got a gift card from AZ this christmas! I have been eyeballing a performance coil and was interested in putting one on the bird.
I've put perf. coils on standard ign. systems w/good results (faster starts, better milage, and so on) and was interested in feedback on coils/externally mounted for EST ign. on 88 305's.
Does anybody have info (good or bad) on installing these coils?
are they worth the 50 bucks and is there any drawbacks?
Thanks in adv. sqzbox

 

do not use EITHER!!!!

my "new accel" coil, died within 2 months of normal wear!!!

the MSD is crap too, only works when it wants to, Kevin who is a moderator on this site, had an MSD coil and it died on him last night.

my Stock GM AC Delco coil has been the best since and i have never had one die.

not even worth 50$, they are garbage, total crap.
you wont see any gain at all from to a"so called perfomance coil", they are gimmic's.

the stock one will supply enough for your needs. unless you are a 600hp engine and have an upgraded distributer and need one, then dont bother at all.

and dont even think about buying an MSD box, total garbage as well. infact, i had one and just this week i finally figured out that the miss in my engine was caused by that damn MSD. i unplugged it, and my car is waaaaaaay better.

 

Ive used both, and never had a single problem with either one.

 

Here we go again..... I have NEVER had issues with msd at all and would never use anything else. I have an msd distributor, coil and digital 6 box. Maybe you installed it wrong. Personally I would never buy anything from Accel. I think all their stuff is crap just like their fuel injectors. The msd coil will work fine....I would stick with the stock delco coil myself unless you are upgrading the entire ignition system.

 

yeah i installed a coil wrong

gimmie a break.. seriously

MSD 6A box, went bad after 2 years.. i kept on having a weird missfire in while at regular crusing speed, just to see if that was the cause, i pulled the plugs from the coil and went back to the stock hook up.. and what do you know.. car is back to running great again.

Captpicard i think you really need to research your stuff before you say i installed it wrong.

look at sqzbox's car.. its a stock LO3 auto.. why would anyone want to buy just a coil for that car? waste of money.

have you actually noticed any significant gains with using all MSD stuff? do you have any dyno runs or factual #'s to back it?

im not flaming you by anymeans. i have never seen or been shown anything with significant gains to warrant the purchase of those boxes, on stock, near stock, modded cars. who knows, maybe the guys running alchy injection do see a difference, then again they are not using the 6A, or a stock replacement blaster coil. which is really what it is.. stock replacement.

his 50$ would be better spent on spark plugs, or 8.5mm plug wires, than a coil.

 

so far i haven't had any probs with my msd 40,000 miles so far.i did notice that it really smoothed out the car and seemed like it pulled harder.but i went with the whole msd package.if i was him i would just go with a stock replacement.

 

I haven't had good luck with msd either installed 2 6al's in 3 years both went out . I switched to mallory hyfire 6 we will see what it does.

 

Ahh.... already have the 8.5's and the rapid fire plugs. Also have a 3" cat back and a open element air filter. Thing is, during the first 5 or 10 mi. after cold start it feels like I've got 250hp and after it gets warmed up real good (about 20mi. or so) it drops back to about 180hp. Thought maybe the coil was getting weak.

 

i have a msd billet dist. and coil in my wifes 89 camro 305 tbi for 2 yrs. i really noticed a diff with the coil which i bought from AZ.

keene

 

Neither. Go with the hypertech coil. It's black like the stock coil, has a brass terminal, and puts out 55,000 volts.

 

Maybe you should reread my posts before replying with stupid banter. Telling him not to use either wasnt right. It wont hurt him to try one. He knows what his engine is and so do I. I also said he should try something else with his money. He simply wanted to know which one of the two to get. Why is is everytime someones asks a question like that someone always jumps in and says "neither." Well, I happen to think msd is better if he was to get one. And yes there are noticeable improvements. Notice I didnt say..."significant." Anyone who understand these sytems such as MSD would know that you will get better firing of the plugs etc.

 

Details on this please.

You know... cost, retailer, catalog numbers...

This upgrade is on the list for sure.

 

I really like my MSD6A and blaster coil. I soldered the wires in instead of buying the wire harness for $30. Works great for me. I do have accell 8mm wires though. The MSD superconductors were a bit pricy for my liking.

