ImportsRsloths

I just ordered one.... cost dam near $400 after all the little junk...... just wondering how good these custom chips are as I hear they are the best...... what was your 1/4 before and after???:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

tpi_roc

I have no experience but just from reading people who have used them, and people who have used hte lesser chips, If i was evern a desperate bind where I couldn't burn my own i'd probably only buy one from ed. However being the cost is way more than buying ALL the equip to burn your own, it hardly makes sense

johndo1707

fastchip.com gurantees there chip to be the fastest, so if your worried, do a little test seeing how usually you have 30 days to try them out. i'd personally am going with fastchip once my new motor is finished. good luck

RedIrocZ-28

First let me start off by stating that I am by no means a newbie, pay no attention to that stupid post count over there.

BURN YOUR OWN CHIPS!!!! THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR IT. ED WRIGHT DOES DO GOOD WORK BUT HIS CHIPS ARE A STEP ABOVE THE REGULAR HYPERJUNK CHIPS. UNLESS ED HAS YOUR CAR ON A DYNO HE CANNOT MAKE IT PERFORM TO ITS FULLEST POTENTIAL!

Go ask Glenn in the DIY PROM board, he says anyone can improve upon all the aftermarket chips once they buy all the equipment (which only costs $200) and put in a little bit of time to learn the basics. I can't stress enough that paying $400 for 1 chip is rediculous when YOU can fine tune your engine for roughly 1/2 of the price and you can burn a chip as many times as you want! Eraseable EPROMS rock!

If no price is too high to pay for your car, then buying the programming equipment and learning how to do it is not out of the question.

tpi_roc

Amen bruthah

Ed Maher

The important thing to rememeber about burning your own PROMs is all the extra stuff you can do that you won't get with an aftermarket chip. Little stuff like setting your fan on temps (no need to buy fan switches and install them), dialing in your idle speed exactly how you like it, disabling trouble codes or functions like EGR if need be, torque converter clutch lock up points, enabling highway mode, etc.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

you can do all that for little over 200?

how could you loose?

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I agree, don't pay all that and learn.

CORKVETTE1

CAN SOME ONE GIVE ME A LIST OF WHAT I NEED TO BUY AND WHERE TO GET THEM FROM TO BURN MY OWN PROMS I HAVE A 85 VETTE THANKS IN ADVANCE

Ed Maher

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but if you need to be personally handed the information you might as well not get into PROM burning. The info you want is VERY readily available. If you can't find it then i'm sure you're not trying AT ALL. And if you're the type of person that won't do any looking for himself, you're not going to accomplish much in the world of PROM burning.
Hate to sound like an ***, but when it comes to PROM burning, with the strides we've made recently, noone should have to hold your hand. If you need your hand held, well you're just not ready to get into it then.
Do some searching, EVERYTHING you need to know is on these boards. If you find yourself wanting to ask a basic question, you better make sure it hasn't been covered before. DIY PROM is one place where you can be sure that a little legwork goes a long way.

89Raptor

Let's see about a year ago or so GMHTP went to the dragstrip with a knowledgeable chip burner and tried and tried and tried to improve on Magnum TPI's times with the new heads, SuperRam, 58mmTB and headers and did nothing but go slower and slower. They ran best with an off the shelf Jet chip.
What's my point unless you are willing to spend mucho grande hours learning the intricacies and in's and out's of chip burning, and don't plan on a lot of future mods or none. Get one burned by a good tuner and save yourself the headache of trying to learn it and burn it. Then go out and try it, if you have to get them to burn another one until they get it right.

Ed Maher

GMHTPs Magnum TPI car is the biggest flop in history. They couldn't get that thing ot of the 13s no matter what they did, while at the same time several of our members had simlar cars running way into the 12s at 6-10mph faster than they were getting.

In other words, don't listen to advice from them on that combo unless you want to go slow. I mean really. I don't care if their best ET was with a stock V6 chip. If it's 10mph slower than what everybody else is running with the same combo, their advice is useless and should not be followed. Unless of course you're also trying to go slow.

CORKVETTE1

i am not being lazy by not looking but i am the type to jump right in to a project and possibly buy the wrong parts the first time. everything done to my car was done by me and nobody else and considering it all ready goes mid 11s at 117 mph i think i do believe i am not lazy or not going to acomplish any thing i just need some direction i never did it before so it sounds taboo to me but once i do it a couple of times with some guidance i think i could master this too

Ed Maher

So did you even try finding this information yourself?

