klumb15

iTrader: (1)

i'm doing a T5 swap, and i'm about to the put the trans and clutch and everything in, but i wanted to do a few preventive maintance things before it all went in, so i got the clutch inspected, got the flywheel turned, got a new clutch slave assembly cuz i broke the other one, and my mechanic said I should get a new throw out bearing. So I went to the parts store today, and they said they had 2 different kinds, self aligning, and non self aligning...which one do I get, or doesn't it matter? theres like a 15 dollar difference inbetween them, not like that matters...

also, not very knowledgable in manuals, just getting into them, but where is the throwout bearing, and do I need anything specail to put it in?

And anybody tuning in here, i hear that you have to align your clutch with a clutch alignment tool, havn't really heard on how to do it, but i guess the tool is only like 3 bucks, could somebody give me a quick breifing on how to do this...

thanks, sorry if these are dumb questions, gotta learn somehow tho...

iroctj

Your cutch align tool comes with a new clutch kit. It is just a piece of plastic that looks like ur input shaft on ur trans, so the clutch and pressure plate are in correct alignment. The throwout bearing is a metal insert that the imput shaft goes into the flywheel(-need special tool to remove). And i have never heard of a self or non align throwout bearing, but if so get self align, good luck

84z28350

What the F$@^....


The throwout bearing is the one that sits on the input shaft neares the tranny, when the fork that is actuated by the clutch slave cylinder make contact it pushes the bearing into the pressure plate arms releasing the pressure on the disc.

Sounds like you were talking about the pilot bearing...

Ive also never heard of their being two kinds of throwouts...

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

myself as well, I just bought a "throw out bearing for an '82 firebird". done deal.

Perhaps it's the difference of having the "cuts" on the back lip, like the stock one. The stock one you can pull off without removing the bellhousing from the trans due to that, where the aftermarket ones you have to seperate the bellhousing from trans.... ? maybe that's it eh?

ps. I rented a clutch alignment tool, since I didn't buy a new clutch, I didn't get a freebie tool. The rental tool was $40 (valued at), so it was probably a better quality one. I still had to do it 3 times to get it right, it's hard!

T5 swap, in case you didn't know, you need to put a pilot bearing into the back end of your crank shaft. You can use a pilot bushing (brass tube), or a pilot bearing (roller pin bearing). There's variable opinions on which is better, I have a bearing FWIW. Make sure you have the taper on the inside hole, facing backwards, that makes connecting trans to motor easier. (even if you've got the clutch aligned slightly off).
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oh yea, look for any post by sofakingdom or RB83L69 re: TO bearing. There's a right and wrong way to do it, and the wrong way seems right at the time, and will cause goofy problems later. hint: tangs hanging out back, NOT on the fork.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

well i got the one that was "self aligning", because my mechanic said then I won't have to worry about it, because he hasn't heard of the 2 different ones either...

but as far as aligning the clutch, i'm not getting a new clutch just yet, so I don't have the tool, but I can borrow one from my mechanic no problem... I've never aligned a clutch before, you just bolt the flywheel up, then put the clutch and pressure plate on, at what time do you align it?

and about this pilot bearing on the crankshaft. Haven't heard this one yet? what do I ask for when I go to the parts store? just a pilot bearing or what? any special tools needed for this?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

hold your clutch and pressure plate in hand, hold it up to the motor, and put on the bolts finger tight. (use clutch bolts, not hardware store bolts). The alignment tools tip will go into your pilot bearing, and a tapered part will hold your clutch up in the center, push on that to center it, and tighten your bolts in a criss cross pattern, torque up over a few passes. make sure you have lockwashers or loctite on the threads. visually inspect the clutch friction disc, with it's inner splines, is lined up concentric with the pilot bearing. *Perfectly*. Or do it again, it's easier now then later....

pilot bearing, yea, one from the parts store is probably a bushing, just a bronze sleeve. It's easier on your input shaft in case of misalignment, but has a bit more friction. The roller ones have less friction, but are harder, so the input shaft wears, rather then the cheap bearing (in case of misalingment of failure.) your call.

if your crankshaft is in the motor that had an autotrans connected to it before, then it won't have a pilot bearing in it (otherwise you'd have to remove the old one). Use a socket about the size of the bearing, and beat the sucker in.

rageracing

In regards to the clutch alignment tool-
You should be able to pick one up at your local parts store. It's, as stated above, just a peice of plastic that looks like the transmission output shaft.