 

I put a blaster coil in my daily driver, it died 2 weeks later. I put one in my IROC about a year ago, and now it lets some fireworks out of it when the car is running.


MSD did replace with one that died in two weeks, and it has been running great since with no problems.

 

I tend to stick with the main brands on stuff for my engine and car. I have tried others with bad luck. I have never had issues with msd at all.

 

50$ down the drain hurts.


if you honestly want cheap mods for a TBI, do the "Free TBI Mods" in the tech section, also would be to get a fuel injector spacer, as well as an Air Raid throttle body spacer.

i used these on my 92 TBI and my 93 Chevy Tahoe with the TBI.. and the throttle response is awesome.

the injector spacer is 15$ from Turbo City, or TDS. the Air raid is about 45$. Keep using the Delco coil. it will meet your needs.

 

Your either doing something wrong or getting a bad product.... I've had accel coil and wires for 2 years with no problems at all... same as some other members so dont try and say the product is **** before asking what experinces others have had with X products.. maybe you just got a bad one 1 or more times.. not saying anyone doesnt know what their doing at all just that bad products do get out to the consumers its just something that happens..

 

I have used accel products and I think it's ****, if you do a search you will also find I'am not alone in this thinking and I can't believe how many people post here complaining about there crappy injectors to. Now I'am not saying MSD is any better but I would trust them over any accel product.

Just for the record my MSD 6AL box has been going strong for about 35k and my MSD coil is working fine also.

 

You come down on the coils, and then offer the Air Raid.

You are cracked! Those do nothing. I've seen dyno sheets that show an actual loss in the bottom end, so your better throttle response is all in your head.

 

did i say on TPI?? no

on TBI, yes you will see an increase since TBI is basically the same as a carbed set up. why do you think carbed guys put spacers under the carb? you get the same result on TBI since the air and fuel are mixed at the same point.

take your 18 year old know-it-all attitude, and shove it.

so i guess a carb spacer is crap too right?? moron

 

 

There's a big difference between a carb spacer and an Air raid, up here it's about a $60 difference.

My attitude has probably turned more wrenches then you have so blow me.

 

:shrug: Depends which color best-coordinates with your underhood "decor"

 

Ive had good luck with MSD so far i have heard good and bad stuff about accel. i heard accels spark plugs are really junk.

 

I've heard many problems about both the MSD and Accel stuff but I have never personally experianced it since I never used either.

I have had a Jacobs ignition system (box, coil and wires) for the last 15 years I have just been swapping from vehicle to vehicle. It is awesome, faster starts and quicker throttle response.

 

Classic

 

sorry i dont preffer the male gender.. but it seems you might..



so basically the price issue is your beef.. ok then try street performance in summit racing.. its cheap and still a spacer.. happy yet?


i like the way you try and make yourself seem like a "big man" who knows everything.. right.. keep telling yourself that.

 

When my brother was down at Linclon Tech, they had a 350 in which they had on the dyno and they took MSD igntion parts one by one and put them on the motor and ran it on the dyno to see what parts inceased power and which didnt.....he said that the ONLY part that increased power was the MSD ignition control module http://www.jegs.com//cgi-bin/ncommer...41&prmenbr=361

that chip alone gained them 15hp on the dyno.....

 

If this is alot of stop and go traffic it the power loss could be your open air cleaner from all the hot air being sucked in. This is my problem during the summer, but mostly do to the uncoated headers and open air cleaner setup.

I was running accel shorty plus for two years now and after one year(about 1,000 or less miles) one of the plug got a hairline crack in it where you could actually see the sparks. From what I have read on this site hypertech and accel products are junk.

MSD you are paying for the name but their products are quality and I noticed a vast difference when I got the blaster 2 coil, 6box, and new moroso wires(the Super HEI kit that recently went up $43). What I noticed was way better throttle response and better start up not to sure about mileage maybe a little. The car alos became more driveable and seemed like more power, but my car was out of tune a little before and had on old ignition except for the ditributor.

 

Neither..

Get a F.A.S.T eDist, and ls1 coils.