Maybe i'm being a little mean, as apparently it hasn't even occurred to you to find this information yourself. Consider this your formal invitation to start looking around. As i said in my other post, every basic newbie question you could have has been beaten into the ground. Every question in your post is in fact answered in ONE document on this website. And from there, every elementary tuning question you could have has been answered in at least a few posts, including probably some highly technical answers. And thats not even including the wealth of information available on diy-efi.

But like i said in my post, noone is going to hand this stuff to you. Maybe you should start here: https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/promintro.shtml

Then start searching the DIY PROM board for all your basic query needs. Notice the 'search' part. You're not the first person who is new to PROM burning, so most likely any question you have, someone else already asked. You're only hurting yourself if you don't try to take in past posts / experiences, and you're wasting someone elses time if you haven't even tryed looking for yourself.

btw, the underlying reason no one wants to simply hand anyone the answers is simple. To get into PROM burning you have to really learn to think about what you're doing. If your FIRST reaction to something is to start asking question w/o trying to understand it yourself then you're only going to get much more hung up on something bigger later. It's hard to directly relate it, but the best analogy for me is to relate it to the academic world or engineering. In either if you simply start running off to ask a senior level person questions everytime something goes wrong, you're not learning anything and are simply acting as a puppet. Instead the quest is to try to learn everything possible and then be able to relate to senior people on their terms. The PROM board is (well in theory should be) a gathering place for real advancement to the diy-efi cause. The past posts and occasioanlly new stuff should serve as your text books, along with all the goodies from www.diy-efi.org .

Really, i'm not trying to be an *** about this, it's just the direct voice i use in posts. I'm not venting emotion at you here, i'm trying to explain why you need to do your legwork. If you didn't pick it up from above, i'm a computer engineer and i work as an eectrical engineer. If i chose, i could rewrite a PROM to make my ECM run a blender, in fact i built a single board motorola based computer as a project once. I've had the PROM burning equipment and software for over a year now. And you know what, i'm still very much a newbie because i honestly have not invested much time in all of this. I guess i take for granted a lot of the basics i knew, but at the same time, i can fully recognize how absolutely trivial such questions are. I honestly see it as if you can get hung up on the way in the door, well you're just not going to be able to make the commitment to do this stuff.

CORKVETTE1

see ed i am a engine guy i forgot more than most people know including you about engines and cars in general see i can come off as a *** if i want too like dont you think that 14:3 et on your camaro is pathetic well if you wanted my advice on how to make it run i would give it because i like helping people out sometimes even people who doesnt know as much as me do you drag that car much ill bet you i could help you that too since i have been racing since the early 80s and i am not talking about slow cars either this mid 11s vette is one of my slowest i ever owned i was runing 10s in the late 80s all i was looking for was some quick awnswers to this prom burning episode iwill try to investigate this a little further

Grim Reaper

Cork, did you look at the links I and others gave you on your post on the DIY Prom Board? They should get you started in the "right direction" and then you can ask specific questions as you get ready to purchase the various equipment and or start using it.

But do use the "search" feature on the DIY Prom Board. There are thousands of questions that have been asked all ready and you can learn a lot from the archives.

If you are good at "tuning" engines with a carb, then you will LOVE eprom burning. The principles (controlling fuel and spark) are the same - just the way you do it.

The big question you will need to ask yourself is whether you should change to the later MAF (165) or go straight for SD (more intuitive to tune for fuel once you understand the concept of Volumetric Efficiency).

People just get a little "frayed" with these "prom burning questions" because they have been literally asked a thousand times and there have been some VERY detailed and great explanations of why you should do certain things. We have even taken all those responses and made them into articles (at people's request) BUT NO BODY SEEMS TO READ THEM??????

What is written in those articles can never be duplicated because no one is going to go through the time and engery to write what took weeks to write. At best, "newbie posts" get a "short brief response" generally pointing them to the article until the poster has a "specific question".

PS: I've "improved" every custom eprom INCLUDING Ed Wright's eproms. There is no way they are as good as tuning your own, since the writer doesn't have actual access to your car. It's like sending your carb out and having someone "preset it" and expecting it to be perfect. Any good tuner knows you can't do that, yet people think they can do that with an eprom (which is even more complex).

CORKVETTE1

thank you for a more civil reply

Grim Reaper

Cork, we are always looking for guys that have "engine experience" on the DIY Prom Board, especially those that know how to tune their engine (albeit with a carb/dist).

