I've painted my '86 a few times. When I bought her she was charcoal grey metallic.. or at least supposed to be. The paint was so oxidized it resembled a horrible primer job.. so I had absolutely nothing to lose painting her . Anyway, the paint jobs have just been learner jobs with rattlecan, incomplete prep work, etc.. and I've learned alot.

Pretty soon here I'm stripping her down for real body work. The latest rattle can job is starting to lose adhesion and someone tossed me a decent compressor and I plan to use it.. blah blah... could go on for hours here, I'll spare you guys and get to the questions.

On the note of stripes. I've run into nasty problems putting mine on and having them look professional. Primarily pulling my basecoat off the car with the masking tape, and horribly thick edges on the stripes (Both of which I assume I could blame on the rattle can, but I'd like to make sure) Was using 3M Auto masking tape available from walmart and duplicolor cans.. any advice?

Also, anyone have good advice for getting stripes 100% perfectly straight and aligned?

Another question of interest (after glancing at the pic of my v1.1 paint job). Flex agents for the bumpers. How do you guys get around the bumper cracking and adhesion problems?

Version 1.1 (we won't even delve into V1.0, no clear, HORRIBLE stripes). This picture taken the day I started sanding her back down.. about a year and a half after the paint was shot.


Version 2.0 (A.K.A the "3 days after I decided black cars are too hot in AZ" job)

 

What's wrong with black cars???

 

When you buy some real paint, you must read and follow the Tech Sheets. If your using PPG Omni paint, "tape" time is usually 45 minutes. That means you have to wait at least 45 minutes before you can lay any tape down. If the paint is peeling off when removing the tape, then you are either:

Using the wrong tape,
Improper prep work,
Poor paint technique
or a combination of them.

As far as the "thick edge", part of that might be from laying too much base coat. You only need to spay enough base coat to acheive "hiding". That usually means two coats. If you still have somewhat of a "thick edge" you can wet-sand it down some, but it doesn't have to be perfect, when you spray the Clear Coat, alot of that "edge" will dissapear.

 

To add to what Bernard said, when you spray the clear, spray an extra coat. Wait a few days for it to dry and then wetsand and buff the clear. That will get rid of the edge between the stripes and base coat.

Kat

 

BTT

Come on, I know there's some paint experts out there with pointers.

 

You can't just keep spraying a car with spray paint. It always peels off no matter how much prep work and real paint (polyurethane) won't stick to it so you'll have to sand ALL of it off if you ever do it right. Stripes are best put on as decals, like the Heritage Stripe package autografics.com sells for $99. You spray water on before applying them so you can move them around and get them perfectly straight before they adhere for good.

 

Well.. thanks for your useless response, DJ..

1: Did I say I was using spray paint again? I do believe I said "Someone tossed me a compressor" ... this kinda leads to the thought of real paint, unless I'm cutting rattle cans open to put them in a real gun.

2: I said I was taking her down for real body work.. so I'm not too worried about it not sticking to the rattle can.. I'm fully aware of rattle can's adhesion difficulties.

3: No way in hell am I doing decal stripes.. In case you didn't notice, my stripes don't look anything like the heratige kit.

You need to read the posts rather than just starting to cut in the first thing you see.. I was explaining background, pointing out that I've gathered a pretty good deal of paint experience. I was NOT asking for input on rattle can or cheap decals. I'd just like a little last advice based on real experience (i.e. from someone who's worked in a body shop) before I go dumping $1000 into materials. I don't plan on painting her again for a long time after she's done and would like her to be as close to perfect as I can get her, and I'd like her to stay that way.

As for the "real paint", this concept is not limited to polyurethane. Enamel and Lacquer are perfectly good options depending on what you're looking for. The rattle can IS real paint, a reduced automotive lacquer, however it's a mass-produced low quality lacquer with a totally inadequate delivery system.

Now.. would anyone who knows what they're talking about like to respond? Please? Especially on the bumper part...

 

But how could you ever consider putting spray paint on a car, even if the original paint looks horrible, period? That's like pouring acid on someone with eczema. Auto painting should be left to those with I-CAR certifications. Stripes down the whole length of the car look like you lost half of it in a divorce settlement and got left with the passenger's side.

 

Here are your options..

1: give me $3000 US for a real paint job so I can take it to a certified professional.

2: offer some useful info instead of your opinions on my work.

3: get the hell off my thread

4: prove that you're nothing more than a troll

I can only show you the door.. you must open it.. (take the blue pill)

 

I just bought a book on automotive paint, i'm not gonna BS anyone and say i read the thread, but if you want me to scan you some sectionsto read, PM me or post here what topics specificly you need (i.e. painting flexible bumper parts, masking, etc.) and i'll be more than glad to scan you a few chapters from the book and email them to ya :-)

 

Maybe if you didn't hang out with friends at the city park where you talk cars and **** off the local cops, you'd get a college education and a decent job so you could afford a body shop paint job.

