online170

Hey Folks; i havent been here in a while.

I ended up selling my car, and im out of the thirdgen world. Dont worry, i still have the T56 it just has new plans .

I figured id let you folks know im selling some of the specialty 3rd gen T56 specific items. Please check the Classifieds for details.


Cheers.

robguitargod1

iTrader: (4)

Traitor!!!!! I just finished my swap actually.

Kurtis2short

Question I have a t56 and I'm swapping it into a t5 car now the clutch style is a pull on the t56 which the t5 is push I've heard of Kit that that have a push for the t56 since the pull has it's down flaws at engaging at high Rpms does anyone know of this kits and can they be used with the t5 style clutch cable and pedals

robguitargod1

iTrader: (4)

I'm not aware of said kit, but go with the T56 hydraulics, they rock.

Kurtis2short

Thefirst gen t56 behind the lt1s at high rpms wouldn't stay engaged and wouldn't activate until almost all the way up I have a procharged big block pushing 25 psi so I'm looking for the best set up I read about the push style clutches like 6 months ago in hot rod mag when they did the swap but can't remember the clutch company name it gives it a better hold and better clutch feel

robguitargod1

iTrader: (4)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ns-please.html

That's a thread I started. The autozone pressure plate/mcleod disk combo is about the best you can get and it's a little over $350 for both. You're going to have go with an LS1 T56 for the aftermarket clutch support.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

Your going to have to change the input shaft to a LS1 style and get a bell housing adapter to use the push type clutch. And you will have to shorten your drive line also.

Rich2279

iTrader: (7)

Wow, awesome thread! Very helpful.

online170

So i forgot i had said id comment on this later on, and here goes.

I have driven the following;

1) Gen1 350 with T56 in my bird (hydraulic)
2) Gen1 350 with T5 in my bird (hydraulic)
3) 455 olds with M-22 rock crusher in a 69 cutlass (mechanical)
4) Ford F-150 4.9L 6cyl, with the 5sp.
5) 2007 Mustang 4.0L with 5sp (hydraulic)
6) 2008 Bullitt Mustang with 4.6L and Tremec 5sp (hydraulic)
7) 1993 Saturn twin cam, with 5sp (mechanical)
8) 2002 Cavalier Ecotec with 5sp (hydraulic i think)
9) 1987 5.0L mustang, with a T5 and triple king cobra clutch (hydraulic)
10) 1983 Camaro Z-28 with a BW super T10 (mechanical)


Nicest travel to engagement feel (meaning 90% of the travel was engagement, and proportionate all the way thru, not just all at once near the end).
1) Close tie between the Bullitt and my T56
2) Muncie M-22 with A-body pedals (although incredibly stiff).
3) My SaturnThe pedals were smooth as butter. I think each of them required about the same amount of force. Something you wouldnt mind driving in rush hour traffic at all. On top of this, almost 80% of this travel which was just right, was engagement. Very nicely designed.


Bad engagement (too high, but bearable because of some travel)
1) 1983 Z-28 with BW super T10. It engaged reall high, and was very stiff.
2) the F-150 with the 4.9L V6.But the engagement was over the last 50% or so, so it was manageable.

Worst Engagement (too high, and all at once).
1) T5 in my bird
2) 2002 cavalierI think these are the two worst pedal engagements ive ever felt. They were so high, that i was practically kicking in my teeth with my left knee. Plus, only about 2% of this travel was engagment (way at the end). The T5 especially has this fulcrum point it feels like, where the power engages all at once, and it happens to be at a point where the pedal actually gets stiffer.

Bad pedal feel (way too short of travel)
1) 1987 5.0L mustang with the king cobra clutch.
2) the 2007 V6 mustang
Both of the cars above felt like they had maybe 2" of travel and it was very hard to take off smoothly, but would probably be awesome for racing.



So honestly, i dont know what you guys have driven that has the perfect engagement, but i dont think it gets any better than this.