Personally, I would say the "older carb guys" once they grasp the concepts of "computers" (and there are tools to make it so much easier today) area far more successful at "tuning their engine". This is not to say that "youner guys" don't get "just as good". It just seems the area of the "learning curve" is different.

The people that are "afraid of eprom burning" are really afraid of "engine tuning" plain and simple. They give a LOT of excuses as to why they can't/won't do it (so be it), but the bottom line is they don't have any clue on how to tune an engine, whether EFI or carb.

And YES, the fundamentals of "tuning" is the more difficult part - but it does come with time and patience. It's amazing how just a "few degrees" of spark advance can be the difference in whether an engine runs optimally, too slow or detonates like crazy.

But this is ALWAYS what has separated the guy that runs "Second Place" from the guy that WINS. If you want to be Second, buy an eprom - just don't expect it to be optimal. If you want to be first, learn the fundamentals of tuning and burn your own eprom - itls the only way it can be optimal.

But I suspect that I don't need to explain that to you, or you wouldn't be asking how to "burn an eprom" in the first place. But maybe some of the younger guys need to hear this.

Ed Maher

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest cuz it's just silly. Wow you have a fast car, whoopie, if i had a cage and the spare coin i'd build a fast engine too. Maybe i don't have years of experience doing it, but i do know enough people and have seen it done enough to be comfortable saying that if i wanted to run 11s i could do it, AND have EFI.
As it stands i'm doing what i can with a stock unopened 305 just to prove what can be done with it. For a heavy car so far running all stock parts i'm not doing bad. And considering this weenie motor is going to be enough to get me kicked out of the track (13s, no cage, bye bye, i've already been getting warnings too so apparently they don't take this reg lightly)

I'm sorry my tone rubs you the wrong way. I guess you missed the point of my last post. I'm not trying to be an ***. I just always sound that way when i post. Regardless, i do convey information.

Look at it this way. Say you just rolled back into the pits after a run at the strip and some kid drives up in a honda and wants to talk. This could go a couple ways:
-Right off the bat the kid starts saying how he wants to have a really fast american car, and what all do you have, and how do you tune it, and how do you put it together and what does it cost, etc.
or...
-He starts talking about how he's been trying to get into a fast american car and he's been reading some rags and getting the basics. He knows things like bore/stroke, some brands of good heads, a little on cams, compression, etc.

Now, wtf can you possibly say to the first kid except man you're so far behind the curve and you're not even trying. You don't know **** and now you're trying to jump in the middle of a thrash session in the pits to ask elementary questions. Your best bet is to tell him to pick up some rags and maybe some reference materials (stuff like how to modify fuel injection, how to tune by john racer, etc)
Now the second kid, you can chat with. You can tell him how you like brands of heads and why, or how you picked your cam / stall / gear, etc.

Now if you look at my first post to you. Yes i was blunt, what did i tell you? Look at the tech article and do some searches to get a grasp of basic concepts of PROM burning. As a matter of fact the word lazy never even came up in my post, you inferred it yourself. All i did was tell you exactly what you needed to know. And you know what, thats what i'm here for, to give people the best information i can, not to be a nice loveable guy (hell, i hate myself half the time )

sIcK pUpPy

Cork,
The DIY PROM guys can be a little high strung at times, especially Ed (I think he might wear his underwear a little too tight, sorry ed ).

The information that you are looking for is right in the DIY PROM board. Just start reading the posts and doing searches on specific topics. All newbies come on these boards and post the same questions over and over again. The veterans just get a little weary (and terse) about rehashing the same Q's.

Not that they aren't all about helping, but are now in the mode of making people self-sufficent. Everyone here is for the same thing and are really a bunch of great people (except that Gai-Boy...I'd like to meet that little ***** in a dark alley). So, the best thing I can impart to you is patience and understanding.

WELCOME TO THIRDGEN!!!!

Lates,
JD

Z28DJP1987

The DIY GUYS strike again. The same answer" BURN YOUR OWN".
:hail: :hail: :hail: They have their own Tech Board, Why can't they stay on it?? Other opinions may be helpful.

Grim Reaper

Sure, if you want to be "second" or "bad advice". But if you wan the "truth"...then we'll tell it like it is. Most of us DIY Prom guys (myself included) HAVE access to ALL of those custom burn prom BINs and have compared them to the "stock" bin. You'd be surprise 'what crap' people are selling you at $400 a pop.

