Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

Does anyone know someone who can burn a custom chip. Is there a good starting point for my car w/ its mods. I plan on a Super Ram, cam, and 1.6RR. Any advice?

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Mods: ZZ4 engine w/stock TPI, adj, fuel pres. reg., MSD 8.5, HI6S ign. w/ PS-91 coil, K&N filter, TPI air foil, Hooker comp. shorties, American Thunder flows. 160* stat., TB bypass, 3"cowl, bat. relocate, AC delete.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

http://www.fastchip.com/


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1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
317 RWHP, 418 RWTQ
13.23 @ 107.62 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Member: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

Synergy

I have the ability to do that. What year is your car ?

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92 Z28 5.7
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Trick Flow 23° heads, Comp Cams XR270HR-10 cam, Accel intake base + ported TPI,
TES headers, Flowmaster catback, MSD ignition, #24 SVO injectors, 1LE aluminum driveshaft.

Click here to see pics of my car !

RCR

While I think it is good that someone offer up their services to help a fellow thirdgenner, I believe when you do so you should do it in good faith. So, with no bad intentions in mind, I have to bring up a bad experience Popapork had with a certain individual that promised to burn them a custom chip. Although I don't know the particulars, I thought it should be brought up.

https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/000276.html

Let the buyer beware....

PopaPork

I would first like to say thank you to RCR for reopening my post and giving me the 411 on this post. FreeBird I will give you my side of the story and if you decide to get a chip burned by this indivual you will have heard both sides of the story. A few months back and ran in to SYNERGY on the board and started talking to him about chips and whut not. Durning our conversations he mentioned that he burned chips and would be willing to burn me a chip for my car, for my mods for $50. Being of the trustworth persuasion and thinking about his offer for a few days and having him reasure me that if the chip didnt work he would redo it, I decided to go for it. After about a week I got the first chip, the chip had a few problems in it, the main one being with it in my car I had a bad engine knock. Another problem was i had no real power gain in the lower gears. With the chip in the car I talked to SNYNERGY (NRGz28 AIM) he said to resend him the chip and he would redo it for me for free. So I sent the chip back to him and never got a chip back. When I talked to him about it, he said that the chip must have gotten lost in the mail. I went down to my local post office and asked around, and they said they couldnt trace it, but nothing came in to there station from Las Vegas. Alittle upset I took this as the Post office screw up, not SYNERGY's. So he offerned to redo the chip he just had to wait for a shipment to come in from his supplier. That was the last I heard from him for awhile. When I would ask him about it, i would get ingnored, or more childish I would be warned on AIM. A few weeks pasted and i finally got in touch with him and he said he just got the chips and would mail it out and he was sorry for how long it took and bla bla bla. With new found faith I offered to give him 20 more bucks so he could send the chip UPS and get a tracking number and signature signing. I was detremined that I would get this chip. The chip never came, but the 20 bucks that I put in the pay pal account were gone. So with that and him starting to ingnore me again and warning me, I gave up and turned to the boards. So here is my side of the story, if SYNERGY wants to share his side of the story and explain why I am out 70 bucks and have no chip and no answer for it, then more power to him, But before you do anything I would ask him about this all and think about it. Just for FYI I got a chip finally burned by Prevost for 50 bucks and I got his word that he would re do the chip for me when I do more moods, So my faith is back that all people arent out to scam you. Once again thanks to RCR and Glenn for reopening the post.

PopaPork

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89 RS Camaro
Hedman Headers, Highflow Cat, Flowmaster 80 Series
180 Degree Thermo
Open Air Element with K&N Air Filter
Custum Burned Chip

So Many Mods......so little time

www.rit.edu/~cjp8408
AIM: PopaPork

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

Thank a lot guys!!! I really appreciate it.
Prevost? Do you think he will burn one for me? Popapork?

PopaPork

He prolly will, but take everyones advice....it is better if they can see your car and hook it up to the system. That way they know what YOUR car is doing and how it is doing it. But more then likely he will do it. But I would find some one in VA unless you like driving to NJ.

