KED85

I have the idiot light dash still in my car.
Now will be installed the Gauge package pictured below.
Those two plugs in the picture are from a guage packaged car.
In end, I duplicate that gauge plug dash wiring in my current idiot light dash wiring harness plugs, connect to the gauge dash, turn on car, gauges work?
No other wires to bring from engine bay to the plugs to make a gauge work?
I do know that I should have the corresponding engine sensor (oil/water-gauge, not light) on engine.
THANKS!

Apeiron

You should be able to just change the senders and plug the new instrument panel in without changing the wiring at all.

Petes 84Z28

He *should* be able to just plug it in, although there were wiring changes at some point between 82 and 86 when the electric speedo was introduced. I don't know the exact year or reasoning behind it, but as long as the wiring colors match between his existing dash and the supplied connectors, there will be no problem.

TomP

Actually (uh oh), Karl, is that a yellow VSS buffer in the bag, too? If so, does it also have the VSS itself, for the trans tailshaft?

In '85 and '86 Firebirds, the speedometer was mechanical. The trans had a speedo gear in it, which spun a cable, which spun the speedo. On the back of the speedo was a yellow box, this was actually the VSS -and- VSS buffer combined into one. The mechanical speedo actually spun the VSS directly.

In '86 Firebirds (not sure about other years, but I have an '86 full gauge panel in my basement), the speedo was full electric. An actual Vehicle Speed Sensor was located in the trans tailshaft. This was wired to a yellow VSS buffer box that was bolted next to the ECM. As you sat in the passenger seat, the VSS was bolted about an inch to the left of the ECM.

So this might pose a problem... hopefully the tranny's VSS is also in that bag, but you can get one from a junkyard. Remember when you pop the VSS out of the trans, all the fluid in the tailshaft will also pour out. Guess how I know! Yep, I had wiggled under the junkyard car- it was dropped on a bunch of tires, so I could just barely fit. I pulled the VSS out- when it popped free, I cheered- and then the trans started dumping out fluid. I had to wiggle like hell to get out from under there! I found an old bag in the j/y that I shoved into the hole to stop it from leaking.

I also cut the VSS sensor harness up by the back of the engine. This allowed me to crawl back under the car, and pull the VSS connector out from the back of the engine- so it gave me 4 feet of wire, as opposed to if I snipped the VSS connector off from under the car.

KED85

The Gauge set up supplied is from a 1985 Firebird!
I have mechanical speedo.
You should see how perfect is the plastic lense, like brand new!
I BELIEVE THE TACH WIRE IS THE ONE I need watch out for.
Like swap it from a "current non-usage" spot to the "correct spot".
Again, duplicate the wire set up I have of the wire plug blocks, is what I "believe to be correct solution".
I'm not going in there as I am giving this task to another. No time for myself for this mission.
The bag ya see has the brand new speedo cable housing with new inner cable to stablize the speedo needle for TC Lock up. That's being installed, too.

KED85

Those are TWO plugs not a Yellow VSS part.
I have that yellow box on back of this speedo gauge package & also on my current idiot light dash.
Nothing by the computer, ECM.

TOM YOU WENT THRU ALL THAT TYPING FOR A SALES RECEIPT IN THE PLASTIC BAG! HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Wasn't placed there to fool ya.

TomP

Haha, oh fer cryin' out loud! I thought that VSS buffer was a little on the large side!!

Cool, I guess '86 was different than '85, that's great! It'll make your swap easier!

Hey does that new speedo cable housing & the inner speedo cable itself have GM part numbers on 'em? See if you can find out what grease the guy's going to use on the inner cable for me! My speedo's jerky; gotta lube the cable one of these years. Lubed it on the ex's father's Camaro, but he gave me a tube of "Speedo Cable Lube", and I never thought to write down the manufacturer/part number of it.

KED85

This new cable is already to install as is.
I was supposed to use
WHITE GREASE on a speedo cable,
not axle grease.
I used axle grease on the cable and it worked, but it breaks down in high heat and it becomes jumpy from 0-40MPH.
Part of my tranny problem is the NOT steady speedo needle and the corresponding TC lock up feature.
Sorry Tom didn't mean to goof ya up!

Klortho

My speedo in my '86 is mechanical, not electric.