A few buddies that had those "wonderful custom eproms" from the various "experts" (including Ed Wright) were quite surprised when I showed them "how close" to stock they really are. AND, how easily I was able to get MORE POWER out them.

The response has always been the same "DAMN, I WASTED MY MONEY"!

It's your money, waste it as you wish.

8Mike9

Damn, you naysayer's really should listen up to thoise who know. Getting an engine to run "okay" will satisfy a lot of people, but getting it to run "just right" is the challenge that a lot of us like, and aspire to do.

Don't knock the DIY PROM guys for offering thier opinion, it's based on fact as it pertains to how to make your setup the best it can be...after all, isn't that why we all come here?

86TpiTransAm

I agree that the DIY Prom guys know what they're talking about and shouldn't be dissed for offering opinions, no matter how unrealistic to your current situation they are.

I myself have done a bit of the "dissing" when it comes to these guys. They do know what they're do and have good ideas and good intentions.

However, I feel the arguement of "DIY" vs "Buy One" is yet another pointless arguement that's added to my list along with "MAF" vs "SD" and "160 thermostat" vs "180 thermostat"

There will NEVER be a 100% agreement on any of these arguements and you should do what you feel most comfortable with, what you have time for, and what you have the money for.

"DIY" can be very time consuming from the little research that I have done on it. Some people also feel a little "scared" possibly that they're going to do something majorly wrong and mess up the engine they spent hundreds, possibly thousands, building.

Personally, I went with an Ed Wright fastchip. This is just a temporary measure for me. The reason behind doing this is simple. 1. It's going to be faster than the stock chip while I'm continually reasearching on burning my own and 2. It gives me a little added help by letting me compare the Ed Wright chip to the stock chip. There may be minimal help in doing this but every little bit helps when trying to learn about the intricacies involved in chip burning.

One more thing ... some of us don't have the mental capacities to even attempt the DIY chip burning. My hats off to those who can pick up the technique easily.

Grumpy

You've already given up to even post something like that.
There are editors for doing all the hex to binary conversion, and factoring. All you need to do is figure out more or less timing or fuel and where to change it.
You've already shown you have some computer skills by even being able to post here, so if you have any aptitude to actually just do it, you can just do it.
Some of us have spent years writting about promming to make it a no brainer for the new guy. To say you don't get it or don't have the aptitude to get it, is a real losers statement in my book.

Sorry to rant but you touched a nerve with that poorly informed statement.

Grim Reaper

Bruce, are you slumming again? (j/k)

But I too have to agree with Bruce that it's not a "black science or alchemy" when it comes to tuning eproms.

The "mechanics" of burning eproms is SO SIMPLE it's a laugh. Yes, the "tuning" part is a bit more difficult, but even that - most people can burn a better eprom than ANY of those "off-the-shelf" eproms in a day or so - that's how little they do.

I definitely feel that guys who can "tune an engine" with a Carb/reg. dist. generally have an easier time grasping "eprom burning" once they learn the "mechanics". But it doesn't mean that a person who has NEVER tuned an engine can't do it either.

They just have "more to learn". And what they learn is "how to diagnos their motor". While I wouldn't say I knew nothing about my 3rd Gen before I ever got into eprom burning, I definitley refined my knowledge thanks to eprom burning. Because I am not afraid to "experiment" I have probably triggered more SES codes in the last year than I ever got from my car in the 11 years that I've owned it.

Those SES codes taught me "why in the hell does the ECM even trigger a particular code in the first place". But it really let's you know what the ECM is REALLY doing inside.

Also, I've learnt more about "what mods REALLY work and which ones do absolutely nothing". I can tell you right now, a relocated MAT on a MAF car does NOTHING (well, not exactly it causes the EGR to stop working in cool weather vs cold weather). And the TRUE EFFECTS of a 160 vs 180 vs 195 T-stat.

Yes, some will "get the breeze" real fast, while others have to "struggle" a bit more. But I think Bruce said it right when he said "if you can communicate on the Internet, you already are bright enough to learn how to burn an eprom".

The real danger is when you start to get results and "THINK" you now are an expert and then do something silly. As long as you give yourself a "good dose of humility", remember to make only "one change at a time", and make "good notes". You'll impress yourself in what you are truly able to accomplish.

86TpiTransAm

I wasn't referring to myself specifically, I was just stating that there are people out there that have a hard time learning new things.