Pork

------------------
89 RS Camaro
Hedman Headers, Highflow Cat, Flowmaster 80 Series
180 Degree Thermo
Open Air Element with K&N Air Filter
Custum Burned Chip

So Many Mods......so little time

www.rit.edu/~cjp8408
AIM: PopaPork

[This message has been edited by PopaPork (edited August 28, 2001).]

Ed Maher

I held off on saying this for a bit, but it's worth saying. If you can afford a ZZ4, and to mod it w/ niceties like a SR, rollor rockers, etc, then you can afford to invest in your own burning set-up. $150 for the pocket programmer, $100 for tunercat and a few bucks for spare chips and such and you're in business. Ideally you will want to have some type of scanning software as well to see what is going on if you really want to effectively tune it which is the potentially big expense. It's not fair to lump scanning stuff w/ the burning expense cuz even aftermarket guys will admit they can only do so much w/o having your car or at least seeing diacom datalogging data from it.

It's not difficult at all to do if you are vaguely familiar with your engine and basic math. For me it was the only option. To get things right will require a lot of time and trials, which only you can truly provide for your car. If you have to hold off on the modding for a while so you can afford the burning set up and practice tuning it while still relatively mild then so be it, thats your best place to learn anyway, rather than waiting till your stock chip blows your 450hp engine up while you slowly dial it in from scratch.

Grim Reaper

Amen to what Ed said. Burning an eprom is far simpler than you think. While the "mechanics" of actually modifying the BIN and burning it on to an eprom seems difficult, it is surprisingly simple.

What does take time is the actual changes to make to the BIN. But, that is where the expertise of the other members on the DIY PROM Board comes in. There are far more MAF guys on DIY PROM than there were 6 months ago. And then you have guys like myself and Traxion who can help you if it is an SD system.

I further agree with Ed's comment that it is best to get into Prom Burning when your engine is still relatively stock and close to the original engine. The worst thing to do is wait until you've made some massive changes when you NEED an eprom just to get the engine to run. At that point the changes are massive and most guys wouldn't have a clue where to begin as it is best to make changes in "small steps" to verify the results.

The worst thing to do in eprom burning is to make MASSIVE CHANGES as many of these changes (like fuel and spark) affect each other. Add more fuel, you richen it; add more spark you lean it. That is why many of us SD guys have to go back to both the fuel tables and the spark tables a couple of times because both affect the other.

Also, then you are REALLY doing some tuning. Many guys refer to changimg the plugs, wires and cap as "tuning"...it is not. That is a tune up. Tuning is when you alter the fuel delivery and spark curves for a particular engine. With EFI, the ONLY way you can truely tune an engine is by altering the eprom.

I have been helping many "old time" hot rodders who are extremely comfortable with tuning their carb and altering their distributor but are "freaked out" when it comes to eprom burning. After a little while, they realize the same principals to tuning an eprom still apply as it did to tuning a carb or distributor. The only difference is there is even more things they can "fine tune", it's cleaner (no need to crawl inside a the engine compartment), often faster to do...and they can always set it back EXACTLY to what it was before by just re-burning the BIN to the previous version (provided they make each change to a new BIN or save the old BIN), should the change not work out.

With the proper equipment, you can be making simple changes almost as soon as you get the equipment. In a few weeks, you will most likely see some real positive results and in 6 months or a year, you'll wonder why in the heck you didn't get into Prom Burning sooner.

Also, the scan tool has an additional benefit as you can use that for diagnosing problems that are virtually impossible to check without one. No more guessing of what the SES light means. In fact, an SES code can often be deceptive as sometimes an errant sensor can trigger other unrelated codes as the ECM is trying to compensate. In fact, it wouldn't be the first time that the sensor that was REALLY causing the problem didn't even trigger an SES code and the ECM attempts to correct caused another sensor to trigger a code.

