ummmm .... if EBL was self tuning:

(a) Why would he have needed to have it tuned by "the man himself"

(b) Why is Gunny having problems now?

 

I like the look of the fast xfi system with the 4 injectors into the sides of the throttle body with its self tuning capabilities should work.

 

I've looked all over their site, and I've looked all over Holley's site, and I still don't understand exactly how those self-tuning systems tune themselves.

 

I have heard and read all good things about that system. Not sure what the cost is?

I bet the vast majotrity of purchasers are formerly carbed and want EFI control of fueling without some of the tuning hassles that often occur. No control over spark but I could live with that.

EBL is self "learning". Learn VE is creation of a "corrected" .bin in closed loop. It still needs hands on tweeking for other areas of tune. EBL also supports wide band use and can "learn" the WOT A/F.

 

I'm aware of that. Pretty sure that's what JPrevost contributed.

However, I would direct you back to OP's original posting, where he made one thing clear: "I HATE TUNING"

Of the supposedly "self-tuning systems being discussed, EBL is absolutely the system requiring the most tuning. I agree with you that the aftermarket systems being discussed don't offer spark control, but what they do offer is timing control using a distributor, technology that has been working successfully in small block Chevy's for 70 years. It's nowhere near as precise as what a well-tuned EBL can offer, but it is simple and essentially bulletproof.

If EBL could self-tune to the point that it could work properly at the level of tuning Gunny is looking to invest, then why isn't it already? He's looking for simplicity, and you're advocating that he change everything except the component that requres the tuning, the thing he doesn't want to do. If he follows your advice, he has to start the tuning process all over again.

Look, I'm not badmouthing EBL, I think it's pretty awesome, and if you'll look at my earlier posts, you'll see I've suggested he work with what he has a bit more (including EBL) before he starts fresh with another system.

By the bye, I don't understand where your hardon for HSR comes from. Everything else being equal, I don't see any evidence of standard EFI single-plane intakes outperforming HSR, and the new Accel "self-tuning" software for all their EFI systems looks pretty good.

I'm not recommending HSR, if he's going to change to something else, my recommendation is getting away from SD altogether (which is what requires almost all of the tuning) and going with Mass-Flo EFI.

Fuel Tables? Fuggedaboudit

 

If you're going top spend a couple of thousand bucks to "upgrade" your EFI, why would you stick with an inherently inefficient design?

 

i think the kit with fuel pump is like 2k

 

Not sure if there is any. If I had to wager I would think a VictorJr will out flow SR. I prefer the miniram due to its simplicty and low profile. I think MR flows same as SR? We can agree on that...

 

It's not just about how much air it flows, it's how it flows the air.

Years ago, there was an awesome TPI shootout in Super Rod Magazine. Used one engine, tested just about everything.

MR to HSR:
HSR (501hp, 493lb-ft)
MR (505hp, 471lb-ft)

While MR made 4 more hp, HSR made 22 more lb-ft torque. Not only that, but the HSR made more HP than the MR until 5800 rpm, and torque curve on the HSR was amazing, in my opinion making the HSR clearly a better choice.

http://xtremecarzone.com.au/index.php?showtopic=386

Compare the HP and Torque curves of the MR and the HSR. In a street-driven 3rd Gen, for example, which do you think would turn a faster 1/4 mile? A faster road course time? A faster autocross time? Be more fun to drive?

And your statement about a Victor JR versus a HSR? Again, it's not about flow, it's how it flows, but you understand the HSR is nothing but a dual-quad tunnel ram base with a different plenum, don't you? I mean literally, that is what it is. A bigass plenum, with big, long straight runners. That's why it makes really big torque, and really big HP. I don't think a Victor JE would come close. Maybe more peak HP, but nowhere near the torque, and better HP only in the upper rpm band.

It's silly to get hung up on HP, especially peak HP. Torque is what moves you down the road. That's why stock 245 hp TPI cars run low 14s.

There used to be a guy in here named Mike Crews. He had a Camaro with a Vortec Headed 383 TPI. I'm pretty sure all he had was a ported base, AS&M Siamesed runners and a bigger throttle body. I'm not sure if the heads were even ported. Maybe they were. If you do a search, you'll find a thread about his car. For a long time, it was the longest thread on TGO. It was a school on what a thoughtful, careful, meticulous guy can do with a well-thought out combination. I persoanlly saw him drive that car from Augusta GA to Atlanta Ga in the Summer heat, cool the car off for a couple of hours while he sat around and BSed with the other Third Gen Nationals guys, let a few lbs of air out of the back tires, pull it up to the line, stick it in "D", and crank off a 12.48, letting the transmission shift itself.

With a TPI.

Oh, and for all you guys who insist on putting 3.73s on street cars? With 3.23 gears.

Forget MR, Forget HSR, in my opinion, the best induction for a street FI car is FIRST. Ithas all the advantages of GM's Tuned Port design, and it flows enough air to continue making power over 5,000 rpm. I believe if they'd had a FIRST in this test, they'd have made close to 500 HP with it, the best torque of all, and most importantly, the best torque and HP curves of all.

There's a reason GM went back to long, curved runners with the LS engines after they got away from them with the LT1. There's a reason Ford, Mopar, and every Japanese and European V8 manufacturer is using long, curved runners, too.

 

Depends on motor. FIRST is optimally sized for a 383 and uses the FAST EZ EFI self tuning. Very easy. What do you have currently? An L98 or LB9? If you have a stock LB9 or L98, you can always just order a tune from pcmforless.com for about $200.00.

 

I have a Fast XFI 2.0 on mine. The way it works is you setup the system, do a target A/F ratio and setup the timing curve. After that you let the car idle and dial in the a/f, its REALLY easy because it does it in real time. I have a 224/230* cam and it idles at 950 RPM's with AC on.

Since you NEVER want the car in closed loop operation during WOT or idle, you slowly cruise your car around and it will adjust the VE table according to your target A/F ratio.

Pro's, its a VERY flexable and capable unit. From a stock TPI to a 2000+ HP turbo BBC can be done with the same box. It will control EGR and other things, just might take a little creativity.

Downside, its expensive as a sumbitch. I think retail is $2000. Fairly certain it wont work with a stock TBI system. It wont control a 4L60E without a standalone box. The O2 sensor is married to the box, if you need one (like I do) its about $300.

I know its not what you asked, but IMO, by time you spend the money for a standalone, misc parts needed for install, you might be at $3500-$4000. Now, Im talking going from TBI to MPFI.

Seriously, go LS1. You can pick up a LS1/4L60E setup for about $1000 cheaper than a LS1/T56 setup, you can retain alot of the emissions stuff, you get a VERY CAPABLE and supported factory EFI setup, better mileage, more power from a milder setup, a MAF system that can adjust slight variances. The swap is very documented and at this point, depending on how much you want to spend, bolt in and plug and play.

If you decide to keep your setup, get rid of that cam. If you want something mild, go with something in the 218/224 range. If you want a balance of both worlds, 224/230. Something nasty? 230+ But from 224+ its going to require some effort to get it to idle and you'll have to mess with the PE tables.

Also, change the valvesprings to match the cam profile. Dead valvesprings can cause the car to fall on its face badly.