chevyguy1969

iTrader: (7)

I recently purchased this kit off Ebay since the concept and price seemed very good. Matt offers 3 different kits which are explained in the auction. Just search for "tpi runner" and I am sure one of the results will be the kit. I opted for the top of the line kit which included all chrome-moly repair ***** instead of 4 wooden ones and the instructional DVD. I highly recommend the DVD as Tony takes you through all the prep and execution of using the kit.

First I want to say I am not here to bash his kit as I still think it is a good idea. Maybe my results were from user error, maybe not. I have included some photos and captions below and I will let the TGO community be the judge.

Some things that are not mentioned in the auction include some tools you will need to have on hand to make the repair properly. This includes some sort of grinder or rotary tool to grind down the inner flanges of the tubes, a hammer (Matt recommends brass) with a skinny head that can go deep in to each runner, an oil can full of 5w motor oil, and a sanding bit for your rotary tool of choice.

Below is what the runner looked like after I accidently struck it with a rubber mallet last weekend. Not horrible but definitely an eye sore.



This is basically what kit consists of. 6 Chrome-moly ***** with one being slightly larger than the other 5 as you can see on the top right of the set.


With the inner flanges ground down (Matt explains this in the DVD) I wrapped the mounting flange surface with tape and wrags to protect it as I was using a steel hammer. A brass hammer was no where to be found in the Austin area! I coated the ball with oil and squirted a generous amount of oil in to the tube and started hammer. As Matt describes just getting it started and past the mounting flange area is the hardest. My experience was no different and once past it was easy hammering and smooth sailing till the ball hit the other end of the tube and the other mounting flange area.


I kept checking my progress as I went along and everything looked good top side. The dent was gone and now I was just battling to the ball past the flange and out of the tube. For some reason I did not check to see if I was doing any damage which I my error 100% If I had saw it I would have tried to push the ball back out in reverse. The pics below show what I have done.



Now the runner is basically useless and non-repairable. Maybe I should have bought the kit with the 4 wooden *****. That way they might have cracked and broke before I did damage to the runner. I can "what-if" it all I want now so with this I have bit the bullet and have a set of SLP cast runners on their way thanks to a fellow TGO'er.

Again please make your own conslusions about this kit. Matt clearly demonstrates in the DVD that this does work and works well leaving nothing to the imagination. Just keep in mind how soft the aluminum tubes are and regularly check your progress, no matter which phase you are in.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Aw man, I just picked up this kit last night. Don't show me this. >.<

chevyguy1969

iTrader: (7)

Don't be scared, just pay attention as you go and you will probably be fine.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Or you could just buy new runners.

I myself have about three sets lyin' around. Heck I have friends who don't even have TPI's who have runners lyin' around. I just didn't know repairing was something people did.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

The cool thing about this kit is that it enlarges your runners slightly. Not as much as the guy says (he claims as much as aftermarket runners), but for a $45 kit, it's definitely cheaper than buying the set of Edelbrock/Slp/AS&M runners.

It increases the diameter of your runners to 1.511 inches, which is .041 larger than stock, and .149 smaller than AS&M runners. Doesn't do anything for length though.

paulo57509

FWIW, this technique is used to remove dents from brass musical instruments.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Heck, one could probably take the runners to music shop and have them repair them. Gives "Tuned Port Injection" a whole new meaning!

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

I had the same problem. I think the actual problem lies in the friction created. I bought a spare set of runners and already screwed up every tube on one just like pictured above. But I didn't clean it all down with acetone and make sure it was completely oiled, in a short word I was doing a rush job. I think if you did everything exactly like the dvd it would probably work so if you expect the same results as the dvd take your time.

tpi90rs

iTrader: (2)

why couldn't you slightly port the runners first?

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

you do port them first and either we didn't port them enough or there is another problem.

Wrenchp

Isn't there dents in the bottom of the runners to clearance the bolt that hold the runners on the intake? Could this be why the ***** are getting stuck in the runner?

darbysan

I just did this last evening with a new kit I bought. I had the same problem of puting extra dents into the runners trying to get the ***** all the way through. So I decided to stop when the large ball got close to the opposite flange. Just reversed the process using the smaller ***** to "back" the larger ball back up. I did run into a problem getting the larger ball to go back through the first flange, and put more dents in to the tube.
I think the answer is to go slow, and be sure you have ported enough. I started going back in with the dremel tool and sanding bit on the starting flange prior to "Reversing" direction and this seemed to work. By the way, I always started at the botttom, where the dents for the bolts were from the factory. Took those out with no big isssue!

Got another tip to use Miller Lite beer in the runners, and then Freeze them. Had some success, but not perfect. If you do this, be sure to seal off one end with Duct tape, and then be sure that you have no air pockets in the runner. I also tried with just plain water.

One thought I had was to Freeze water in the runner, and then while frozen "tap" down any bulges that I had created using the *****. Thought the water might act as a "dolly" inside, allowing some deformation of the aluminum without creating another dent. Any thoughts?