-- Joe

 

you dont add ignition to get HP you get better economy and smoother performance.... plus you NEED it for some app like high compression or boost

 

Killjoy: I'm puzzled... you're telling the guy that a coil and/or an MSD box isn't worth the money on a stock car. Yet, you're saying that he'd be better off spending his $50 on aftermarket 8.5mm super conductors on a stock (or near stock) car? I'm sorry, but between getting a coil, an MSD box, or spark plug wires, I'd much rather get the coil or the MSD box over the plug wires (provided that my current wires are still good).

FWIW, my MSD 6AL died on me right outside the speed shop that I got it from. It was still under warranty, so I disconnected it and drove my camaro home to get the receipt. I drove about 30 mins to my house, and it was a combo of highway and city driving. After returning with the receipt, I got a replacement 6AL which I hooked up in the parking lot, and drove back home. I definately noticed an improvement in throttle response right off the bat. I also had a bit better gas mileage and my emissions ran a little better.

Yeah, MSD is not 100% reliable... but name me a manufacturer that is 100% perfectly reliable.

If you want to ask for dyno #s, then maybe I should ask you to PROVIDE us with a ratio of people who've been successful with MSD vs people who've had problems with MSD?

You might've had or KNOWN someone who's had bad luck with a particular product. But that doesn't mean that every other part that they produce is crap. Noone is perfect. Yeah, it sucks to have something go on you... but that's life.

 

I'm disappointed! I don't see how what your talking about relates to my application w/est ign. I know my performance mod's are limited with a 305 computer, but I was just wondering if a higher voltage coil would help with my system. Every car that I have modded, adding a hoter coil improved starting, fuel economy, and performance. I know it doesn't add power but brings out what the engine is capable of due to better combustion from a hotter spark. Anyone know what the voltage rating of the external stock coil on my system is? and how much the aftermarket one is? My guess is if the stock one is 30 0r 35 K volts and I boost that to 40 or 50K with an aftermarket one, a gain in performance should be seen with a hotter spark that should improve combustion! Fact is, I'm an old carb guy and don't know if anything is to be gained with the comp. controled timming and TBI. It sure made a difference with my 455ci when I stuck a accel super coil on it!

 

Voltage isn't the issue. As long as there is enough voltage to jump the plug gap then any excess coil capability is not utilized. Most combustion events don't utilize over 10K volts at the most lean conditions. This is for non supercharged or tubo apllications of course. What is improved with performance coils is the saturation rate and amperage output of these ignitions. Performance coils allow the ignition of fuel to happen at a higher rate and quicker coil saturation allows the available amperage to rise to a higher level between cylinder firings.

 

sqzbox, your voltage output estimates are pretty close: stock coil puts out about 37,000 volts; Accel's is about 43,000 volts; MSD and Mallory coils make about 48,000 volts; Hypertech's is about 55,000 volts; Crane's Fireball coil is around 60,000 volts; and I think Jacobs has one too, also around the high 50's to 60,000 volt range.

Any of them should work fine, so it's a matter of personal preference, brand name you like and trust, and as silly as it might've sounded in my original post... depends which color you want to see when you open your hood--red, yellow, blue or black.

 

i've run accel, msd, and mallory parts and never had any issues with any of them (other than having a wire get burned on a header). had an msd coil for a while, worked for 2 yrs then gave it to a friend. running a mallory coil cause it was the only "performance" coil around when i needed one. use accel wires, although wouldnt mind trying taylor.

ignition has never been my problem with my 400. just fuel

 

it should be noted also that the performance of teh stock ign falls off badly above 3500 rpms or so

 

I used to run the Accel 300+ ignition box, along with Accel 300+ 8.8mm race wires, coil, cap, rotor, and pickup module. That was until the box left me dead on the roadside after two years. To make matters worse, no warranty. When I bought the box, it came with a "lifetime warranty". Since I bought it, Accel changed the warranty on their 300+ boxes and mine no longer carries the warranty.

Now that I've been gathering parts for my newest motor, I find out Accel has discontinued the billet distributor that fits my car (and truck for that matter).

