First, I want to say that my home-made mild-tempered stainless-steel bolt-on "L" brackets seem to be holding up. They are replacing the top mounts of the rear shocks; as the sheet metal is busted where the shock rubbers reside.

Now, the question:
My A.C. suffers if the car is not moving [even 5 m.p.h. would do], so I mounted a 12" pancake fan in front of the A.C. condenser. The fan works with a horn relay that feeds off the battery, through a fuse, when the A.C. is running.There is a pair of crossed bars mounted to the front of the sheet metal enclosure that contains the condenser and radiator. It was in the way, and had to go. If necessary, then perhaps I can figure out a method to put them back, using nuts, bolts, and spacers. Maybe.
What are these bars for, and is it so terrible to leave them in the basement, next to the smog pump? The sheet metal enclosure is factory-welded to the box frames. Looks like the bars are there to catch the enclosure, if the welds break, as the bar tops are fastened elsewhere. What do you think?

Thanks

Seth

 

Seriously, post up some pic's to let people know what you are referring to.

 

I feel for you, but you need to use your imagination, or own a 1983 'Bird.
I have plenty of film cameras, and would not trade any for a digital. I would not get rid of my turntable for a C.D. player, either. As good as digital technology might get, some day, it will never hold a candle to analog, whether it be audio or video.
Digital is only superior in convenience (such as giving me the ability to post pics here).

Seth

 

You are trapped in the past my retro friend.

But guys like you are the reason we still have classics on the road, so I can't complain.

 

"Trapped", because I am one of those who recognize that

'new & improved'

generally is nothing more than

'cheaper-to-manufacture & more profitable', 'because the public will believe anything'.

When you are in Brooklyn, I'll spin some vinyl candy for your ears.
You will then seriously wonder how so many people have been duped by digital's false promises of 'perfect sound forever', or 'perfect video forever'.

Seth

 

Groovy man,outta sight,make love not war.I got rid of my 3 dog night posters years ago,but i still have my LPs.8 tracks forever!Last pair of bell bottoms i wore was in 79 .Oh & the cross bars.My 84 camaro has them.They dont do much though,i think.They reinforce that open space in front of the radiator probably.The only time i notice they were there was when i close the door,they would rattle.So i zip tied the center cross.peace man & flower power,keep on truckin.

 

i had a 91 camaro and i just took the things off and it never seemed to hurt anything, course i also had to removew three-quarters of the lower radiator support and it didnt do anything either so yeah

 

Thank you.

Where did I put that Lava lamp?
Oh, this is where that Roach clip was.
Pass the rolling paper.

BellBottoms I can do without, but I was very serious about how I feel about analog vs digital. I will not sacrifice quality for the sake of convenience. I will not go digital, because 'it is the thing to do'.

The rods stay in the basement.

Seth

 

I was joking on the bell bottoms.CCR rules.

 

Do you watch movies? Television? All digitally edited. May even start out as analog but transfers to digital in the end. You're typing on a digital machine. You're in the digital age, there's no escape.

No idea what you're talking about in terms of bars, however. Sorry.

 

I remember my pair of ORANGE bell-bottoms well.
I saw what is left of C.C.R. last summer. Wonderful.
What I really want to see, is Carlos Santana in concert. His records get lots of play in my home.

As far as T.V. goes, several years ago, I called my PBS station to ask a tech why the certain broadcasts have degraded sound, and occasionally degraded picture. His answer was that much of the material arrives at the station in digital form.

This technology is utter crap, but very few give a damn.

I can't listen to the radio any more, because it sounds nothing like it used to. Horrible fidelity, and horrible, repetitive cuts.
Recordings of familliar artists, played from digital source, do not quite sound as I remember. The timbre of the voice changes with digital. And there is far more general distortion, as well. Thank goodness for a jazz station across the Hudson that still occasionally spins vinyl.

And, yes, I know that the computer is digital; but I do not use it for music or video.

Seth

 

Pretty much all have them. They seem to only function as a lame attempt to beef up the opening. Real purpose... who knows ?
Kind of like how some cars have a brace spotted on the frame rail connecting to the top of the strut tower (engine bay), left, right, both or sometimes none.

'Rods'...(it's my camaro but, firebirds have the exact thing)..

 

And before anyone asks.. here's the brace I mentioned... (only on the pass side on my 'bird)...

 

Thanks for the photo.
I also have the one brace on the right. This is to save assembly costs, as we make more right turns than left turns.
You seem to have enough room for a fan, w/o removing the rods. Mine were nearly against the condenser.
BTW, consider straightening those condenser fins.
Also, you have a stiffening bracket on the bottom of the housing.
Guess that I have a Friday car, and you have a Tuesday car.

Seth

 

N/p.... I think those braces were more of an alignment thing (while the chassis was being assembled) than cost as my old 84 had one on the drivers side only.

It's still pretty tight up there... I'm not too sure if one would fit our not.... would definately be close.

