I have nothing but good things to say about this thing.

I was having a problem with the car breaking up and hitting a wall at 5000+ rpms with a new induction system which was killing performance. With the carb i had on there previously it was inconsistent but I managed to wring out good times. I should also mention that I have 10:1 CR and peak power is around 5700 rpm, those two things put a real demand on the ignition system.


I may have skewed my results in that my cap and rotor along with plugs were pretty worn to hell, and i also relocated my ignition coil so that I didnt have a 2 foot coil wire

Install for the MSD was a snap especially since my engine bay is real bare bones. I hard wired it in installed the 6200 rpm rev limiter and off i went.

My high rpm miss is now completely gone and the car pulls like hell to 6 grand. The rev limiter also works like a charm, the engine just hits a brick wall at 6200 on the money.

I did have problems with my tach though, at 5000 rpm it would flutter around and basically stop functioning. I read in the archives how others had wired the tach to the tach output on the actual msd box rather than what the msd instructions tell you. I did just that and the tach works perfectly now. I think this issue is peculiar to 87 through 89 firebirds though.

 

Dur, ya think? Those boxes are almost worthless... FYI- Next time you get an intermittant miss, try disconnecting the box and send iit back to MSD to have it fixed It's just a matter of time...

 

if those boxes are worthless why do people contiue to buy them and put them in there cars weather its stock, a performance car or a boat? obviusly it helps alot better then just good plugs and cap and rotor. hell ill be gettin one along with the MSD distuibutor when i finish my 496 or even before i finish it becuz i wanna run some juice on my 305 till then.

 

Hummm worthless eh? I gave my car the full treatment of the Pro-Billet distributor, 6AL box and the blaster 2 coil. It rewarded me with a noticable gain and car pulls great past 5500 all the way to 7k now. Really like having the rev limiter for peace of mind too and have hit it a couple times during races

 

Might only last 15 years like my 6A did.

 

Except for the fact that they ensure a burn every time at low rpm, and the CD keeps the coil charged for 6000+ rpm operation.

Almost worthless??


-- Joe

 

I've had my 6al for at least 5 years, and I got it used .. Looked at least 5 when i got it too.

-- Joe

 

The manufacturers of multiple-spark systems would like you to think so, anyway. Capacitive systems produce a spark which is of very short duration, while inductive systems produce a very long spark. A CD system needs to fire multiple times to equal the performance of an inductive system. The claim that a multiple spark system provides better ignition at low RPM is probably only true if the comparison is made against a single spark CD system.

 

So far everyone that has praised it has also changed numerous other things at the same time. How do you know what was the cause of your good results? You don't. You just assume that since people have them in their race cars they must work miracles on your LG4.

On a mostly stock or even slightly modified engine I don't thing you'll see any gain or improvement. Most of it will be in your head, convincing yourself you spent $150 wisely.


I know I've run mine at the track connected and disconnected and have run identical times. The only thing I like about it is the rev limiter.

 

While I agree with you, Pablo doesn't have a stock or even slightly modified engine.

 

And I would also imagine that his car will run very similar times with/with out the box... the fact that he changed the broken parts at the same time are the real reason for his gains.

 

Not gonna bother getting into the pissing match.. The CD systems are about the only thing that will keep a single coil motor reving to and beyond 6k..

-- Joe

 

That may be true but the vast majority of people on this site run a TPI system which doesn't sustain power over 6 grand anyways or are running TBI which, well we all know about that now

I just hate seeing people make an MSD box an early mod. Cause I bet 85% of the time it's pointless. You'll see just as much improvement with a good tune up and a good coil.

 

Your right. My point was about the worthless comment. The MSD boxes, or any CDI box has 2 basic purposes. The multiple spark thing, but more important, aiding dwell time on single coil systems.

-- Joe

 

You cant argue with folks who dont understand how an ignition system works.

 

You are absolutely right... for once!

 

My car was was lacking power and good throttle response untill I put the 6A box, blaster 2 coil and morosso wires.

The ignition must have been the weak point seeing as all my other mods got done before it. Mods in sig

 

Again though you changed 3 things at once and gave the credit to the box.


Doesn't prove anything.

 

Agreed. It proves nothign to swap plugs, wires, coils and put a box on there and then say its the box doing it all.

If someone had just added a box by itself, then I would say hey... there is some proof.

 

Never said I changed plugs.

True I can't say the box was the main inprovement, but the coil, wires, and/or box did help alot.

Start ups are also easier.

From what I have read the largest improvements are on carbureted cars.

 

what is this again business? I never claimed the 6a alone did anything for me other than give me a rev limiter and have an easy install.