KED85

I'll be uploading pics later on to show all what needs be done to convert the idiot light dash of a 1985 FIREBIRD to a gauge package from same year/V6 Firebird.
It's involoved and yes I must create wires from the dash-guage wire blocks to engine bay.
White tach wire is just "one of those wires". I am missing to make my guage package dash operational

KED85

Loose wire plug block is from a Gauge Package wire harness
My in car harness is the "other plug"
Notice the white wire, that is tach signal feed.
White plug block goes on bottom & you'll see others.

KED85

Pic of same white block plug but other row of wires

KED85

Now pic of the top BLACK wire harness plug block.
Same story, the loose one is for the guage package dash.

KED85

Last pic of the wire block plugs.
Again another row of wires, same BLACK plug
What does anyone suggest I do to make this gauge package work?
I think I can move the in car plug wires to "match" the guage plug wires, then add as needed. Especially the white wire for tach.
Luckily I have an auto so no need for stick upshift light to deal with !!!
ANY other suggestions?
I see a tech thread coming outta this topic

Petes 84Z28

It's not too difficult to swap the wires around. All you need is a tiny, stiff piece of wire to remove the wires from the plug. A very small Allen key will work; a coat hanger is too large. Myself, I use a piece of 18-gauge solid copper wire - it works for me.
Push the wire into the small slot next to the flat part of the wire connector (best I can describe it) to dis-engage the tang that holds the wire into the connector. There may also be 'flaps' on the plastic part of the connector that help retain the wires as well - just pry it out for now, and replace it when done. Once you get the first one out, you'll see what I mean. Relocate one at a time, and you shouldn't have any problems.
I enlarged a section of one of your pictures to show where to insert the wire.

EDIT: Enlarged pic

TechSmurf

Interesting.. my idiot -> gauge cluster swap required absolutely no wiring changes.

KED85

In my 1985 Firebird instance, this is what is required, GM Wiring Brain Surgery.
THANKS!

TomP

Sorry, I mis-spoke in my second paragraph; but I did cover tha tin the first paragraph!

In the second paragraph, I should've said:

Sorry 'bout the confusion!

KED85

I have figured out the surgical procedure for this operation.
Ain't no swap & replug in!
I must convert the current factory harness to the guage package harness.
ALOT OF WIRE SWAPPING LOCATIONS
IN END, I do add the LONE WHITE WIRE FROM COIL TO TACH feed to the plugs, then replug blocks back in.
My only concern with the diagrams I'm using supplied by Dr. Helms is for the voltage guage. The "wire swap" is not too clear on that detail. YET when it comes down to "that's the last wire..." I'll be sure, then.
I was most fortunate to have taken the gauge package harness plugs from that wrecked Firebird.

Putting out a call for anyone with idiot light Firebird Wire Plug blocks. It'll save me a trip to wrecking yard for the search! Id like to experiment before I totally screw up a proper operational harness.
Thanks for tips, tho!
PS no ya can't do this operation without the answers from a wiring diagram for your year and make of car! You'd be guessing alot and end up with lots of blown fuses, too. As I have in past.

Projek: 85 3800

It's about time you used that gauge pod. I'm pretty sure I have schematics posted here somewhere from when I was rewiring my dash.

85f-bird

hey ked, i know that it's not necessarily idiotlight/full guage related, but on the interior board there's a sticky at the top from tpiroc about a 4th gen dash swap. Inside are coresponding colors for the 3rd gen connectors (on a full dash setup) i used the same schematic for my dash swap, although i did find some small inconstancies, however, i can't find my 4th gen haynes manual now, and inside that manual are 3 pages of notes on the swap and the more specifically the wiring....i'm gonna keep looking for it, and if i'm lucky enough to find it, then i'll be posting it on the pages.

KED85

I'm hoping I get package in, in about 2 weeks or so.
So many things, so little time for some projects.
Before I get a tranny installed, in goes this package.
My Helms book gives me the real skinny on what to do. That is the schematic I'm using for swap guide.

It's the voltage gauge set up that has me confused, but again, it'll be the last wire to install.

GM does do a decent job on it's wiring set up.

KED85

Hey Anyone
Where does GM attach this "White Tach Feed Wire"?
I know the signal is picked up from coil.
Is white tach feed wire connected somewhere on fuse panel? OR I go straight from dash to coil to get signal?

85f-bird

IIRC the tach wire goes direct from the coil to the guage, with no stops in between.....it's most liekly fused through the guages fuse, infact, i know it is, as when mine blew, i lost the tach, amongst everything else.

KED85

THANK YOU!