Webmouth247

iTrader: (1)

ok... i got a question...
im having board member porkyzilla complete my t-56 swap.
my question is... do i need to do anything with my ecm or chip? my car is a 1989 5.7 tpi auto. Please help. im lost in this area.

camarodave988

Hey hows it goin. wondering if u could help. i just brought my t56, crossmember, hydrolics, short throw shifter, and now im looking for the flywheel. i saw a centerforce flywheel thats for the t56 with a 2 peice rms but it says its exturnally balanced on ebay. The one from summit is internal. What is the difference and would it work or no? im just trying to get all the parts so i can start on it. It is bolting onto a plain boring 1985 305 engine. The part has two days left so i could really use the help. Thanks

online170

unless youre running a SBC 400 or most big blocks (with the exception of the 427) you need the INTERNAL balance 700107 Centerforce.

The external balance wont work for your application.

camarodave988

Thanks i didnt think so just trying to save a couple bucks. it was like $250 cheaper but guess im goin to be going the expensive way. And D*** that was fast. Im sure you will be getting some more questions from me since i havent even started yet

DVR408 88 iroc

i also have i question I changed my transmission out of my 1988 iroc 5.7 auto i put a TCI STreet fighter tranny in its also a 700r4 auto but it doesnt seem faster it seems slower..the only thing is it locks the tires right away and goes i was wondering if i did something wrong?

alloy

iTrader: (16)

This isn't really the place for an automatic trans question. This is for T56 six speed related questions and info. You should post your question in the main transmission/driveline forum.

Webmouth247

iTrader: (1)

hey alloy... i just want to say thanks for hooking up my tailhousing... what great and fast service you provide.

question for you... if i change my rear end ratio... do i have to change the gears in tailhousing again?

alloy

iTrader: (16)

Thanks for the compliment. I really appreciate your saying that.

Yes you will have to change at least one gear, maybe two. You have a 7 tooth drive gear. I don't remember what driven gear your combination took, but most of the time you can just change the driven gear and you should be good. Here is a link to Hanlon Motorsports page that has a speedometer calibration utility calculator on it. Type in your tire size and new rear ratio and it will tell you the best combination of gears to use.

http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/

You can get the driven gear from Pac Trans on ebay. They are about $10.

Unfortunately the drive gear isn't so cheap anymore. They were just discontinued by GM and the aftermarket supplier gets $36 for them. That's almost a $30 increase in price. So I've had to raise my price on the cable mod accordingly.

Webmouth247

iTrader: (1)

sounds like i done it just in time..

anyways, anothere question.. i know your 305 tpi but where you auto also? if you where auto.. did you get a new chip or did your car run ok without messing with it?

vbMike

iTrader: (2)

My car is a 350 TPI with auto. I swapped in the T56. It still ran fine without changing anything in the computer. I think the idle may have acted a bit strange so I did end up eventually changing a few setting in the chip just because I could. I don't remember it being a problem though. I'd say try it like it is and you can always go from there. I think the important part is to make sure the speedometer is hooked up because I believe the computer used the speed to control the idle.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

There is another option besides the cable-x box. I do a conversion that lets you run your standard speedometer cable. Much more reliable than an electronic box is. I've even done these for people that have the cable x box and didn't like how it worked. Cost is the same as the cable x box. Pm me if you want more info. And check me out here on the boards, I've done this for a number of people on here and have a pretty good reputation I think.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

I had a T5, so no changes were necessary in my chip thankfully. So unfortunately I have no experience with changing the program in an auto chip. You might think about downloading a bin from a stick car and burning a new chip.


I did my cable conversion for him and he will have the speedo hooked up. And yes the computer definitely uses the vehicle speed to control the engine. I broke my speedometer cable once years ago and it was a very miserable drive home without it. Died at every light and tried to die every time I pushed the clutch in.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I've driven the following manual transmission equipped vehicles:

T5 in my 1986 Mustang
T56 in my 2002 Firehawk
T56 in my 2005 GTO
Manual transmission in V6 2008 Chevy Silverado
T5 in my 1992 Formula Firebird

My experience with the T5 is identical to yours. My experience with the Firehawk was solid, though I prefer the gear ratios and feel of the clutch in the GTO to that of the Firehawk.