To say that it's a "no brainer" is a bit over exaggerating as well. Some people just tend to be able to pick things up quick whereas others have to do twice the reading and reasearch in order to actually "figure it out". Then there are some people that don't work well with numbers and most likely would never be able to learn how to burn their own chips. Perfect example, my best friend. The guy can use a computer and posts here on thirdgen quite often but the guy can't even count back change to a customer if he had to and has no concept what so ever on electronics or wiring. These are things that I, myself, find quite easy to do. People are different plain and simple.

In regards to that, I do say that everyone that's curious about the ECM and wanting to know whether to go "DIY" or "Buy One" should definitely do some reasearch and take a look at the "DIY" option before finally coming to a decision on which way to go.

Grim Reaper

I'll agree with that. They owe it to themselves simply because it is far simpler than the "custom eprom writers" would have you believe.

Think about it, how many guys that have this "mysterious skill" are making money off people (by selling eproms) instead of teaching them how to do it? We (the DIY guys) make NOTHING from helping people. How many can say that.

drive it

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, but I had to add my 2 cents.....Even though I've now burned a couple hundred proms between my car and a few friends that like to wrench I still consider myself a newbie so am I a DIY GUY?.....
Anyway- after dropping in my new engine I went to a "custom tuner" -on site dyno tuning-for $650.00. Turned out he didn't know diddly (no wide band either!) and the car still ran like crap.
I then tried a "mail order" chip-after numerous tries it was closer but audibly pinged badly.
That's when I started researching and bought the equipment needed to start-and now I can safely say that it's amazing I didn't kill that new engine that I worked so hard to put together!!!!
Not even considering the drivability issues-it was at 14:1 at WOT and maxing the knock retard.
So if you're throwing out the $$$ for significant mods then yes, pop a few more $$ and some more time to learn to burn.
If you're doing basic bolt ons, then yes you could get by with a "mail order" chip( though not optimal!), but at least take it to a dyno with a wide band O2 sensor to make sure it isn't dangerously lean-I'd just hate to see anyone waste your engine!!!!

Grim Reaper

Thanks for the "testimonial" Drive It. I know quite a few guys on the DIY Prom Board came there specifically because they had a similar experience to yours - couldn't get a good custom eprom to make their modified engine run right.

But regarding "basically stock engines", I will think that is the PERFECT time to learn eprom burning AND it really should be the FIRST thing they do to their engine. I say this because, even though I was interested (and investigating) eprom burning quite a while ago just because I had tried a few of those "off-the-shelf eproms". My ultimate goal was to modify my engine and I knew I would need a custom eprom to make it work. So I felt it was easier to learn while my engine is still "basically stock".

I will say that the number of modifications to my "basically stock" eprom has resulted in well over 30% of all the data area being changed. There are more changes to my eprom than any custom eprom I have seen guys get (where the info wasn't scrambled/rearragned).

But, since my engine is still basically stock, I took advantage of the fact to begin diving into the "Source Code". Again, because my engine is still basically stock, I can see if my alteration to the actual Source Code actually worked and if it gave the results I desired.

I say that learning how to burn an eprom should be your FIRST modification that you do your car IF you plan to modify the motor in the future. Even if you leave you engine completely stock, a person will (should) get a performance increase, improved driveability and better gas mileage....I did.

sIcK pUpPy

I haven't started burning PROM's, YET! But it's definately on the top 3 "to-do" list. and I to, will be one o' the eliete! See you on the DIY board .


JD

e-man

I have Ed's fastchip and let me tell you there is so much damn timing in it my knock sensor goes crazy.I bought the prom burning stuff by the first burn it ran better than with the fastchip.

86TpiTransAm

And for us people who have to change engines because the stock one was about to die and went ahead and modified it so we didn't have to go back later and do it .... we get screwed. So now we have to jump in feet first and try to learn everything all at once. Kinda sucks but it's gotta be done. Someday I hope to learn how to burn my own chip. Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of extra cash lying around to buy burning equipment with. The ONLY reason I got my new engine in the first place was because of income tax and I'm not going to see that again for quite awhile.

Grim Reaper

Have you scoped out Traxion's article on the DIY Prom Board and seen how much (or should say how little) you can get into eprom burning?

$149.00 for the Pocket Programmer and $5-10 for a "Flash Prom" (avoids needing an eraser). Though I love TunerCat, you can use "WinBin" to alter the "BIN" (the actaul program that is on the eprom) and use Craig's scan tool software on "donation". Pick up a cheap 386 or 486 notebook at a "Thrift Store" or "Used Computer Store" for virtually nothing. And that's it.