Trust me, I have seen MORE SES codes in the last year than I ever have in my life. Most caused by "user error". But, you learn that too.

Lastly, some sensors need the engine to be running to determine if they are operating properly. I know that when I hook my scan tool up (without my engine running) that the max voltage displayed by my TPS is far lower than when my engine is running. Also, you will learn that adjusting the TPS is seldom necessary. Trying to get your TPS to read 4.5+ volts has little to do with the amount of fuel the ECM will give over 4.0 volts. What the ECM looks at is your engine rpm, MAP or MAF sensor and whether or not you have had the Power Enrichment threshold set within the eprom. Once you have crossed that threshold, the amount of voltage (4.0 vs 4.5) means absolutely nothing.

Funny thing, no one EVER discusses the position of the throttle blade in the TB...which DOES have an effect. Oh well.

Guest

Ill third burning your own, its not that hard. Equipment cost aside from a scanner is fairly minimal, and you will probably get better results doing it yourself once you get the hang of what stuff to change.

8Mike9

So Synergy, do you have a response or what? On the internet all you have is your name, once that is shot not much else left, is there?

92 Formula

iTrader: (2)

Concerning the scanner for doing your own chips, in 1997 I got a Christmas gift that is a Sunpro ScanTool Model CP9110. I use it for codes, etc., but is this decent or usable for my upcoming venture into burning my own proms?

I happen to be one of the guys who doesn't mind working with a carb or distributor, but it gives me cold sweats and sleepless nights knowing I'm gonna have to learn this chip burning.

Thanks.

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1992 Pontiac Firebird Formula (original 305 TBI) The project has begun:
just purchased 1986 Corvette 350 TPI, Dual fan setup, OEM Posi, GM 3.42 gears and JEGS Ultimate Support Cover for 7.5 rear.

1997 Chevrolet Camaro SS # 379 (1 of 371 Black, T-Top, 6-speed)
1973 Chevrolet Camaro RS/Z28
1969 Chevrolet Camaro SS 350

RIP Dale Earnhardt.

Grim Reaper

I am not that familar with that scan tool, but if it is able to display all the sensor readings of the ecm while the engine is running, then it will be fine.

It would be even better if it were capable of capturing data, but "display only" is fine too.

92 Formula

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Glenn. I was hoping you'd check back on this message.

Edited to correct grammar, sorry.

[This message has been edited by 92 Formula (edited August 29, 2001).]

Grim Reaper

No problem 92. Drop on down to the DIY PROM Board sometime and check us out. We don't bite...well most of us.

VetteMan

FreeBird,

If you ever make it to sunny California and in my neck of thr woods...I'd be happy to take you to the track and program you a chip or two for free! We all have one thing in common; we love our cars

V/R,
Frank
Vacaville CA

Anniversary-Z-man

iTrader: (2)

Hello all!!
Well my car is coming along now. The new rear end is in, the suspension is hooked to it, and the brakes are getting done. The engine is torn down and awaiting the install of the cam, AFR heads, comp cams RR and lifters, and miniram. There is still a decent amount of work left before I'm gonna need my own chip, but I want to start to gather information on burning PROMS. Could you guys kindly give me a short list of what the best equipment for burning PROMS is and possibly where I can get it from. That would be great guys!!! Right now, we have a laptop that I'd like to use for monitoring the car to help tune for the chip...I usually hear about the Diacom software....is that the best out there? Would that be my best bet? Also, I know of someone with a scan tool, is that a definite recommendation for a project like this? Thanks everyone!!!