Go back to your little circle jerk message board

(to the viewers, these instigators all belong to a seperate message board and tend to troll around here in packs so don't pay too much attention to them, hence the "icon" crap in their sigs. If you saw the childishness on that board you'd understand)

 

Maybe you're the one who stated it by saying what a difference the box makes?

Reread you're post again before being an ***.

Noone is instigating ****. All some of us are saying is the box is not a miracle worker, and many time not even needed.

Why don't you go back to cutting up your mom's cutting board for engine parts?

 

No, nothing prior about the MSD box, but do you need us to drag up old posts about TBI and such?

 

go right ahead, but I wouldnt throw stones from glass houses if I were you.

And the cutting board thing started with your boy Jester, not me.


incidentally, now that you bring it up, there are many cutting boards made of wood and phenolic which both happen to be used in.. gues what.... spacers! So for someone who has a hard time getting a hold of phenolic or just wants to experiment with spacers (since of course they are a tuning tool, thats tuning, something you probably dont know much about) It might not be a bad idea to keep your eyes peeled for them. You can pick em up for like 8 bucks.

I dont worry about stuff like that anymore though, being an aircraft mech has its perks.

 

Pablo check your facts. You admitted in your first post that you might have skewed your results by changing other ignition related parts. Instigating, I think not. All they are trying to do is point out that in your case you have proven nothing other than ignition upgrageds helped you. The box is not a miracle worker, it in conjuntion w/ other ignition parts helped your stumbling.
All these guys are trying to do is keep guys from going and spending money on a MSD box that they might not need b/c it has been called a miracle worker...

 

Anyone that says an MSD box is worthless is someone who either

A) Has never owned a car worthy of one
B) Doesnt know a damn thing about HP engines (see A)
C) Is a total dumbass

Course, judging by the attempts at flame bait, most people probably know which one you clowns fall into.

 

The only person who flamed anyone in this was Pablo. It was a good discussion before he got on his high horse.

And I think I own a real car last time I checked buddy. If you seriously think somebody with a 305TBI shoudl be buying an MSD box as one of their first mods then you are the clown. NOONE said that the box isn't worth something on a built engine. The POINT which some of you continue to miss is that it's not going to work miracles like his original post leads you to beleive. If some newbie walked into this post and read the post they would think they need one. It's a little deeper then that. And none of the replies had anyone who just added a box and didn't change anything else at the same time.

Instead of looking for a fight why don't you try reading first.

 

FYI I ran a 400 RWHP car on the stock coil.. This was after the MSD 6AL took a dump.. It did not hurt performance disconnecting it what so ever. Go figure..

A MSD 6AL might be beneficial on a lightly modded car only if it already has worn out ignition parts..not needed at all... but heavily modded cars it could help.

 

What are you running for a coil, and how high do you rev the motor? I find it hard to believe stock ignition keeps on sparking over 6k.

The 6al is the bandaid for single coil systems, end of story.

-- Joe

 

6200-6300. Just stating what I experienced.

How Many TPI based engines will make power at this rpm range, will exclude most of the cars on this site.

 

I know, I agreed with the TPI point earlier in the thread. The problem I have, is the statement about CDI units (msd to be exact) being "worthless".

On a blown motor, a CDI setup really helps light the dense mixture, especially at high RPM.



-- Joe

 

This is what I just said in my other post. Definately not worthless
if used on the right setup..
90 percent of the cars here though..worthless.
Most Blower setups come with some kind of ignition box for the reasons you mentioned.

 

I don't know who you are trying to call out w/ this post... but I didn't see anyone say that a MSD box is worthless. I am actually in need of one right now, and am in the process of getting a Digital 6. Although my setup will benefit from the under 3000 rpm multiple spark etc along w/ the other features of the box. Being I will be spinning well into the 6K range too the ignition will like the box.

Where we are saying they are worthless are on basically stock cars, even bolt on cars where the stock ignition is more than enough to handle the TPI or TBI intakes.

So in conclusion... the MSD boxes are not worthless... they are great on setups that need them... worthless on setups that don't.

 

Second post.. ugg.

-- Joe

 

See, this is why there is such a to do right now. You can’t quantifiably conclude that the MSD was the reason that you can pull to 6K rpm right now. There are stock cars that can do this on a single coil, so long as the system has been taken care of. It’s like saying I swapped in an MSD and new wires (b/c I had two fried on my headers) and now my miss is gone, ostensibly giving the credit to the MSD unit.

Genesis of more than five posts, in reply to this?!? Look at the quote he used, he was being facetious! Lordy are people on here ready on the bit huh? It would be funny if everyone wasn’t ready to jump to all sorts of conclusions and generalities. :shakes head:

Now Pablo watch this… dissention among the ranks:

I disagree. I have put these things on cars and trucks (boats too) and each and every time they have increased their mi/gal. No quantifiable increase in power, however, efficiency in fuel consumption did improve. Depending on how much you drive, they very well may be worth it for that increase alone.

