xsupermann69x

will the 2.8 pacesetter headers work on my 3.1L RS.

is there any modification that i have to do?

nope

yes and yes

xsupermann69x

what modifications have to be done?

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Search. It's in there. Everywhere.

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

I know that these repetitive questions get a little old......but reply's like this is why there are so many unhelpful threads when you search.

Of the top of my head....The 3.1 AIR system does not hook up 2.8 headers. So if you have emission testing in your area, your car might not pass. You could probably pass the sniffer test but not the visual.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

You would rather us give the information every single time and end up answering the same question every other thread? Seems like a waste of time to me. Why write a book about bicycles when the information you would put in is already in at least two other books, in the exact same manner, all of which are readily available?

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

Because by the time you find what you are looking for you are on page 3 of the search results. I know that it gets repetitive and annoying, but if the same questions keep getting asked and no one feels the need to look at the stickies...why keep putting useless threads into the forum?

These will come up in a search...and wont help anyone. <---Thats all I'm saying.

nope

but you've gotta admit, the pacesetter headers question gets asked about once a week lmao

GTA50

forkvoid is right that the information is on the site, however Grimmcs is also correct that you have to do a lot of searching to find the info.

In answer to the original question, I just finished installing my Pacesetter headers on my 1989 Firebird. I stroked the 2.8L so now have a 3.1 - so yes, the headers do install. Regarding any mods, no I didn't have to do any. The instructions from Pacesetter suck. Here is how I did it (by myself!! and it took about 45 min.). I should also mention that my car has the WC 5-speed tranny and AIR system.

1. Bolt on both headers,
2. Connect the y-pipe on the drivers side (support the free end with a floor
jack or hydraulic jack) and tighten!
3. Now, slip on a muffler clamp and then the passenger side of the y-pipe
(and gasket). In my case, two of the bolt holes were off by 1/2"
approximately. Apply a little pressure with a small pry bar (not a lot
required - so be careful, especially if you went with the ceramic headers
like I did).
4. The holes will line up so you can get the bolts in (drop down from the top
of course) and put on the nuts. Release the pressure from the pry bar
and tighten the bolts. The flanges will slowly begin to line up.
5. Have a beverage, slap yourself on the back and enjoy!!

The air system must be removed as in my case there is no clearance from the back end of the AIR pump to get under the headers. Also the piping from the pump to the catalytic converter is right up against the headers.

Hope this helps.

Gary.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Great info, I had noy been able to find this either. Just alot a threads that said seach for it... This gets asked so much I almost think it'd be worth it to sticky it, but thats not my place.

Now if I could just find a place to buy these headers I'd be in business..

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

It would only work if most new people would read the stickies.

You can get them at summitracing.com

GTA50

Just a couple of other thoughts come to mind regarding the header install.

I should have mentioned that if you are deleting the air pump, and obviously the pulley from the system, you can either go with the AIR pump delete pulley or you can change the serpentine belt. Use Dayco part number 5060825 belt (no AIR Pump, no A/C). The routing diagram can be found on the Dayco website:

http://www.mvreader.com/multiview/da...uto&category=2

You also may or may not need to extend the wire for the O2 sensor, depending on your harness.

yellowmaro

On my 1986 camaro w/2.8, when I installed the headers the car ran poorly until I installed a heated oxygen sensor. If you do a search you can find the details but the recommended one is for a 93 s-10 w/4.3.

Now, from what I understand, not everyone who installed headers has done this but it completely changed the car when I did it. Maybe it is ecm specific but I do not know which ecm I have.

Also, the car will run richer with headers.

GTA50

I thought about that.

I guess it depends on how far the O2 sensor is from the collector. In my case, the position on the stock Y-pipe was similar to the position on the Pacesetter Y-pipe.

So, for the time being, I'll stay with the stock O2 sensor and maybe down the road, try the heated one.

GTA50

One small mod to be done for those with a 5-speed. This is similar to those guys with V-8 5-speeds. The hydraulic hose between the clutch master and slave cylinders is very close to the headers (about 1/2 inch in my case) and the heat from the headers will eventually cause a leak. Ask me how I know . Anyway, from the threads on this site, you can swap in a T56 hydraulic assembly (I believe TPIS sells one for $165 that is pre-bled), or from the thread below, have a longer line fabricated and then increase the clearance from the headers.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...utch+hydraulic

This plus the above, should pretty much cover anything and everything about Pacesetter headers.

Gary.

rsrsrs

iTrader: (9)

I have these on my 2.8.

Do yourself a favor tho - BUY NEW HEADER GASKETS!! The ones given with these headers don't last that long.