- Joel

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1992 25th Heritage Z28 Red/Black - L98 350
- Flowmaster 3" cat-back, Random Tech cats, Alston SFC's, SLP 1 3/4" Jet Hot coated headers, TPIS Miniram, Bosch 36lb inj/4+ plugs, MSD 6A/billet dist/8.5 wires/Blaster coil, TPIS 52mm TB, Stewart polished waterpump.
- Stereo: Panasonic/Audio Control/ADS/Alpine

Currently In the Works:
Hotchkis LCA's/panhard rod, Baer 13"/12" brake system, SLP 17" chrome SS rims w/GY F1's, 4th Gen 3:73 HD Zexel/Torsen, Moser Rear End, Spohn Torque Arm/LCA RLC brackets, all MOOG front end, Hellwig solid fr/r bars, AFR 195's (all options) for 10.5:1 compression + Hydra-Rev kit, SLP 51010 Cam, Crane Magnum Pro 1.6RR, Trick flow pushrods, Moroso 6qt Oil pan+pump, AGR Power Steering, TPIS gasket matched Miniram, custom PROM, etc.........
'99 Corvette front seats, Autometer Gauge pod....

Grim Reaper

Scope out DIY PROM Board and read Traxion's Prom Burning Article on how to burn an eprom and the various equipment you will need.

Also, read some of the posts on the DIY PROM Board. There is "freeware" available for Craig Moate's software that avoids having to purchase a scan tool. It works very well for MAF, but there are not too many SD users. Mostly because most of us SD guys already had scan tools. The nice thing about Craig's software is that he gives you access to the Source Code, so you can customize it. Useful for debugging PROM changes.

Tim's article has a link on the top of EVERY DIY PROM page. Great starting point.

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

Thanks a lot guys. Anyone have a preference of what kind of equipment they like to use. I am not good w/ computers. Ya'll are a great help.

james_fearn

ttt

synergy/blade is lurking around.

James

Synergy

I just now saw this post again.

Yes I DO have a response. However because Mr. Popapork decided to trash my name in public without even TRYING to email me or talk to me on AIM about it, I'm not even going to think about sending him another chip. For what it's worth, I'm STILL waiting for the chips from JDR microdevices. Everytime I call them they tell me they're on backorder. For what it's worth I wasnt trying to make money off of writing a chip for Popapork. TunerCat costs money, the TDF I have to buy to make chips for RSs (I have a SD TPI) and the chips themselves add up.

Because this happened, I agree with what most people say that when you decide to help out and burn chips for other people... well it's not worth it. I remember PopaPork proudly telling me how he was able to beat his friend in another car which used to beat him, after putting my chip in. Now he has to say all this BS. Oh well!

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92 Z28 5.7
------------------
Trick Flow 23° heads, Comp Cams XR270HR-10 cam, Accel intake base + ported TPI,
TES headers, Flowmaster catback, MSD ignition, #24 SVO injectors, 1LE aluminum driveshaft.

Click here to see pics of my car !

PopaPork

Very well if he would like to play this game and say I still have the first chip fine. But in all reality I dont I mailed it back, with the promise from him to get a new one. But that never came. So whut ever I am done playing games I just wanted to let others know about him and his ways. I will never do, or recomend anyone to him, ever. That is all I have to say about this subject, if anyone wants to know more details please feel free to write me or IM me.


NEW** You had to get a new chip becuase you said you sent the new one out to me and it never came. Then I sent you the extra 20 bucks in your pay pall account for the mailing of the new chip VIA UPS. You said you werent going to charge me for the new chip cuz it only cost $1.75. Then when I talked to you a few weeks after I got the ignore...you said you just got the chips and you would send it out that monday after noon.

[This message has been edited by PopaPork (edited August 31, 2001).]

Synergy

If that's really true, then why did I have to order another chip from JDR when I could have just erased your and reprogram it ? It doesnt make any sense.

Grumpy

The only reason this all started was your trying to burn him a chip.
The reason for the chip being lost was your fault. If you'd gotten it right, the chip wouldn't have had to go back to you.
So now you openly addmitting to stealing his money, since you didn't get his chip right.
Your a great person.

The reason folks don't do chips, via mail/email/phone is because you can't do it that way. There are so many issues, that it takes numerous attempts to get it right. Once someone learns the basics then they can tunr there own, and really appreciate what the perfect bin is, and not settle for what a ******tuner******* just throws at them.

