluminum ans vice versa. The cylinder heads need enough heat to ignite the air/fuel, but the intake manifold is giving alot more energy because alluminum has a better enthrapy constant (?) and heats up the intake charge, and I already said that aint no good.
I wanna run iron intakes with alluminum heads? Who's with me?
---
Wanna know more cool stuff? No you dont. As a tease race engines take in more air/fuel on the exhaust stroke than the intake... chew on that... lmao!
Sorry for the rant but this stuff is hella interesting to me.
07-21-2003, 07:08 PM
#29
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We'll I've picked up one helpful hint from this argument......
Im gettin alot of air buildup and pressure not allowing my t-stat to open, and as Eric explained it, its most likely since my heater core isnt hooked up. This has been an on going problem for me, an annoying as can be. Thanks for the info guys
By the way Eric, what size of holes should I be drilling? I have drilled a couple very small ones, but it didnt seem to help. Something like 3 1/4" holes maybe?
Thanks again
Im gettin alot of air buildup and pressure not allowing my t-stat to open, and as Eric explained it, its most likely since my heater core isnt hooked up. This has been an on going problem for me, an annoying as can be. Thanks for the info guys
By the way Eric, what size of holes should I be drilling? I have drilled a couple very small ones, but it didnt seem to help. Something like 3 1/4" holes maybe?
Thanks again
07-22-2003, 09:18 AM
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3/16" holes - three of them should be sufficient- spread them evenly around circumference of t-stat. Also make sure t-stat isn't installed upside down- this will cause alot of issue.
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