GTA50

Good point rsrsrs.

I forgot when I did the build on the engine that I used Felpro gaskets for the headers. They fit great and are indeed light-years better than the folded "cardboard" that came with the headers.

Thepinkzepp

I have a set of these and I'm parting my car out and getting a gta so I don't think they will fit. I even bought the felpro gaskets, the ones it came with were, no joke a piece of weird cardboard while the felpros are almost made of metal. But if anyone would like the headers and gaskets let me know I paid 295$ and it's all still in the packaging make me an offer.

Thepinkzepp

I have a set of headers and good gaskets for sale check out my thread or message me

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Wish I had the $ for them, always wanted headers. It'll probably be late fall before I can resume work on the bird..

84olmpcboy

Dose anybody know if headers off of a 231 (3.8) Buick will fit the 2.8. I searched google and found nothing and I can get a set of headers for $15.

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

No.

janson33

how much more hp did u guys get from the pacesetter headers on ur 2.8's?

GTA50

Hello janson33:

Nice to have someone from my "neck-of-the-woods". For hp increase, I really can't say as I did a pretty radical build (bored/stroked, 260 grind cam, roller-tip rockers, port/polish, valve grind.........). But to open up the exhaust definitely helps, just don't forget about the breathing up front.

About sound, I regularly had guys come up and ask me if that was a big block under the hood! (I also had a Dynomax SuperTurbo muffler plus a cat-back).

Reni-Camaro

my pacesetter header & DynoMax Super turbo

http://vimeo.com/27830995

williemcfly

Ok I have a 92 RS camaro 3.1L v6 and I'm about to order the 2.8 pacesetter headers PN PSM-70-1206, magnaflow 2.25 inlet 2.5 outlet directfit cat PN MPE-93456, and 2.8 3.1 and 5.0 dynomax super turbo exhaust system PN WLK-17493 my question is Ive read that alot of guys has set the timing to 12* and are using a heated o2 from a 93 s/10 4.3. How many o2 sensors do I need for my system? What are some good header bolts for this application? And is it worth the extra cash to use summit band clamps instead of the supplied hardware that comes with the dynomax system? Any help is greatly appreciated I jus wanna do this system right the first time. Thanks

williemcfly

also i know i will have to get rid of the AIR pump and pully but i wanna keep my a/c for the time being so what belt should i get? thanks again

GTA50

You only need one O2 sensor as there is also only one bung for it. The heated O2 sensor will have three wires. If I remember correctly - oblviously connect the black one to the single wire from the original O2 sensor connecter. One white wire goes a power source that is only on when the ignition is on and the second white wire goes to ground.

As for the header bolts, the ones that came with the headers were fine (just remember to use an "anti-sieze" on the bolts before putting them in). Clamps for the Dynomax muffler were fine for me so I don't see the need for putting in the extra few dollars.

On the belt, Dayco used to give the part numbers on their website but that seems to have been discontinued. Two thoughts: 1) see if your local parts store has a belt that has an air-pump delete but with A/C or 2) do the string thing and run a string around the pulleys, tie it off at the correct length (i.e. tension) and see what can be matched up.

Hope that helps.

williemcfly

Thank you that deffinatlly will help for when I order the parts tomorrow. Your answer will help alot of ppl when they search for this information on these headers and exhaust system as a whole. I'm also pretty sure it only took GTA50 a few mins to type that up. Now when then next v6 guy searches it won't take long to find the answer. Again thanks for the help now I can get started on this project.

89blackbird89

So I've read on here that it is possible to use the stock y pipe with a bit of modification, I found a set of these headers at my local boneyard and want to know if it just doesn't line up by a couple inches or if I need to cut pipe ?

