Hello, I've seen comparisons between these two intakes. The problem is they always use a 383 or 406 engine with a cam in the high 230s-240s duration so obviously the engine will prefer a shorter runner intake. But what about a smaller displacement engine?My engine is a 350 with a SuperRam. I'll be installing AFR street eliminators 195cc along with a Comp Cams 280XFI cam. I was thinking about either porting the SuperRam or buying a Stealth Ram to replace it. I'll appreciate your feedback. Thanks

 

Actually this is an interesting question since you threw in the term "ported SuperRam." I have not work on a Holley Stealthram so I have to qualify my statements. Out of the box or mild work it would be no question the Stealthram.

It would seem to me a worked over SuperRam "might" have the advantage of a slightly longer runner that would allow you to be able to put the power where you want it. I'm in the process of working on a SuperRam now. With work and welding the runner part can be opened up to at least a 1.75" diameter and maybe a little more. Maybe 1.775". We are going to shorten up the actual runner length to 2 inches. The rest will become plenum.

The intake manifold can be opened up to 1.800" at the runner entrance. At the head entrance it can be opened up to at least 2.3 square inches and JerryWho is going for more. With a 355 something in the 2.2 square inch range should suffice. How this compares to a Holley Stealthram I can't say.

Let me say that we are doing the same thing with SLP runners and a Edelbrock intake manifold. So theoretically there should be no difference between a modified TPI and a modified SuperRam.

Now in regard to cost the Holley would be the cheapest route to go. The other to are however smog legal.

 

How are you planning on shortening the runners? "siamesing" the runners a few inches where they meet the plenum? About cost effectiveness, well, I already have the SuperRam, so I would just sell it and buy a HSR if I choose that setup. I always liked the SR, though. But the HSR looks killer and I thought that It might be better for the AFR heads and XFI cam. On the other hand, LPE uses a ported SR with their 383 L98 engine and I have even seen them used on 406 engines, which leads me to believe that a ported SR could flow the needs of an air hungry 350 with 280cfm flowing heads and 6500RPM shift points.

 

BTW, I just got a Ram Air I hood, so hood clearance is not a problem.

 

Correct we are siamesing the runners with about 2 inches left.

 

Please let me know your results. Sounds like a nice project. How do you think this will compare to the HSR?

 

I really have not had any experience with the HSR so I don't know what can be done with it. We have flowed the Super Ram/Edelbrock style base and getting 320cfm out of it is no problem with a reasonable cross sectional area. JerryWho is taking it a step further and the results should be interesting.

The advantages the Super Ram has is that it is smog legal and you can vary the runner length to fit your motors rpm range. It also has a large plenum area.

The advantages the HSR has is it is better out of the box and the cost will be less. The runner length lends itself to higher rpm performance.

I'm waiting for others to chime in.

 

The stealthram is easy to work on, cheap, and doesn't have to be dicked with to make decent power.

If you had no intake at all, it'd be a no brainer.

 

i have a 383 mildly ported/cleaned up HSR, 195 heads, 230/245 cam and just went 11.67 at 116 on a hot day not fully tuned and a weaker launch than its capable of

Your 355 with that cam and AFR heads WILL GO to 6500rpms no doubt. AFR springs are perfect for XFI stuff. Get their 8019 spring up grade for 100 bucks more you will not regret it and its the best choice for that cam


the HSR will support your rpm range with that cam, it does for my 383, it will for your 355.

If you get superam with the work that 1989GTATransAm describes, you will run practically the same with maybe more torque and slightly lower rpm peak at probly 6000-6200. Out of the box however i dont think the superam will compete with the HSR

HSR is easy to install to. Thats a good bonus

 

"Out of the box however i dont think the superam will compete with the HSR"

I agree. It takes some work and money to get the SuperRam or a TPI system to compete. The reason we are going that route is to be smog legal here in California.

 

To say that working on the HSR is easier than on the SR would be an understatement. That SR is a PITA to work on.

Hey, Orr89RocZ,
Where in the rpm range does your 383 peak? It looks your setup is very similar with the one I am doing on my 350.

Hey, 1989GTATransAm
What kind of work was done to the SuperRam to get 320cfm?

Another thing, my car is a street car but I wouldn't worry about being emissions legal. Could you guys with SuperRam and Stealth Ram setups, who have dyno #s, please post them? Some graphs would be even better. Thanks

 

There are a couple of threads dealing with how to open up a TPI style intake manifold to flow 320cfm.

 

i'd say my 383 peaks in the 6000-6200 rpm range. I shift at 6500 and ran best times so far. by my weight and current trap speed i estimate power to be in the 390-400 whp range but i expect alot more with some tuning and better air intake setup.