Let’s quickly review here. ‘I can’t say enough about this thing…{my ignition woes were cured} but I may have skewed my results.’ Paraphrased. That would lead any reasonably person to conclude that you were giving the credit of the cure of your ignition woes to the MSD box, so yes you ostensibly gave that inference.

As for the mud-slinging…Well, I instigate on occasion, but as most would agree, never really undeserved or unprovoked and usually I try for a bit of tongue in cheek. Maybe I should start hashing out slanderous words with regard to aviation mechanics?

Why the jab at the board? Sad that you’re gone? Leave out the little fact that you were once a member? Show one thing in one hand and hide the rest behind your back? Man, I thought only Kerry, Kerry quite contrary did that.

What attempts at flame bait?
A) Only post that called it worthless was the facetious one.
B) I think you misread where most of the argument has been.
C) In certain situations and applications it is worthless, hell even unusable. Please quantify your argument otherwise you may look like the dumbass.

Generalizations from you? Not really expected, but hey? Like I alluded to above, one person does not make the group. I would assume from your statement that I am a clown? Good, I can make people laugh. That group would also include the 'clowns' ede, RB, and Vader to name a few. I think it’s very good company to keep, but wth do I know right? I’m just a clown.



Finally, let’s keep it in perspective folks:

Were it my car, with that top speed and that 60', I’d be looking for some traction more than ignition. :shrug:

 

flame baithow do you know???

Doesnt matter what kind of engine he has, the statement was, they are worthless.

 

Facetious. Take it in the context presented.

Then why doesn't my lawnmower have an MSD 6AL hanging off it?

 

Excuse me, I didnt pick up the sarcasm that was intended, if this is the case, then sorry. However, regardless, any car engine will benefit from an MSD box. Your lawnmower may too, Tim the toolman taylor had one that would 0-60 5 seconds flat.

 

heres wht i thik the msd is really best for: not only for blower apps as stated before but on motors where the choice of cam/ compression ratio creates huuge cylinder pressures:confused...does tht sound reasonable

 

when i first started to have ignition problems i went to gm and bought a new hei dist. and coil. i also put in new plugs and wires at the same time. the car would still not pull worth a damn past 6000rpm. 2 days later i ordered an msd digital 6, blaster ss coil, and billet dist. by some stroke of luck the car pulls all the way to the end of the power band now i dont have a very modified engine at all, about 325 rwhp, and shift at 6300 rpm.


take it for what its worth, but obviously the stuff works

 

Anethes,

Thought I would throw in some info regarding your
comment about doubting if a stock ignition keeps sparking
over 6000 RPM.

I have a 331 in my 69 Chevelle. I have a Accel coil/solid copper
wires with a single point distributor w/Accel hi-po points.

7500 is NO problem ! Pulls clean and hard. Some things are not as they seem to be. For years, I ran points in many of my 10-11
second cars with on problem

Yep, those were the days




Anycar John. ( at least thats what my friends call me )

 

 

Well aside from most of the flames, and smart @$$ remarks etc.........

IMO I am pretty happy with MSD box on my CARBED 383....
Yes it is more practical to add a MSD system later on when your motor and HP numbers are at higher RPM's and you need that good spark through all that RPM band........

It isn't a critical device but it is no different than adding 8.5mm plug wires or Bosch Platinum 4+ plugs or synthetic oil over conventional oil.......little things like those all add up but are no REAL impact......

Every person that owns a bird or camaro will usually strive to make their engine the best it can be.......

Whether its putting on individual little pieces to a huge HO motor or just a stock 305........

I believe that this forum section is for product reviews.......I believe the intent by most of you here IS exactly that.....

aside from the flames and smart @$$ remarks you have all made valid points about the MSD system itself.....next time avoid the cat fight and maybe somebody will get through the whole thread and actually learn something.......just my .02

 

Little diddy:

I run one, 6AL now was a 6A. 302, carbed, same cam as Pablo, same compression as a matter of fact. Same ET's, more MPH than his slow as molasses Fireturd. Car ran fine until one day it decided that anything past 5k RPM@WOT was no good, it would pop, sputter, and generally run like ****. I tried everything, replaced every wire, went through numerous spark boxes, caps, coils (even got a free Stinger Ignition coil that I still have today) plugs and other stuff because... I worked at a parts store. I even went to the archaic single and double points systems to no avail. The car spent more than a month at a Ford dealer where some friends worked and I put some time in, and not a single person could fix it. It was on a scope, they tried different boxes, distributors, etc. One day I ripped the 6A off my TA (only thing I felt it did on there was a smoother idle) and put it on the stang, and the problem went away and has never returned.

Take that as you wish.