On the MSD side, I have friends and co-workers who have run MSD boxes and components for much much longer without the slightest problem. My new engine is getting all MSD parts. My truck will be getting a few new Pertronix parts.

 

ive had the accel super coil on my car for almsot 3 yrs now and not a problem. my brother used accel and Msd for over 5 yrs. not a problem with either.

i have the accel super coil, 8.8 wire, plugs, and cap on my car. no problems since i put that stuf on over 2 1/2 yrs ago.

my brother put the accel super coil and 8mm wires on his sport coupe and that was atleast 4 yrs ago and its still got the same coil, minus a few differnt plug wires since a few got toasted on the headers.

i think its like russian rulet, its a 50/50 chance you get something bad. maybe the guy puttin the stuff together had a bad day at the plant. its all chance.

and by tellin someone not to buy something when there askin for some info on the products is okay but you dont have to like rub it into them that accel and msd make crap parts. if youve had bad luck just let the person know what happened to you. maybe he will have better luck who knows.

 

i use msd i have coil and box no problems for me.

 

MSD heavy duty wires rule, the 8.5mm I think? I run them on both my TPI cars. I run the 10mm Magnecors on the TTA. Talk about ultra silly low resistance lol.

Accell and Taylor wires have proven themselves to be junk time and time again. Multiple sets on multiple cars, I will not use them again.

The MSD box, I do like it and you do tend to notice a difference when idling, you wont feel it when your doing a 120 unless its band aiding some other failing part of your ignition. Also on failures of the ignition box, mine has stopped working twice, however shortly thereafter I also found out that my pick up coils in the distributor were on their last legs. I havent got the new engine running yet to find out if this indeed holds true or not. It will be installed with a completely new MSD distributor and my 6a box if it works again.

First thing first for all of you people here who dont know. The pick up coil is in the bottom of that mess under the cap when u take off the rotor. Check yours very very carefully, if u see any deterioration of the insulation surrounding it replace it as soon as it is humanly possible for you. Also you will see the wires coming out of it(should be yellow and green?), these also tend to crack and become brittle with age as our cars have very high underhood temps. Use a mirror and check these out as well, usually you will find the wires cracking and brittle as well as the insulation deteriorating as well. Even the metal/magnetic charge fades and/or the pieces crack as they age and heat. There are many types of troubles to be had with factory ignition systems, I have tried to paint a picture of the farily common ones.

Dont always go blaming whatever you plugged into the car as the first problem. It may be over aggravating an exisintg issue or creating one of its own simply because a signal it needs to see in full, is cut in half or intermittently skips, causing that flutter or miss that happens only a "x" rpm.

In the last year I have replaced 3 pickup coils in my own and firiends cars. Thinking about doing my all original GTA at 50k just cause I know its gonna go out. My Formula(tpi 350 91) made it to about 90k something on the odometer. When I took it apart I was floored it ran as long as it did. I replaced it and all was fine. At about the 110k mark the pick up piece was no longer in the land of magnetized. U could spin the distrib and only feel it have a magnetic pulse once(if u spin a distrib u can feel it catch all 8 points on the shaft as u spin it, it is a magetic trigger after all).

Swapped in a old one from a friend and spun it and could feel all 8 pulses/catches. Guess what? About 2-3 mths later it got a new pickup coil too. Just like all the others. Replaced it and drove ot for a mth or two and parked it too rebuild engine and suspension. It will be getting the aforemnetioned MSD distrib as well :-)

Pick up coils are easy to test too.(besides physical signs, i.e. the cracking insulation and deterioration) The wires should not be shorted to each other(should ohm OL) should not be shorted to grd(ohm OL) and when cranking shoud register roughly .5v AC.

If yours isnt doing that or weak, its time to go.

I'm almost willing to lay money on most people on this board have not ever considered removing the distributor to rebuild it or replace the ign module or even to put fresh grease under the module.

Yes they are reliable, and they still fail, a little preventative maintenance and a couple hrs of your time replacing/rebuilding it and more than likely you should never experience a failure with it.
Heat kills electronics, ask anyone here that turns wrenches for a living.

Well I hope my rant gave you all something to think about and hopefully may even help a few of you out and save you a breakdown or two.

later and thanks
Jeremy