 

DJSyclone, i'm with Smurf...leave the freakin thread. Your not adding anything to it, your being a *****....Maybe Smurf has a college education and a great job but just has other stuff he would rather spend or save the money for? Perhapps a house? family? Poor guy came here looking for some help for painting his car himself, your just being a ***** and wasting everyones time....maybe you should be the one to get a college education and get a freakin job so you dont have so much time to be an A-Hole to people who are asking good questions....I dont know what your other posts are like, but if theyre like this, i feel very sorry for ya. If this thread gets closed, Smurf, PM me and i'll get ya any info i can get from this book. Its really a good book and i'm more than happy to help ya out.

 

Someone 21 years old with two Camaro's doesn't have their priorities set on their house and family. I'm a certified network engineer, I've paid my dues and earned the right to be an A-hole from time to time.

 

Well why are you trying to discourage him from doing the work himself? Is it that your jeleous that you dont have the desire or the time and patients or sense of adventure to try and do something yourself? I dunno man....

 

I give up. I was just upset when he called my post useless. Honestly I tried touching up a couple spots on my car when I first got it, and no matter what I did it didn't exactly match, so I went crazy with the spray cans and ended up painting the whole thing. When I started taking the car to body shops begging them to fix it they all gave me a hard time about having spray painted the car and said it wasn't worth their time to fix it, it would hold up their shop lines. I finally found one shop that was willing to completely strip the paint because their business slowed up and they had it for a week, but they still told me I messed the car up. When I arrived to pick it up they told me they had painted it Mary Kay Pink because anything was better than when I screwed it up with the spray paint. They weren't serious but it really bothered me the way that went.

 

i've seen quite a few nice rattlecan jobs on this board......just cause it cost ya 98 cents at Wal Mart doesnt mean it has to turn out ****ty.....if you work with spray paint long enough i'm sure you can pretty much work around every disadvantage that it has and make a car look awsome......so just dont assume that spray paint is crappy

 

Don't get me wrong.. I won't touch my V8 with a rattle can.. even with the little dings in the paint from rocks, doors, etc for the past 6 years, the clear is good and I won't even *think* of it.. but the V6 seriously looked like a *bad* primer job, so no matter what I did and how bad it turned out, I could always sand it down and give it a *good* primer job. Honestly, very little of the paint has adhesion issues.. after over 2 years it's flaking off in areas where it was sprayed too thick to begin with and there was horribly inadequate prep work performed.. any paint won't last in the conditions I'm giving this stuff.. it flakes off the bumpers like no tomorrow, though, hence my need for an answer to that prob.

 

speedingpenguin, thanks for your offer on the book.. I recently spent a few hours reading a few DIY and professional auto paint books, and all I learned is that I know what I'm doing but lack the tools to do it right. Go figure

 

Hey Tech Smurf, which car are you bringing to the gathering?

 

Hey man, all I can say is that you are getting better at it so keep doing your own paintjobs. I enjoy working on anything related to my car, i would paint it if i had the skill and tools.

 

GTA: Bringing the '88 Daily Driver (no stripes), The '86 is down pending continued work on the turbo system.. building a new passenger side exhaust manifold from scratch. No mill access at the moment, so I can't finish the flange, so she won't be ready.

 

Cool, I'll see ya then!

 

With automotive base/clear systems, you shouldn't have the same problem with the stripes, esp if you're using "good" masking tape like the 3M. I'd base the car, then lay out the stripe pattern (the tech sheet for the paint will tell you how long you have to wait) with 3M fineline tape and then mask off /bag the rest of the car to prevent overspray. I prefer masking paper over the plastic sheeting, at least close to your work, since the air pressure can blow overspray off the plastic and ruin your work. As someone already mentioned, two light coats should be plenty; you just want to insure good coverage. Once the paint has flashed (again, check the instructions...time depends on the paint system, conditions, booth vs garage or outside, etc), remove your masking materials, remask where necessary, and clear the whole car. Two-three coats should give you plenty for hiding the stripe edges and cutting/buffing later.
Aligning stripes takes a good eye and some measuring...be patient on this part, since if you screw it up the job is ruined, no matter how well you apply the paint.
Depending on the paint system you use, flex agent will have to be mixed into the clear and, possibly, the primer, too. Basecoats typically don't get flex (at least not in DuPont's system), since their mils (thickness) are usually insignificant.

 

Alright.. so I can blame the majority of the paint step on the materials. Yay =)

No sure-fire way to do stripes.. damn. Oh well. Time to start drawing up a mathematical template and a couple alignment cards for the majority of the car, I guess.. the way I've been laying them on this car, they kinda do their own flowing on the outside edge as far as the hood and nose are concerned, so eye it is.. rest of the car is the widest point at the trailing edge of the hood, and that I can measure out =)

On the flex agent: Different clear mixes for the body and plastic, then? No problem, since I'd be pulling the nose and rear cover anyway..