AnotherfastIROC

I found an alternate solution for those of us doing the T-56 swap but are re-using the factory pedals from their 3rd gen.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ic-clutch.html

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

awesome mod does she drive ?

AnotherfastIROC

She runs great! My clutch is a little toasted, but it is used so I accept it. I have to honestly say the mod works perfectly, makes the whole car alot more fun to drive and give plenty of engagement period. The other plus is if you like the engagement lower simply find a larger slave cylinder (although i doubt one exists) if you want it higher find a smaller unit. Overall the transmission is silky smooth, shifts effortlessly, the clutch despite being pretty worn engages well and the gear ratios are very tight so the motor never drops out of power range.

My next big swap over is Carb to EFI. I want to do a Holley commander 950 w/TBI swap. I am planning to use the wideband O2 and Knock sensor. I have used this system before and it is a nice piece to work with. Plus I can recycle the wiring harness, Carb, and ECM into my 305 Fiero build.

IROCU69

iTrader: (1)

Alright that was a lot of reading started with the first post too. So I want to do the T56 swap into my car, but I'm curious what I'm going to need. I read through this entire thing and I think I have a pretty good handle on it but I'm left with a few questions. Hopefully since a lot of work has been done on this since I started building my car someone probably has run across this and I just didn't find it in my searches...

I'm running a full 97 T/A interior in my 85 Camaro. This includes a rewired 97 T/A gauge cluster. I currently have no ECM in my car to speak of and I want the speedo in the cluster to work properly. So question #1 can I use the existing VSS in the T56 to run the gauge or do I need an ECM as well?

Question #2 I have a 1969 350 that I'm running. Can I still use the Centerforce or RAM flywheel that people are talking about?

Question #3 Again since I have a 69 block will I have any issues with the starter mounting?

As for the list of parts is there anything here that I'm missin below? Most of this I pulled from post #16. Thanks a lot for any info in advance.

Complete T56 trans with bell housing (95-98 Camaro/TA)

4th gen pedal assembly

Hurst shifter

Crossmember conversion

Torque arm (planning to reuse orignal 3rd Gen)

Hydraulics - $122
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results...umber=12559912

Harness (ebay) - $27
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

Shifter **** (hurst 1632006) - $15.69
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

Clutch disk (McLeod, Byunspeed w/ shipping) $172.89
http://www.byunspeed.com/product_inf...ducts_id=12415

Clutch PP, pilot bushing, alighment tool (LT4, Drualast, Autozone) - $176.39
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/cat...dName=Duralast

Clutch PP bolts (Ace hardware, 2" long, 3/8", 16 threads per inch, grade 8) - 6 @ $.69 = $4.14

Starter (LT1 Jegs mini) - $139
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/10001/10002/-1

Flywheel (Centerforce 700107/RAM 2555) - $258

Flywheel bolts (APR, summit) - $11.95
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-200-2802/

online170

First off im assuming youre doing an LT1 T56 swap. If not, all this goes out the door.

Not sure about the ECM thing. I imagine you can wire the speedo up to the dash cluster and have it work. The ECM is more for the reverse lockout, and the skipshift stuff.

You will need the LT1 starter, the reason is, part of it needs to fit inside the T56 bell, and the regular 1969 starter is just too big.

1969 Block = 2pc rear main seal. You will either need the conversion flywheel (Centerforce 700107 or RAM 2555).

If youre buying a pressure plate and clutch new, buy the GM LT4 plate, and the best McLeod clutch disc for the LT1 T56.

When i did my swap, i bought the T56, it came with the shifter, the trans, and the bellhousing. I bought a used LT1 clutch/PP, pedals, and pigtailed wire ends. I ordered new GM hydraulics, and the Spohn X-member w/ DS loop. If i had to do it again, i would order the SKULTE 3" dual exhaust version. The ground clearance on the spohn has room for imporvement. Oh and ofcourse the flywheel, speedo signal converter, plus misc bolts and hardware.

Its an easy swap, once you have the parts together.