janson33

So I just installed these. Finally got them, after a year and a half of wanting them! so I followed GTA50's instructions. Generally, it went smoothly. But here were my problems. First, on the passenger side, there's that thing that bolts to the top, and it connects to the engine. I couldn't get the 2 bolts in there, so I only did one lol. But it doesn't leak and I used gasket sealant, so w e. second, it was the biggest pain in the F U C K I N G A S S to get the driver side header to fit in there. I didn't think I could do it, and I'm still kind of a beginner. But here's wut I had to remove to get it in there. All 3 spark plugs, those 2 sensors that connect near the oil filter, the oil filter itself ( thank god I was changing the oil anyways ) and I had to remove a bolt that hold down the 2 fuel lines. ( I put the header in from the top, NOT from underneath. After bolting it all up, it actually touches the oil filter, which is f u c k i n g bs, so wut I did to fix it was I tighten to top 3 bolts super tight, and tightened the 3 bottom ones and stopped just before it touched the filter. Also, in my case, I had to put the oil dipstick in between the header pipes (between the middle one and the one closed to the firewall ). Then, I actually bolted on y-pipe on the passenger side. U know that small pipe that goes from the driver side header to the y-pipe? It's EXACTLY the same size, and its a clamp on style, so how the f u c k does that make sense? I then went to crappy tire to get a 2.25 pipe to join em. And I also needed another clamp. Then, I found out that there wasn't enough space cuz the little pipe was up against the the bar that hold the engine ( cross member? ) lol so I had to cut 2 inches off each side of the pacesetter pipes. Then I finally bolted up the driver side, then put my new magnaflow cat on, and put the rest of my system on ( flowmaster 80 series muffler and 3.5 inch 45 degree slant cut tips by cherry bomb ) the headers make it a bit louder, and it definitely crackles more. I like dat lol. The idle also got a bit more rough. I haven't driven it yet, but I'm guessing its a bit faster, cuz the pedal was a bit more sensitive. I also have a k&n filter, not that it matters. But ya, that's my experience with the install. A few things. Get felpro gaskets. They're 8$ from summit. Second, these headers come with header bolts. I don't understand why it says on the sites that they don't. To make things easier for ppl, the header bolts are 3/8's, so be sure to have an imperial tool set. And the flange bolts are 9/16's. it sucks that the black paint burns off. If I knew, I would have likely gone with the ceramic ones, and saved a week more of money. Ah, w e. so far everything seems fine. Hope everyone else's birds are ready for summer

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I can't possibly imagine why installing the driver's side was so hard unless they changed up the flanges. I'm running 3100 heads and the driver's side was the easy one to put in, after I dropped the clutch slave out of position. Which, of course, I had to put header wrap around before putting back in (it's plastic ). FYI, if you end up getting bolt on subframe connectors, plan on modifying either the connectors or the crossover pipe (trust me, the pipe hits the bar).
At least now I know why the passenger's side is such a pain getting the hardware in place. Wrong hardware.

Cadaver_Puncher

Hey Mav...you live only six and a half hours away.lol wanna come do my headers when I get them? I also have a couple busted exhaust studs.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Modifying the headers is the easy part... Drilling out the broken bolts/studs... Not so much.

What I did was I pulled the head off and put the stock exhaust manifold back on. The manifold acted as a drill guide. Once the bolt/stud is drilled out, you will need to get a rethread kit (M8x1.25) and put an insert into each empty hole before putting in the replacement stud or reinstalling the head and using bolts.

Cadaver_Puncher

If I take the heads off... might as well have them shaved, ported and polished and 1.6 roller tip rockers put on. Lol maybe just source a pair of heads and have them done before I remove the old ones. It's my daily driver.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, unless you can either get your hands on a right-angle drill or a right-angle drill attachment, you'll notice there isn't any room for a drill in there.

Probably be better to get another pair of heads... The cast iron ones you might even find someone to PAY YOU to take them away.

Cadaver_Puncher

That would be nice. Get some from what engine though a 3400 or 3500? Or find aluminium 3.1 heads?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Late model (2000+) 3100 and 3400 heads are identical... 3500 heads will probably be too big (chambers) for your current engine due to the increased bore size.

Like I've said before, check around to your local shops that do engine replacements. You might get lucky like I did and get an entire top end setup for dirt cheap (I got mine from a 98 3100 for $50). Just make sure you get the brackets and what not as well, and all of the bolts (I got screwed big time in hardware).

:edit: And, as to a question asked above that never got answered...

No, do NOT attempt to use the factory crossover pipe. It will need so much modification for the headers that it's not worth keeping (different lengths at flanges, different flange on passenger's side, etc). And, what makes the matter worse is the fact that the factory pipe is actually like brake lines in that it's a pipe inside a pipe which would make welding difficult on a good day to a person who knows what they're doing.

Cadaver_Puncher

Would compression ratio be OK with stock bottom end though?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

If you want to play it safe, you will need 3100 pistons. I think the CR is around 9 or 9.5:1 for the factory setup...

Personally, I'm throwing caution to the wind, going all out and keeping the 3.1 bottom end for a roughly 11.4:1 compression ratio. Autotune with TunerStudio and MegaSquirt should help that... There aren't too many on here with a high-compression V6.

Cadaver_Puncher

I'm thinking I'd keep the stock bottom end. Need a kinda plug and play thing. Being this is my daily driver and only car the wife and I own.
So I get all the parts together then throw everything in at once. Most like switch to a heated o2 sensor too.