Grumpy

And for a little more then what he charges you could be doing them yourself.

Since you mention him, that is a form of endoresement, stating that in fact that the chip fastchips does will be correct?. Not just acceptible, but actually correct?.

Synergy

Opening admitting to stealing money huh... wow you'r really bright! Maybe you should read the post again!

The reason the chip supposedly went back to me (or so he says) was because there was audible pinging.

I offered to burn him another chip as soon as a new chip from JDR came in the mail. It's NOT my fault they're on backorder.

89REDGTA

If burning chips for people is not worth it, then why did you again offer your services to someone else?

Grumpy

I read the post several times, and the reason it went back was your calibration was so far off that it exceeded the limits of the parameters of the Knock Sensor. In other words the calibration was junk, by any ones standards. It was so bad that he could hear the problem. There is no logic in him sending back a good chip. But, for you to deny it makes all kinds of sense.
If your doing chips for profit and don't have any inventory that just further shows your out for a quick buck. There are numerous suppliers, to say one firm was out of stock is just being lazy.

If anyone sells a product and doesn't back it up, in a REASONABLE manner then they are a thief. I don't see what is so hard about understanding taking some one money and then not delivering. Reread your post, or think before hitting reply.

No that he's made it clear how you do business, are you going to make good on it?, and when?.
For $47 and $2 shipping, I'll get you any chip he needs for his oem ecm.
Memcals available at a slightly higher price.

Grumpy

Sure sounds like having received funds for a product, and now refusing to deliver. Weither he complains in public or private doesn't matter. You have his money and now refuse to honor the agreement you entered into.
One side of a *contract* can't just deside to ignore it.

Grumpy

This from personal experience or just quoting what you've heard?.

Jim 86 Bird

I know I'm his (popapork's) bud, and because of that I'm biased, but I gotta back him up on one point here:

Even when he was a little confused about the chip's bad performance and still was gonna give you another shot Synergy, he DID send the chip back to you upon YOUR request.

Like I said, I'm very biased, but there was practically no reason for that extra 20 bucks charge. Since you didn't see his car, all you did was opena file in your prom-burner, burn the chip, and send it on it's way for under $5. I know you gotta charge more for the time spent on startup and equipment, but if the guy's having some serious problems with his chip, it would've been good business to dig a little into that 45 you just made and make the customer happy

(edited for spelling)

[This message has been edited by Jim 86 Bird (edited August 31, 2001).]

Synergy

Back then, JDR charged me about 20 dollars total to order ONE chip ( a 2732A I believe) which is rare and expensive. The shipping for it was quite expensive, in the 10 dollars + range because they ship it UPS. Add that to the 20 dollar charge, TunerCat charges for a TDF file, plus shipping fees for me to send him the chip and you'll be VERY close to 50 dollars for me to burn him a chip. What did I make off of this ? A measly couple of dollars for my time spent to improve on the mediocre GM stock programming. Yes I did ask for extra money for me to order another chip (since he still had the old one) and send him another one again. However JDR gave me the runaround for weeks and I DID keep him updated about it. As far as I know JDR is the only company that carries these chips and is willing to sell in in small quantities. Eventually I was going to get the chip and send it to him. I have no use for it, I have a TPI car. But NOW that he's doing this to me, I have no intention of burning him another chip. He can keep the one he has which he was very happy about initially. All of the sudden it started pinging, probably because he was messing with the base distributor timing.

Brent

iTrader: (1)

You didn't look very hard then.

Astro Marketing carries 2732A's for $2 each plus $3 shipping for 10 of em.

The local electronics store can get them for $6 each.