Projek: 85 3800

ANy update?

also, found THIS maybe a little late, but good info

KED85

HI All
I've been super busy finishing rebuilding a house.
Almost thru this weekend. What's left is tile cutting, sand paint on bathroom, install counter top, cut hole in top, install sink & the installation of plumbing, including build a shower (kit, 4 walls big deal)
Other dance I now must do is
Ready....
Make my cars "move" in my driveway or else I be fined because a neighbor complained I am "storing cars" which is BS harassment but
I got my Blazer to start & it moves (I miss my Blazer for this hosue rebuild I'm doing!!)
Only now getting the Corvette battery to charge enough to start (& drive the damn thing cause I miss it!) & also same story with Wife's 68 Camaro.
The "stored" Porsche is gone by Sunday.
Dash has taken a back seat along with the mucho necessario tranny swap until end of next week. Or so.
Hell, after the tranny took a dump in the heat & abuse I do to the Firebird, damn glad I still have made/kept it mobile.
AND how was your week!
I'll check out your link shortly
THANKS!!!! ALL TOO MUCH!

oldschool

I've been following with interest the gauge cluster swap for the 85' Firebird. The white tach wire seems to be causing the most confusion in installing the stock gauge cluster. It is indeed missing on the standard cluster (warning light) cars. According to the 1985 Firebird GM shop manual, the white tach wire runs from position D6 on connector 100 (the under dash bulkhead connector) to position 14 on connector C1 (the clear connector on the gauge cluster. Section 8A page 202 of the GM manual shows a picture of the connector face for C 100. This connector is under the left hush panel, mounted on the inside firewall, right beside the left kick panel. It has a snap on plastic cover. The other half of it is on the firewall under the hood , and it connects to the engine harness. Do it the easy way, run the white tach wire from position D6 on connector 100, to position 14 on IP connector C1, and it will save you having to drill the firewall, and splice into the black and white wire that runs to the coil. May as well run the old school factory gauge cluster the way the factory intended.

KED85

Your response is most helpful, Thank you!
I agree with your suggestion of wiring, too.
I made my cars dance in my driveway for LA City representative. He also agreed it was a total harassment situation and any other complaints against my driveway will be looked upon most suspiciously.
By next weeekend, I may get a chance to install the gauge dash, along with my electric driver seat track & new driver seat.

oldschool

Yeah, I've been there with the neighbors ragging on you to the authorities for having too many cars on the driveway. What a pain!

One other thing to note with the V6 gauge swap is that GM has discontinued the 80 PSI oil pressure sender unit that you need. Use a Standard PS155 available from NAPA, Auto Zone, Pep Boys, JK, etc, for about $20.00. The temperature sender is still available from GM, part number 20536649, and about $35.00 plus shipping from gmpartsdirect.com. Aftermarket temperature sender units are available too, just make sure you get the right one for the V6.

Keep us posted on your progress.

oldschool

Any update on the gauge swap?

KED85

Not yet,
The dash has taken back seat to a very BIG priority in the F Bird!
FINDING THE DAMN REAR HATCH LEAK!
Just rained in SoCal and I ended up with about 1 1/2" of water in the "trunk".
That trunk repair must come first.
Know how much a wet car interior stinks?
Yeah I am getting real close.
I just finished (with help from Dale) the installation of the electric fuel pump wiring set up in my 85 Blazer with 3.4 mill under the hood. Hooked in a relay switch set up for the Carter electric fuel pump "ignition keyed on & off" function. The electric pump set up now works 90% safely (I must next install the oil pressure cut off switch-minor).
The Firebird dash ain't too far behind now......damn hatchback leak.....really thought it was solved...
PS RainX on windshield works very well, too!

Project: 85 2.8 bird

I remember reading WAYYY back about the seal that goes to fromteh hatch window the the metal deck where the wing (if you had one) goes. Check there for the weak link

KED85

ACTUALLY...
I'm gonna use another method.
I'm gonna tape newspaper on inside SIDES of back area (when a known rain storm approaches) to see the water trail then, attack there.
I already know I need a new seal.
I've also beat upon on back hatch rear deck area, loading the Firebird with stuff
Here's an example
I can't wait to get my Blazer done for road usage again!

Project: 85 2.8 bird

that pic is so ghetto, it reminds me of the overloaded car from hme depot/lowes.

KED85

YEAH WELL...........
I gotta say this Firebird sure does earn its keep!