The purpose of the clutch alignment tool is so when you are installing the clutch and pressure plate you can keep it lined up as you are torquing the bolts down. (it's suppose to act as the output shaft would if the trans was attached)
Basically the process is:
Attach the pressure plate and clutch to the Flywheel but do not tighten down the bolts.
While you can still move the presure plate, insert the clutch alignment tool through the clutch and pressure plate. Make sure it pushes into the pilot bearing. (which is the small hole in the back of the block)
Once you have the clutch alingment tool inserted and lined up you should be ready to torques down the clutch.

By using the clutch alignment tool you will make sure your pressure plate is lined up on the flywheel, which will allow the assembly to operate properly avoid any unesesary wear. Hope this helps!

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

yes sir it did. Whats the torque specs on all of those bolts?

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

okay sounds good for the pilot bearing, I got everything ready to go in. I'll just pick up that pilot bearing tomorrow. are pilot bearings vehicle specific? just say I need one for a 90 firebird formula (donor car), do I have to specify which one? (there is one on the trans too right?)

anything else you think i'm forgetting?

thanks.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

the pilot bearing goes in the crank, so it's motor specific. It'll be the same for all SBC's I think. pilot bearing for the motor side, throw out bearing for the trans side. Do make sure you find that picture, the "famous picture", by RB83l69, so you get it in right, it'll suck to have to redo it.

use loctite on your flexplate bolts on the crank, the red stuff. I would get new flexplate and flywheel bolts since they're cheap.

I don't know the torque specs offhand, I just go by the size of the bolt, bigger bolts get more torque

that should be it, just make sure you don't hang the tranny by the input shaft, thats very bad. Don't use the bellhousing bolts to pull the trans into the motor, if it doesn't plug in easily, re align the clutch and try again. You'll need help holding the trans in place while you put in some bolts finger tight.

Good luck.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

okay sounds good. new pilot bearing, assembly, gently slide things together, dont' force, tighten some bolts, got it...

one more question for underneath the car, kind of off track from throwout bearing, but is there a difference in torque arm mounts between a T5 and auto? or do I just bolt my mount right back on the trans like normal?

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...g?d=1140318560

is that the pic? the part that is still kind of sticking out of the inside of the crank is the bearing right? also does the throwout and pilot need any grease? should anything be greased on the trans before i put it up?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

yes, that's a pic of the pilot bearing in the crank, that's a roller one. They a bit more $ then a standard pilot bushing (solid). Your call on that one.
grease inside and outside of pilot bearing, make it easier to get in. if the hole in the crank has some rust and scale, wipe it with sandpaper to clean it up. Make sure you find the picture of a pilot bearing, search "pilot bearing on backwards" or something. The spring tangs DO NOT go over the fork fingers.

grease the inside of the pilot bearing going onto the tranny input shaft. grease all sorts of places, if metal is moving on metal, grease it! Your clutch fork pivot point etc...

not sure about the torque arm, should be the same torque arm bushing, not sure if the mount on the trans is the same, I hope you have the torque arm mount that goes with the T5, just in case...