PopaPork

HAHAHA. That is good. You know I sent the chip to you, you can deny it all you like, but the chip was sent back to you, and for the reason of the ping. I would have never sent the chip back to you if A) It was good and B) if you didnt tell me to send it back and you would adjust the timing on it. If you are talking about the second chip that you said you sent, but never got here...no I dont have that chip either. That was why I offered to give you and extra 20 bucks so you buy a new chip and so you can send the chip UPS, cuz that way I would have to sign for it and there would be a tracking number, in case this, "mix up, lost chip" happened again. When I offered the 20 bucks and the reason for sending it UPS you had no problem with it. And you must not have had any problems cuz that day the 20 bucks was gone from my Pay pall Account. Yes the first chip did help me beat my friend in his Bird, but the ping was horrible. I adjusted the timing cuz you told me too, to try to get rid of the ping and when it did nothing for me, I put it back like you told me. And for the record, you never kept in touch with me, I would try to ask you questions and I would either get ignored, or you would sign off and and few times you would warn me. Care to explain that? Also care to answer why you told me you had the chips, that they just came in from JDR, and you would send them out that day?(which was a monday to be exact) And if you think JDR is the only company that sells these chips you are lazy as some one else stated. Becuase of this expierance I went online and found at least ONE company that sells chips for MY car. So that excuse doesnt work. Your stories dont mix to well. If you never had the chips why say that? So please do not flatter your self in thinking I want your greatness to burn me another chip. Cuase that is the least thing from my mind. But whatever.....

Update*** Just checked my Pay Pal account. The 20 bucks was actually 16 so i am sorry for the 4 dollar screw up. BUUUUT. The money was takin out the 24th of April the say day I put the money in the account, by the one and only you. The orginal chip was purchased on dec 19 and the money was taken out of the account the same day again, and taken out by WOW, you. Funny huh. That equals 66 dollar.....and no chip. Hmmm..............

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89 RS Camaro
Hedman Headers, Highflow Cat, Flowmaster 80 Series
180 Degree Thermo
Open Air Element with K&N Air Filter
Custum Burned Chip

So Many Mods......so little time

www.rit.edu/~cjp8408
AIM: PopaPork

[This message has been edited by PopaPork (edited September 01, 2001).]

Jim 86 Bird

it cost you 20 dollars to buy one eprom from a company???? man, Pork's not the only one who got burned, hahahaha

At least YOU got some grief outta this by paying 20 bucks a chip Synergy.

Grumpy

Are your eyes Brown?.
This is the funniest line of nonsense I think I've ever heard.
If you only get one prom from each TDF file, you really should stick to carbs.
The more you reply the sillier it gets. Oh, ignore that last comment, I enjoy the humor.
I'll make ya a deal, 2732s $10 a piece (limit of 30), and I'll pay the shipping. Just think of the savings, you could really afford to sell chips then.

Guest

What kinda comment is that?
Gee, I'm not sure... I think thats what the eprom equipment and extra parts I have here are for.

Try to play nice or I wont anymore.

Synergy

You know what Bruce ? You're nothing buy a C_OCKY ignorant *****. Shut up and just stay out of this. Nobody gives a sh_it about what you have to say.

Popapork, are you trying to convince me I didnt transfer the funds from PayPal by accentuating the words "YOU" ? I KNOW I DID... DOH! Should I have left the money in your account for a couple more days so you can feel better ? The 16 bucks I asked WAS to cover the cost of an extra 2732 chip. And YES I did have to buy the TDF for your car since I really never had a use for it until then.

From now on, it seems that EVERYBODY is against me and I'm the bad guy. Because of that I will not try to defend myself anymore because it's just not worth it. Popapork GOT a chip for what we agreed for... 50 dollars. I never guaranteed it's gonna be perfect for his car as no chip tuner when they do chips by mail. If he feels so unhappy I will go ahead and send him back the 16 dollars for the second chip and I will consider my conscience clean.

[This message has been edited by Synergy (edited September 01, 2001).]

PopaPork

Thank you.

------------------
89 RS Camaro
Hedman Headers, Highflow Cat, Flowmaster 80 Series
180 Degree Thermo
Open Air Element with K&N Air Filter
Custum Burned Chip

So Many Mods......so little time

www.rit.edu/~cjp8408
AIM: PopaPork