IROCU69

iTrader: (1)

Would I really need the speedo signal converter? As I think I'd be good to go since I'm running a 97 T/A gauge cluster.

IROCU69

iTrader: (1)

Also just to add to this thread...

There is another flywheel option that can be found at a lower price then the Centerforce and RAM flywheels. Fidanza also makes a conversion aluminum flywheel that weighs in at 13.5lbs. Only reason why I bothered to check is because I run an Fidanza flywheel on my SVT Contour as well.

Fidanza p/n 198661

mwfrels

FYI Andris Skulte closed shop sometime late summer of last year. The LT header clearanced x-members he made were out of stock about the same time. One less supplier for our swap parts...

IROCU69

iTrader: (1)

Bummer...

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

Although it is a good investment, the LT1 starter isn't needed. I cheaped out and went with a starter for a T5, it fits fine and turns the 350 over good enough in all situations.

mwfrels

I swapped an LT1 starter on to my 1st gen 350 six years ago. There are two good justifications for it. First one being that it is significantly smaller and lighter than the OEM one that came on my car making it much easier to handle and get in and out around exhaust. Second being as that it is a high speed gear reduction drive instead of direct drive it's power requirements to turn over the motor are less. When you live in a HOT climate area of the world like I do heat soak during summer months is no longer a problem.

online170

NO I DONT THINK SO.... However dont take my word for it. My reasoning is the ECM only controls the skip shift, reverse lockout and that sorta stuff. LT1 gauge for LT1 spoeedo signal, should work fine.... But how do you have your speedo working with an earlier model trans now?? The signal pulses are different for different eras.

I wouldnt recommend the lighter one if you do street driving. If you have one already and dont mind it, then go for it.

Bummer x2....

Iceman_69

I need some help. i have read through this thread and I still have some questions. i have a 1985 Z28 that had a t5 in it. I running it with a 383 stroker with a 1 piece rear main seal. so i believe my flywheel is ok.I have manual already, so i dont all the pedals and electronics associated with an auto. I recently purchased a t56 out of a 1996 firebird. My question is what do i need as far as electronics for the tranny. What do i need for the reverse lock out? is there any mechanical fix for this? I do not have an ecm. I am also wondering about the spedometer. Im having a hard time finding parts. I read that skulte went out of business so I wonder about bracing? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Mason

alloy

iTrader: (16)

For the reverse lockout a lot of people just wire it to the brake lights. I didn't want to do that so I cut the lockout spring a little at a time so it was manageable without wiring anything up to it.

For the speedometer you have two options. First is the cable-x converter. Some people like this, most seem don't. The second option is converting the tail housing to run the stock speedometer cable. This s a mod that I do for people on here. PM me for details.

Spohn offers cross members for this swap. He is a sponsor on this site. I can't help you with your flywheel, I have a one piece rear main so the LT1 flywheel bolted on for me with no problems.

SomeGuy25thZ

I have Spohns T-56 swap cross member. It is a nice piece BUT causes a world of problems if you are having custom headers/exhaust installed. It is right in the way of long tube collectors. I had to cut down the fins from each leg of the cross member and still have not figured out how to brace it some more... might leave it for a while and pray nothing happens or will try to beef it up somehow.

If i did it again spending the same amount, maybe a little more, can net you a custom fabbed crossmember similar to the one by skulte. search for a photo of it and use that as a guide to building one.

online170

You cant use the T5 flywheel. The "spacing" and clutch are different. Notice the thickness of the T5 bell compared to the T56 bell, they are not the same.

You need to purchase a 1993-1997 LT1 F body flywheel. It will bolt right up to your 1pc rear main.

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

I think I understand the question, will a LT1 flywheel work with a stroker 1piece rear main crank? I was recently wondering the same thing. There are stroker kits that have the 1peice rear main, but they are available as External Balance and Internal Balance. Which one is needed in this case? The stock motors are internal balance, but they have the weight on the flywheel. Is the 383 internal balance meant to be run weightless?

alloy

iTrader: (16)

sorry..bad post

shocker89bird

Sorry been out of the loop afew years with my car sitting, who still even sells new t-56's that will fit out cars?

online170

Im pretty sure you can still order a replacement through GM dealership. Since tremec is still around, and alot of the newer cars still use the same basic transmission. Thats just OEM though.

