mtwlkn122

Ok guys ive looked at some old threads and new ones and noticed newer style 3.1l heads and other parts will help make some power out of our 3.1l motors. Well i just had a doh moment. I have a 96 buick skylark with the 3100 series motor sitting in my driveway with like 130,000 miles on it. Well the car was hit head on and then fixed her a lil and drove her till then i hit a deer doing 55ish(ok 78)...and now the car is just so messed up its bad/impossible to drive. My question is can i use parts from the 3100 motor on my 3.1l motor to make some more power. Like are the heads comapatible with my motor. I know they are aluminum heads for a fact. What would i do for exhaust? Im very interested in getting some more power out of my lil sixer without having to drop an eight in(just yet). I want to experiment with how much i can make out of my six. I know you can go turbo and all that. Im looking for just bolt on or basic mods. I have a person who is older in age but used to build drag motors and is very good at porting and polishing anything. Well put simple hes and old school motor builder and knows alot of old tricks and builds some CRAZY motors. Back to topic. I know someone out there has done this or is doing this. Any info would help.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Here's the best article I know of:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...-1-3100-a.html
Good info but far beyond my skill level.

Plus there's this with lots a links:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...eads-info.html
It was hidden in the stickys

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Take a look at 60degreev6.com as well, there's alot of good info there too. Basically the only thing restricting this from being a bolt-on swap is the distributor. You either have to use a rwd 3.4 block with crank sensor provisions from the factory or cobble together your own crank sensor (firstfirebird is also working on a kit).

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I really wish I could have more time to work on the DIS triggers

I bought a TCE trigger setup for the 3500 swaps, and am going to see if maybe we can get something a little faster using an already proven design...

http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/externa...2.html?ccUser=



They are $155, but I might be able to get that price down with quantity to allow some room for machining costs to make said modifications.

chevyracingrox

don't you have to retune the ecm with that big of a change? I mean, your changing entire top end, it's going to run differently.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Yes. Can't do a whole lot with the stock ecm either so you'll probably want to swap to a '165 or '730.

mtwlkn122

hmmm im just so tempted to try this but seeing how the firebird is now my only car thats not an option...im trying to sell anything not needed....money is tough these days

mtwlkn122

ok i know this was an old thread but it was well MY thread....well recently the lil old 3.1l hasnt been making me happy...its just not fast enough...so now if money prevails i will be jumping over the fence to the side of the "boost gods"...im going to become apart of the darkside. Im looking to build a 3.1l v6 that will run high 12's low 13's....that is my top GOAL...for now seeing as ive NEVER done a turbo set up or actually even drove or been in a turbo car i will start slow...id first like to get into the low 15's or high 14's. As right now im running 17's on the stock motor is just not right. I myself am a torque guy. I like the feeling of being pinned to the seat while you rocket off into the distance. THAT IS ME!...heres my delema...first off i know computers but have never messed with car computers, id say moslty cause ive been misinformed or scared away from them (grandfather used to build drag cars when he was alive, father owned alot of nice cars)...besides not knowing computers that well i also would like to know an honest oppinion from some ppl who have turboed before...can i really make respectable hp and torque out of my 3.1l motor....i mean im planning on pulling the motor and going through everything to make sure nothing is bad first...then new gaskets blah blah...prolly do forged pistons if i can find some, headers(havent figured out how to figure that into the turbo yet) melling mtc-5 cam, port match, #24 injectors, t3/t4 turbo, some sort of computer tune(maybe use the syclone tune on my ecm? idk yet)...and so on...i mean ive read alot into this and know what is recomended to do to get some power i just have a few small confusions and scares of actually doing this...i dont want to break my baby........back to the power thing tho. Id like to get into the 300 horse range. If i could just touch 300 hp and decent torque number that would be GREAT. Is this possible with what im looking at doing on the 3.1l motor...This is also my DD in the summer at least for now. I mean i have no problem running a lower tune and lower boost just so its good for a DD but then running another tune and higher boost for the letting the fun times roll...that doesnt bother me...i just need some more reassurance on this

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Well it'll never really be a torq monster that pins you to the seat off the line because you'll either need alot of boost which takes a big turbo and time to build up some steam or alot of rpm which needs to wind up to make power, but you could hit 300hp & 300ft/lbs na with 3400 heads and the right cam/manifold to get it breathing right. If you just want to boost the motor as-is make sure it's clean and tight and go for it. Start out small like 6lbs and a smallish turbo for good response. You don't need forged pistons immediately and probably won't want to shill out the cash for them. You could probably touch high 14's (like 14.999 LOL) with some tweaking to what you have now. I'm going to see what I can squeeze out of mine before I throw the 3.4/3400 in. Go to the DIY-Prom section and read through the stickies. Then just start tuning. Most of learning to tune is experimentation.

mtwlkn122

ya i dont want to swap heads yet...i want to keep what i have but get some more out of it....then down the road when i want more and have more money i want to swap to 3400 heads and so on....im looking at doing the mtc-5 cam on my motor...if later in the future i want to do the 3400 swap will this put a hinder on it due to the rpm band? or would that be a good cam to keep. Im not trying to sound cheap but im just trying to figure out everything for now and the future.