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

lost me there. The bearing has 2 different sides, a flat enclosed side, then the open side where you can see the different "layers" of the bearing. Which way does it go again? also, do I tap that in all the way into the crank, as far as it goes?

what all entails for installing the throwout bearing, I want to make sure I'm doing this all right...

thanks guys

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I screwed up. I didn't mean to say pilot bearing. I mean to say throw out bearing. Make sure you put the throwout bearing on the trans input shaft/clutch fork, correctly. Look for the pic, you'll see what I mean.

hammer the PILOT BEARING into the crank until it's flush, maybe .030" deeper. It's basically a glorified tube ok? Looking from one side, the pilot bearing should have an inside fillet, that should be facing your tranny. Helps line up the input shaft while installing the trans.

the side that you can "see in the bearing", would probably go pointing towards the motor, so you have something to hammer on. Mine was enclosed on both sides. This is a roller style pilot bearing I assume then.



THROW OUT BEARING: unbolt your bellhousing from the tranny. I think it's an 18mm/T45, 4 bolts. Then tap it off with a rubber mallet, it's a tight fit. Then you can remove the clutch fork from the trans. then slide your new TO bearing onto the input shaft, and put the bellhousing back on, and slide your clutch fork fingers into the groove (1/4" wide or so) on the TO bearing. tighten the bolts, keep going.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

gotcha, I'll work on it tomorrow morning and see what I come up with. I tryed to get that bellhousing off already, and busted 1 bolt loose, thats it...but I'll go blast them with some thread breaker and wrench on them tomorrow..

I really appreciate all this help, you've been a huge help...thanks

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

for an update, got the pilot bearing in, got the clutch aligned and the pressure plate bolted down, haven't tryed the alignment with the trans yet, but I can slide the clutch alignment tool in and out very easily, so it should be good..

then i asked my mechanic to show me how to change the throwout bearing to double check, and he just pulled the fork forward, slid it on, and he said its good to go...didn't have to take the bellhosuing off or anything...so as far as getting the trans in, that pretty much wraps it up, but I have some more questions...

first off, does anybody have this part? https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...-you-have.html i've looked everywhere, i can't find one...if nobody can get me the nipple, i'm gonna have to find somebody that can machine it at a shop...

and somebody back me up, does a T5 take 10 pints? i bought 5 quarts, is that enough?

then, on the side of my trans(drivers side i believe), what are those 2 electrical plugs for? guessing the one in the back is a speedo, and maybe the front one is the nuetral saftey switch maybe??? my speedo is a cable I believe from my 700r4, how do I make that work now?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I think there's a plug for your reverse lights, other then that i'm not so sure.

well, I guess you're just plain lucky with the TO bearing, mine wasn't so easy. Perhaps yours has the ears on the backside (self aligning right?)... oh well, good luck on the rest.

Souseless

5 quarts is more than enough. Yes one is for speedo (rear plug) and the other is for reverse lights. If the trans is not in yet it would be a good idea to check the end play on the shafts. I will be going through much the same routine soon so I am going to add this to my favorites list for refference. good info in here.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

for the reverse lights i should be able to just get the 5 speed pigtail and plug, and splice into the exisiting reverse lights...they should be in the center console right?

somebody has to have the part laying around?? anybody? i'm desperate..lol

TheKeeling

Does anyone know that actual pressure plate bolt torque? I couldn't find it anywhere, so I just did 15 Ftlb on mine

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

35 for the pressure plate, 60 for the flywheel

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

Yep, that is all there is to it.
I can't remember if the connector is just a standard 2 prong weather pack male, if it is, pep boys sells them for about $5 with about 6 inches of wire.
I ran my wires up through the hole I cut for the shifter to the harness that attached to the Auto shifter.
your car should have the connector for the neutral safety switch that attaches to the clutch pedal, my 88 had it.
if you decide to bypass it, you can cut and attach the wires at the old shifter connector or the wires at the connector for the neutral safety switch behind the drivers side kick panel.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

yea i want to bypass that nuetral safety switch...what wires do I connect in the center console. I remember I had to jump 2 terminals when I tested the switch, but which wires would I connect to bypass it? I'm assuming the same wires, but I can't remember what they were..

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

I can't remember either.

HorseflyDF

Since I dont have a clutch pedal switch for now I left
the wires attached to the auto shifter switch which is pushed up
in the dash makes for a good cutoff switch : )..