Theres a few companies that sell new "aftermarket" units. Keisler is the only one im sure of thats still in business.

Beyond that, theres many companies that sell "new" refurbished units. These transmissions are becoming more and more common.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

I have an odd question do they make 5, 6, 7, or 8 speed automatic transmission or our cars ?

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

TCI (Ithink) sells a six speed auto that is based off of the 4l80e tranny. I'm sure it would be a tight fit in the tunnel though.

L695speed

Hey folks,

I've been toying with the idea of swapping for a T56 because I'm in short restomodding the 84 TA. I'm likely going to do some brake, suspension, and obviously driveline mods lil by lil til I get it done.

I'm starting with the chassis first, but my problem is, if I want to use a T56 backing a built 350+ horse carbed 350, I wouldn't want to spend the money to use parts that will come out if I am going to use the T5 til I can get the T56. Ideally I'd get all the parts and the T56 and put it all together. But since I might need this car driving (its in pieces in my Mom's garage) before long, I might run the T5 so I can drive the car for now. This may have already been answered, I've read this thread god knows how many times and if its been answered its all scattered or theres varying opinions.

What T56 swap parts can I use that will either retain the third gen pedals and hydraulics, so I can run the T5 yet still swap in the T56 without changing too much?
I know it can be done as various people have retained the third gen pedals, etc. I'm in the process of dismantling the car and am going to get new brakeline, rotors, springs, rear suspension, and master cylinder etc. But if I can use for example a third gen MC, and slave with a T56 clutch then that would be good to know so I'm not ordering more parts further down the line.

My ideal result is to have a car that looks factory bone stock, including rims, but when you run and drive it you know something is different.

From what I've gathered you need to have:

T56 (DUH)
flywheel, clutch, can use a 700R driveshaft (might be cheaper to get one than to mod either my driveshaft or tailshaft), X member, speedo cable conversion, LT1 mini starter (wiring problems?), and a lil creativity. And I read the link that was posted leading to the cavalier master cylinder or slave trick to retain the third gen pedals and not mod the clutch rod. Sounds like its a good idea, with seemly good results.

My car is originally an L69 T5 car.

Did I miss anything?

TIA

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

The stock T5 driveshaft and starter will work fine, if you do want the LT1 starter, it hooks up just like the stock unit.

Just use all your T5 hydraulics for now. When you switch to T56 later, decide what you want to run then. IMHO, it is easier to use the T56 pedals because it is a better design that is easier to properly setup in a 3rd gen.

L695speed

Ok, I just was wondering what I could do now as part of the prep for the T56 swap and yet still use the T5 so I can drive the car til I get the 6 speed. Obviously the LT1 mini starter is doable. Is there anything else I can do? I have the car totally apart now which is why I'm asking.

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

I think you will just end up creating more work for yourself in the long run. It's not much trouble to swap hydraulics and/or pedals later on when you do the swap.

L695speed

Ok, well like I said I might end up doing the swap sooner rather than later. But I would like to know if my list is roughly accurate as far as gathering parts and etc for the swap.

cuisinartvette

Alloy shoot me a pm...I have a 67 Abody with the mech speedo. Cost effective way to hook it up to my T56 short of a 300 box or tailshaft housing?



Havent read the whole thread but you CANNOT use hardware store bolts on that T56 PP. They will bolt in but its not safe. ANyone that tells you a standard SBC PP bolt will work, slap them.





The PN is GM 10079898 which is discontinued. McCleod is having their own made just gotta be patient. They are torque to yield which though debatable are a throw away item. Can you reuse them, maybe if they arent stretched. Would I , no. Dont skimp on this type of stuff it could cost you a leg or worse. Dont be a cheapass

McCleod also makes a scattershield 8760-00 $450 at summit dont know if this will fit earlier Fbodys, made for 93-97 but food for thought

Youll like the conversion it is a great trans, worlds stronger than the T5