I just played with the Blazer.
Damn thing starts up so well/easily now with the relay & Electric fuel pump set up.
NOW I gotta a short in the Blazer guages in that I hit brakes, gauges work (but the fuse is not in place!). I install a fuse (while engine running) & it instantly blows out! The gauges are in the "shorted" position, until I hit the brakes.
Oh well.
As soon as I install the new heater core for the Blazer, it's going to a shop for the final adjustments for a smog check & then back on road. No more big loads into the Firebird like that pic.

Think that's bad, ya shoulda seen the TWO trunks I brought back on the 1974 Corvette luggage rack! One trunk per load.
I really love these F Body hatchbacks! Ya shoulda see the four by eights I've stuck in the Firebird, too! Fits right in, no problem, a little overhang

oldschool

I had a huge leak like that in my Firebird when I first bought it. Raise your hatch, pull your hatch weatherstip off and check the condition of the flange that the weatherstrip fits on. Mine had a crack/tear in the flange, probably from the previous owner either slamming the hatch, or closing it on something. If you find this, straighten the tear in the metal and seal with a healthy annount of 3-M weatherstrip adhesive, or windshield caulk. Fixed mine in 1989, and bone dry since. Also consider changing your hatch weatherstrip. The factory part number is 10212939. The factory hatch weatherstrip is no longer available from GM, but it is available from f body motorsports for about 50 bucks. They seem to have obtained all the remaining stock of this part. As with all the weatherstrips, use the factory stuff whenever possible.

Keep us posted on the leak repair and gauge swap!

KED85

I hear ya a million on a seam crack.
I firmly believe that's what has gotten to be my situation.
I've already sealed any other water inlets I could find with plumbers putty. Back of taillights, side markers, rear bumper cover, all those places.
I'm hoping to find a decent gasket in the local yards, tho.
That is IF they left a key for the back hatch in the car HAHA

As one suggested, a leak that much, gotta be able to find it easily!
My Blazer guage problem, a buddy fell on floor laughing too much.
AHH Tomorrow........

89V6FBIRD

I second the glass/decklid seal. Karl, since you don't really CARE about the looks of your car, just get some black window/bathtub caulking and lay it over where the glass & the decklid meet. I did that, it doesn't look horrible, but I wish I did it the right way.

Oh saw you the other day, last Saturday morning on Rinaldi @ Balboa!

KED85

You saw me in the Corvette, correct?
I had that area resealed when I had my new used windshield installed. I feel the window seal is fine.
I believe it's the rubber seal (I know I have destoyed it!) & an area I dented when I had been hauling stuff in the back. The newspaper taped to sides & water running down rain drain channel of back hatch will tell story of where is leak.

Back to Martinsville Racing

OH YES I DO CARE ABOUT THE LOOKS OF MY RIDE
But my foundation must be reinforced shortly (leaks, guages, tranny swap) before I do anything with looks of car.
Hell I await sale of a big ticket item of mine to just spend the few bucks to get headliner material on other headliner backing I have & into Firebird. Then full on interior swap.
DAMN LEAK!!!!

89V6FBIRD

No I saw the 'Bird, thats a good thing you had that resealed. You should be able to hit pick a part for the weatherstrip, I really don't see bad ones there.

KED85

I'll BET ya saw my Wife as we "pass" by your "local" due to schooling for my 4 year old lad, is right by there!
Yeah I agree with the P.Y.P. & seals. I feel I should find one, too.
BEST THING IS
It's supposed to rain next day or two so atleast with my newspaper trick to show trail of water, I should know where to pound metal lip to bring seal back to proper level.
I also cracked my tail lights on top and I'll put duct tape over those holes & see if that helps, too.
AND I'm getting closer to solving the guage problem in my Blazer so I can get that to one for smogging & that Blazer back on road.
OH FOR THE GOOD ECONOMIC NEWS (I hope) IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS!!!!

skullmaster427s

what's up guys i got a 87 ta for parts and i wanted to put the electronic 145 mph cluster in my el camino ... i will be using only the rpm and electronic 145 mph cluster (i know rpm is very easy to wire it how about the speedo ? can i wire it avoinding all the original car harness?...how about wires does anyone knows how to wire it? i will be using a t5 that came from a 84 camaro ... any suggestion guys?

thanx
Carlos

KED85

HI Carlos
I'd start a fresh topic for yourself to get BEST response to your crys for help!
PS DON'T DOUBT IT CAN BE DONE
I mean HEY BOSTON RED SOXS IN WORLD SERIES & THEY NOW 3-0
ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN
Good luck!