For MAF users, they generally "convert" to the "ARAP BIN" which was for 1989s and you just disable the Cold Start Injector. There's a few "changes" most guys need to do to make the ARAP work as a "basic BIN" but that is well documented on the DIY Prom Board if you search on "ARAP".

Then, you just play with "timing" and that's about it to burn an eprom. Yes, it sounds simple - but that's just it - IT IS SIMPLE and IT IS CHEAP. Just about the same price as one of those "off-the-shelf" Hyperjunk/ADS/Jet chips and a lot cheaper than a "custom eprom".

BTW, on MOST "custom eproms" that I have ever looked at for MAF cars, they almost always use the ARAP as "their base". That's why I role with laughter when I see a MAF owner buying a "custom eprom" - they are basically buying the "ARAP" BIN which GM developed and making a few "tweaks".

Now, in "tuning" your spark and PE tables to obtain "perfection", yes, it will probably take some time BUT you'll NEVER get that from a custom eprom writer either. You are just going to get a version of the ARAP BIN with some "toning down" of the spark tables (because the ARAP is generally too agressive).

To burn a "working version of ARAP" for the average "newbie" will take maybe a day. And, with more time, they can have a "hell of a lot more".

Now, for SD owners, they have to do a little bit more "initial work". But they have their own advantages too when it comes to "precision".

86TpiTransAm

I've looked at Traxions article quite a bit and been to many of the resource pages. Is using Craig's software with a laptop better than an AutoXray?? The thing is, I have an AutoXray and if I used Craig's software I'd have to buy a laptop and a communication cable (since I've looked into building my own and just can't figure it out).

$149 for the burner and $10 for the flash prom sounds reasonable. TunerCat I'm sure has more features and flexibility than the free WinBin ... or so I've heard. That's another $70 and then $20 for the definition file. $250 and I can get started. Maybe in 2 or 3 months I can have that kind of "extra" cash.

By the way, what definition file do I need to use if I were going to use the ARAP bin and do I need a different definition file for each bin that I'm going to read or modify?

Grim Reaper

In your case, I would start out a CHEAPLY as possible: burner and Flash Prom.

You should get a 1989 Memcal and you may wish to consider "Craig's adapter" which allows you to install a Flash Prom (without any soldering) directly into the adapter. And then, you plug the adapter and stock Memcal back into the ECM. This way, if you "programming" is wrong..you just install you stock Memcal back in.

The advantage to Craig's software is that you can capture the data while your are driving so you don't constantly have to watch it. But you can "delay" this until you get more cash. Same with TunerCat...WinBin is free and you can do it NOW. So it's really on they Burner, a Flash Prom and probably an "adapter" like Craig's made (I think he's asking $30 for that).

Again, just scope out the DIY Prom Board and do a search on "Craig". You'll find "everything".

Also, on those "Flash Proms" do a search on "Flash Prom" and "29C256"... you'll quickly see why a Flash Prom is "so desireable".

86TpiTransAm

The AutoXray lets me record data while I'm driving so I don't have to watch it. I think it records 30 seconds or 1 minute.... something like that. It'll work for now I think. I'm sure Craig's software has some better features and options so it will be a future item I'm sure.

Thanks again Glenn... maybe within the next month I'll be burning my own chips.

Oh yeah, one other thing.... I know the bins are easy to find but I can't find the definition files for use with WinBin and the GM ECM guys are no help. They just tell me to build my own and leave it at that. How do they expect me to learn when they won't teach.

e-man

Just to help glen prove his point more the hypertech thermomaster I have is stock programing with the ARAP spark tables and a lower fan temp for turning them on."THATS IT" they didnt touch any of the fuel tables.$215 wasted on that hyperjunk chip.

Ricktpi

Here's another one: I had a Hyperjunk chip, car ran low 14's - high 13's & wouldn’t idle. I put a Accel Super Ram on & got a chip from Ed Wright (didn’t know about chip burning at the time). The car idled ok but had flat spot at mid range. Ed reburned it. Cold start wasn’t right. He reburned again. Its ok now. The car runs 13.19 now. I know it can be better. I am considering Holley 950 system. Any feedback on this ? I know you will say “burn your own”, but the Holley 950 will allow me to change to speed density & control nitrous, along with data logging, programming on the fly, & get everything from one source.