 

So my engine should peak at about the same rpm, given that it has a slightly milder cam but also 33 cubic inches less, I think. That sounds good. How about you 1989GTATransAm? Where did you engine use to peak?

 

Well, that is a good question. We quit the dyno pull at 6350rpm and the power was still climbing. When switching from rpm to speed the power is even a little higher on the DynoJet graph. So for now lets just say 6400rpm.

With my new build I will be switching to the new AFR 195 Eliminator Competion heads that flow quite abit better than my current heads and I expect things to go higher including the shift point.

 

I have a Super Ram 383 with a 280XFI. Your setup should work ok, given you already have and are familiar with the Super Ram.

 

Any kind of numbers for your setup Flip? Is the SuperRam unported?

 

Look at the sticky post on the TPI board "Our quest for a better flowing TPI." That gives my dyno results with a ported SuperRam, ported and Siamesed runners, and TPIS large tube runners. You can also search the TPI board for posts by JerryWho, as he is the one who did the work on my intake manifold and runners to get it to flow 320 cfm.

 

No dyno tuning yet, just seat of the pants to get drivability.
May take it to the dyno in August.
Super Ram is not ported beyond taking some rough edges out.

 

Thanks . I'll check that out.

 

According to Stealthram.com, these are the individual runner flow numbers:

Runners (measured individually)
Stock 203.17 cfm
ACCEL 242.02 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL. 275.83 cfm
Super Ram 289.18 cfm
Intake manifold with 3/8 inch radiused inlet .222.45 cfm
Holley stealth ram 275.00 cfm


So, does that mean that the runners are good enough for a good set of heads. Then the only porting needed will be for the baseplate, with a little clean-up for the runners?

 

it can be close enough for a good set of heads. when you combine the runners with a base the overall flow is hurt because of the length

if the base flows 280, and the runners flow 280, it doesnt mean both together will flow 280 and infact its probly less.

add the intake to the heads and more than likely the heads will now flow less than when they were tested on the flow bench. A big trick in engine building i've read is to port the intake manifold to allow the heads to flow as close to the intake-less flow numbers the heads are capable of without the intake Most cases you just use a intake that is capable of flowing atleast the head's peak number and generally you want it to be 10-20 cfm higher to limit how much the intake hurts the headflow once bolted up

 

Orr is correct in his analysis. I would say those peak numbers might be "good enough" for say Trickflow heads. However time has moved on since those numbers were posted.

Those numbers would choke the new AFR heads. I would say you need something around 300+cfm for the 195 Eliminators and something around 320+ or more for the Competition version.

I don't know what can be done with the StealthRam but I feel very confident we will get up around 320cfm with the SuperRam. This will be with a total runner length of around 13.5" like on the LSX manifolds.

 

320 cfm is insane, thats super victor range i believe. I just had a mag test (i know, its a mag test so take it with a grain of salt or however the saying goes) where they took a bunch of manifolds and flow tested them before/after porting. Its amazing how poor some of those ports are. I mean 30cfm variance in some cases... thats pooooor!

But i also know the stealth ram seems to work ok i mildly ported mine out and it was a quick rough job. I bet i left alot on the table

 

I stated in another post that the TPI style intake manifold itself is actually a pretty good design. All the runners are equal length. They are virtually straight across with very little in the way of bends.

What needs to be done is opened them up to the proper cross sectional area and taper and then choose what length runner you want for your combination. I really think we have stumbled into something.

Working with the SuperRam I'm really anxious to see what it does. It might have almost the same potential as my First/SLP system with out all the work involved with the runners. There is still a lot of work to be done on the intake manifold itself to open up the runners to where we want them and fixing the transition into the head.

 

surprised no manufacturer has tried to improve this... i bet there is some money to be had with a proper TPI intake base, unlike the many copies of the same thing that are out there. Hats off to you guys.. that realy is sweet. A intake that has proper cross section area all the while being able to custom tune runner length to fit your needs by some siamesing

you have stumbled onto something

 

I'm kinda of anxious to see what BBK has done. From what I have read the runners might be of a size to provide good airflow to most motors. It just remains to be seen as what they have done with the Intake manifold itself. Hopefully they have designed it so that it can readily be opened up.

 

I agree the super ram is a P.I.T.A to work on. Mine is ported by a local machine shop, running stock cast l98 heads hogged out on my 355 setup running 12.8 on street tires. Interested to see how this thread turns out as I thinking of upgrading to afr 195 heads. It pulls hard to 5200 rpm where I shift at. Flat as a pancake and falls on its face after that. I would like see more info on the new BBK intake"turtle ram" due out later this year!