Still not sure just how far I'm going to dismantle her, but I don't want her to look like crap with the line between the nose and fender chipping. Bastards who painted my '88 back in '97 long before I bought her did a really half-assed job of some of the prep work, and I can see what's ahead of me.. lovely things like if I were to pressure wash my engine bay, it would be red within about 15 seconds. 90% of the underhood paint lost adhesion completely long ago and flakes off from a 5 mph gust of wind. On the other hand, with the reputation of this body shop, I'm amazed they painted the engine bay at all

 

While I don't think that the flex agent would actually hurt anything if you sprayed the whole car with it (assuming the covers are on), what I usually do is paint the bumper covers and ground effects off the car. That way, I can spray the regular clear onto the body, then mix in the flex to do the soft parts. Most flex agents are mixed as a small percentage, so its easy to go back and add it to the clear you have already mixed. On some cars, like 4th gens, I'd probably just flex the whole car, since the only exterior steel is the quarter panels.

 

TechSmurf,
As you can tell by the relies to your question auto painting is one of the last secrets the industry don't want us to know. I can tell you that applying the base coat clear coat system can be done by a third grader. I bought a book called Paint & Body by HP Books on E-bay for $10.00 and it is great, tells it all. If you have any specific questions e-mail me and I will do my best to answer them. To answer one of your questions. You can put a few drops of an additive into the paint to make it flexible, this is also recommended for the primer on plastics or rubber pieces. Be careful when you purchase your paint. A good paint supply store will be very helpful or take your money. You should be able to buy all your colors and clear coats for just a few bucks under $300.00. Some crooks will pick up on the fact that you are a novice painter and sell you a very expensive paint for $600+ dollars. This is ok if your trying to achieve show quality. If the salesman is honest he will also be able to tell you how to lay the product down and how to mix it. Pay attention to the thinner. If it is hot out and you use a fast dry thinner your in trouble, same if it's cold and you use a slow dry. I like just a good old medium. Once you are ready to shoot, the most important thing is making sure your gun is set up properly, air pressure, feed, and the pattern is right. I started out with the duplicolor and have moved up basically the same you did. The reason body men get on your case about spray cans is cause if properly layed it looks good and they don't get paid. I prefer taking a car to the bare metal and applying a good self etching primer so it really don't matter what kind of paint a person has put on in the past. Best of luck and remember if it looks better then before you started then you did a good job.

 

I actually respected your post untill I got to that part. Sure, anybody can polish a turd and make it nice and shiney, but when its all said and done, its still a turd. "Rattle-can" paint is very unreliable. Its what people use to take cars to the auction, not for a long term repair.

 

You make it sound like a conspiracy or something; the how-to info is out there for any and all to see. The majority of the paint and body industry is geared towards collision work, so there is no real incentive to keep a hobbyist from knowing how to do something himself. They'd rather do business with an insurance company repairing some everyday car that no one cares about; more money, less hassle. BTW painting base/clear systems isn't terribly difficult in theory, but there can and will be problems that a novice might not know how to fix. That is where experience comes in. No book is a substitute for time spraying cars. I'd highly recommend watching a professional painter (a good one) to help develop your own technique.Thats what I did. Also, the area that seperates the average or worse jobs from the show finishes has more to do with bodywork and prep than anything else...take your time, don't cut corners, and you can do a nice job yourself.
While you can spend as little as $300, a few extra bucks spent on a good catalyzed primer and a higher-grade clearcoat will be money well spent. I use mostly DuPont and Spies-Hecker products myself, which are expensive, but I have always been very pleased with the results.

Body men get on your case about using spray cans because there's no telling what the "real" paint used over it will do to it...it might be ok, or it might lift, you never know. Duplicolor and others are not a catalyzed paint, and they're relatively unstable. The body man doesn't like the stuff because he has to sand or strip it off, rather than risk doing the job over again later. Spray cans are fine for small parts, but not for body surfaces (temporarily maybe, as long as you strip it off later). Besides, by the time you buy enough spray cans to paint a car you could have bought real paint.

 

Sorry, I didn't intend to touch any nerves. I was just trying to encourage the man to go for it and paint the car himself. It's not rocket science and anyone who applies themself can do it. I by the way have put down some duplicolor (rattle can) on my front clip that you can't tell the difference from the cup gun paint. And it usually lasts about 2 years in the Texas sun. Once again, sorry I didn't want to offend anyone.

 

No offense taken, or anything like that...sorry if I came off harsh in my reply. I'm trying to encourage him to do it himself too, and get the best job possible.

BTW, some of the paint companies are experimenting with catalyzed primer and clearcoats in spray cans (the components are seperate till you press a button on the bottom of the can, then the components mix). This, to me, is the main problem with conventional spray cans...no way to use a good quality catalyzed primer or clear. Spies-Hecker for one has been doing some testing , and it looks like the only drawback is the fact that pot life of the paint is only a couple hours tops after the components mix. Still, it could be a good way for DIY types without compressors to get a good finish that will last. Its should also be better in confined areas such as trunks and in engine compartments, since there is no air hose to get in the way.

 

Here is a suggestion that might help with the stripes but then again it might not. Maybe try using a level. I think maybe it would work but dont take my word on it ive never done it so you could try it if you wanted to.