Now you say i could get into maybe the low 15's lets say with what i have now?...you are referring to after adding boost right?...i doubt with just tuning and tinkering i could get this n/a motor into the low 15's....i could be wrong tho

And ya i have read into some of those stickies but usually its late at night and im like ehhh this is too hard....maybe ill read some right now as im wide awake and in the ready to get some **** done mood.

As for the turbo what to you recogmend. Ive really been focusing on the to4e(t3/t4 hybrid)....but from what ive read it has some lag up until about 3000 rpm then its holey moley from there on up...idk that sounds like its not bad for the street because i dont want holey moley from the get go...this will be a DD for at least the next year until i can buy a truck. I figure if i can build a lil more bottom end power say like with the right cam and so on that way when i do want to do a full on pull it will pull to 3000 pretty easily that way i can rip off...but at the same time i could also get a higher converter that way i launch at 2800 or something right?

mtwlkn122

Ok bl85c ive spent the last 3 hours on and off only taking a break to wash the firebird....ive read all the stickies and i think i have quite a grasp on the basics...ill prolly need to print them off or have them next to me to refer to but i think i got a good start on some knowledge....here is my question....is there really a whole lot i can do with my stock ecm?...i do have a 91 so ive heard that is good is that correct?...i also just had a new computer put in not to long ago cause the old one failed...my local mechanic did it for cheap...idk how much but it was cheaper then i could buy one on ebay for so i said ya sure man do it...i help him build dirt track cars so we have a good relationship lol...but ya what do you recommend i start with...what program and editor would you recommend through expience for my motor and ecm...should i get or try to find a used scan tool?

...after talking to FirstFirebird and others i think im going to try and tune this motor and see what i can get first...that way i get a handle on tunning before i jump into a turbo project...either this winter or next(money prevailing) i want to pull the motor to paint it and get all new gaskets...the heads have alot of oil on them(doesnt put any oil on the ground but the motor is very nasty)...while im there i plan to check everything over and make sure i have a good solid running motor that way i know im not messing with a half *** motor...then tune a lil more and then go the turbo route. Ive only had the car on the road for 3 months and ive done everything in my sig to it so far...i think im just asking for to much to fast(im 19 what can you expect)...i need to slow down and do this the right way...

so what are you suggestions(or anyone elses for that matter)...stock ecm or swap...what programmer and editor...and once i get there what is a good basline tune to start with...any suggestions or .bin files out there to load up and try?...do they make eeproms(not eproms) for my ecm?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I meant the basic motor, obviously needs more extensive tweaks to get it to that point.

Start out with simple stuff like freshening up the motor, porting while it's apart (kinda like polishing a turd, though), lightening, better induction, headers, better gears like 3.73's, a shift kit (not b&m) and learn to tune it. Then if you want to stay n/a move on to a better cam (have firstfirebird design a profile around your combo), milled 2.8 pistons to bump your compression up (with iron heads only), or 3x00 heads/induction, and valvetrain stuff to get it above 5k where it can really live. A 3.4 block is a good idea nomatter what you do because of the displacement and provisions for dis.

If you want to turbo it a t3/t4 is decent for the 3.1, delta's 823-260 cam or even the stock cam are decent for forced induction- just look for something with atleast -10* of overlap and more exhaust duration/lift. Turbo's like everything about the exhaust to be large. Better gearing and a higher stall converter help get the turbo into the sweet spot quicker, but it will run out of breath with a small turbo as well. Small turbo, restrictive induction and the stock valvetrain equals lightning rev into a quick power dropoff. You can get a 2800+ stall converter, but it's a little pricey for the v6 trans. The stock 2.8 S10 converter stalls at about 2500rpm and is much cheaper.

Forgot you have a '91, you have a '730 ecm which has tons of support. Look up the launch mode feature your ecm has. I use a willems programmer & 27SF512 eeproms. You're going to need an aldl cable and tuning software as well. Tunerpro is pretty much the choice because it's free, popular and you can create your own aldl & bin definition files.

Don't just focus on the motor, your whole car can make you go faster. Trans improvements, lightening, suspension tweaks and optimized gearing are all important to getting the most out of the power you have.