RedHawkLB9

i would rather save up and get nicer better performing runners anyways

87SSTPI

iTrader: (7)

Just in case anyone does decide to use this kit then please learn from what others(and myself) have already learned. DO NOT think you are going to run the ball all the way through the runner from top (plenum side) to bottom (intake side) without stopping just before the indents for the bolt clearances on the bottom. Then you feed the push ***** back from the opposite side and retrieve your larger ball. Push it through from the bottom (intake side) to finish it up without destroying your runners. This kit DOES work, and maybe the guy explains this method in his video, but I got my kit used and had to learn on my own without any video. Also, I used a heavy rubber mallet and struggled. I then picked up my Estwing (clawhammer) and it was SO MUCH easier to get the ***** to move. I lubed the runner insides with petroleum jelly (vaseline). You will NEED to ream the insides of the runner tube entrances/exits until most of the hump is completely removed or even though you force the ball in, when you change direction and try to bring it back out you will damage the runner tube.

Take your time, do EVERYTHING people have suggested about doing and this does work.

As far as why people would want do it? I will probably NEVER pay what retarded prices aftermarket runners cost. They are made from aluminum, not gold. JMO

centralcoaster

I stumbled on this today...

Do not buy this kit from him. This ebayer pirated one of my photos and tech threads from Corvetteforum and piled a bunch of lies on top of that along with a $52 price tag on the chrome ball set.

I purchased these chrome ***** at Mcmaster Carr (mcmaster.com). You need p/n 9528K64, for the 1.5" ball ($5.34), and p/n 9528K63 for the 1-7/16" ***** ($13.64 for a set of two). Their shipping is very fast and cheap, they have 2 warehouses across the U.S.

The correct technique is to first port the ends of the runner, then tap the smaller ball through both ends. Next tap the larger one about 1/3 of the way in, and use the 2nd one behind it to slam the first one through the entire runner, simply by shaking the runner back and forth repeatedly. I don't know what method is in his video he's selling, but if you try to hammer the ***** all the way through you will damage it as shown by the previous poster.

Then trade them to your next TPI friend for a 6 pack of beer. This clown has sold almost 100 of these "kits" on ebay. What a shame.

Here's the thread on how I removed dents from damaged runners, including the stock divots around the bolts:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...-possible.html

The image links are dead (old server), but I re-uploaded them here.

If you have questions on this, email me, as I don't come on here much.

mike40sm2

Sent off for this and i am in the Uk.
Read all about it and yes it works BUT you must make sure you grind down one port low enough and when tapping ball through make sure you support without leaning on work bench as you will re dent runners when tapping.
Dont grind down both ends push ball through then tap back again do not try pushing it right through just take your time it does work i have done 2 so far.

Krik

iTrader: (4)

Why do people bump these old *** threads?

Mystyk_Wynds

Actually lets look at numbers. This way there is some basic understanding.
CSA= cross section IE. area D= diameter. So lets lay this out, so you can see in theory what you are actually changing.
Numbers indicated on this forum
stock runner flows 203 cfm @ 28"

So lets look at area.
stock is 1.47 D/CSA= 1.68 in sq..
1.511 S/CSA= 1.79 in sq. After the ball has been put through the runners.

Doesn't seem like much, but thats a 6.2% increase in CS. This DOES have an effect. More so than most know. Lets put some more math to this. A good average is 115-118 cfm per Sq. In.. A good avg is 2 cfm/hp. All things perfect its 1.45cfm/hp.

1.47 D CSA= 1.68 in sq.. = 193.2 cfm = Max hp/pipe 96.6
1.51 D CSA= 1.79 in sq. = 205.9 cfm = Max hp/pipe 102.95

Lets go farther shall we? With these air flow calculations.(based on intake flow NOT head flow). This also changes peak torque rpm, Max hp and Max rpm for air flow.
305=Max hp/rpm Stock (1.47)-366hp@6.6K / TQ peak@3886
305=" " Mod (1.51)-390hp@7.1k / " "4141
350=" " Stock (1.47)-366hp@5.8k / TQ peak@3386
350=" " Mod (1.51)-390hp@6.1k / " "3608

http://www.wallaceracing.com/calcafhp.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/runnertorquecalc.php

Also you will find plotted graphs to verify the effect on runner diameter and cam duration on 3 different TPI systems.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...culations.html

So all in all now you know how much of a difference that little bit of size can REALLY make. Effectively your retuning the engine.

Just Slightly, minute, miniscual, Eh?

peterc005

@Mystyk_Wynds - interesting post.

The Project

iTrader: (6)

My old stock runners had a few minor dents on them.

Bought a set of used TPIS runners. Flow problem solved.

Mystyk_Wynds

Most of the time though, using a enlarged runner on a stock 305, turns them into old *** street dogs, they just won't run, KILLS the lower end. On a 350, it wakes them up.

The idea was mainly to let ppl know mathematically the theoretical after effect of what you could be doing. Its the same concept of hoggin out a port, there could be a major consequence of what your doing, changing flow characteristics, volume, velocity. Be it good or bad.
The tpi systems are very, very, very sensitive to even the most miniscule changes, as seen in my writing.

7T8LS6

Thanks for posting this up. You have saved me $$$$. I have about 30 tuned ports in my storage and all need some degree of dent removal.

PAFORM350

Wow. I should have read this when it was first posted