Not sure if you mean the little 'Y' part but, that's the brace for the nose/hood latch (see below). The camaro hasd a different brace than the firebird due to the nose design differences. The 'bird should have a triangular brace,


Talk to the raccoon I hit last week

Brace.. looking through the opening for the 2ndary safety latch hole.

 

oops...

 

Now I understand. You Camaro; me Firebird.
Also, I am wondering if other 'birds have a tear on the platform that holds the hood lock. Mine is torn near the right-hand bolt, because there is a factory hole next to it that weakens it. Time to put a little backer plate under it.

Seth

 

Have you ever seen anything in HDTV? Digital. Every pixel.

meh, i dont have those bars... lol

 

Yes, and I am very underwhelmed. The only great thing is the lack of static in the digital picture, because analog TV sends the picture information on the on A.M. band, which is obviously prone to static.

Seth
Forever Analog

 

The reason digital sounds like crap is because it takes a smooth wave that has every possible sound frequency in it and turns it into steps. They only have as many steps as the average human ear can hear, however it is still noticable. Once we get storage/compressions technology high enough you will start seeing some better quality digital media. I do not really notice the difference really, mainly cuz I never listened to vynals since I was born in the 80s and because I listed to alot of loud music so I don't hear to well. People talking sounds like mumbling half the time to me.

Ignorence is bliss

 

That's not mumbling, it's digital.

Damn, you're young. I will be 50 in two years; where did those decades go??????????

The only purpose that digital serves in my life, is to create a constant annoyance. Since the only tangable aspect of the music is the sound, it needs to be as close as possible to original. Why f*** it up with zeros and ones? If digital needs to be more refined, to create that analog-like sound, then why not just stick with analog? I still cannot believe that so few care.

Digital video is just as sad a joke. People are sheep.

Seth
Forever Analog

 

Youve got a whole protest going on LOL!

 

Yeah, all new technologies, high def and such are all crap and worthless in every right.

You seem pretty preachy about this. If I might ask, what do you base your digital experience off of? Just cds, radio and tv?

 

The digital technologies have their place, as most people just don't know any better.

I have never heard a CD or SACD, or a player that is worth a damn.

I have heard the IPod sounds. Aweful.
I have done a side-by-side of name-brand DVD player vs really good VCR tape and player. The tape won.

Satelite radio sounds really bad. Familliar artists do not even sound as they once did in analog.

FM radio used to rule, when it came to fidelity. Now they play the same few digital cuts over and over again.

A good reel-to-reel tape deck or turntable demolishes any digital source. How can it not, as this older technology does not disassemble the sound, and then try to reassemble it later?

If Phillips [the inventor of the CD] told you to jump off a tower, you would do just that, right? They told you that the CD is superior, and you believed it.

I stand by these ideals.

Seth

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/bbs.html


http://65.219.61.150/forums/

 

or, a thought.. maybe i dont give a crap if it sounds identical... can I skip to song 12 in a couple seconds with my tape deck? no, i cant

just the same as I dont give a crap if a digital camera produces the exact quality as a film camera.. can I take a pic and dl it right onto my pc and send it out or print it with my film camera? no.. i cant

do you ever have some kind of point to your arguments?
why am i even particpating in this...

 

Why is anyone ?
None of this pointless digital analog banter b.s. has anything to do with the original question he asked.

 

Leave it to either of you, to throw a monkey wrench into this friendly discussion.

More to the point, you have just proven my arguement. You do not give a crap about the quality of reproduction; only the convenience.

So, I guess I need to thank you.

Seth

 

Sounds to me like you're just blindly following what's convenient for you. Regular CDs and regular DVDs doo sound like crap. The digital processing out for higher quality systems (ac3, etc) are far superior than vinyl. Besides, you're going to hear whatever you want to hear. Regardless of whether it's true or not. Besides the quality of the sounds has a large part to do with the speaker setup it comes out of.

Most Ipod sounds do suck, because they're quality is so low. Even a normal CD runs thousands of KB/s while ipods usually pump out 192kb/s at the higher end of normal through crappy earbud headphones.

It's interesting to have a convorsation with someone of a completely different opinion.


Oh yeah, and to stay on topic. I pulled those X-braces off my old bird (and even that workbench supper going up to the hood latch) and never had a problem.

 

Durh. Of course it would with such a biased outlook. Seems like you're just not giving it a chance, and like Michael Jackson would say, "...that's just ignorance!"

 

I cant notice the difference of sound quality
between them.

With records you will get cracks and pops
and scratches.

The thing I miss is the Record Covers !

Cds suck big time in that department.

I miss my 89 celica gts.

 

Oh, Michael Jackson. My hero.
True, only because I bought a HIStory album on vinyl, for speculation. Never unwrapped it.
Just sold it for $500 plus shipping. That gives me a $475 profit.
Thanks, Michael.

Seth

 

Well i will start off with the topic. Thos bars are to keep the radiator support square. If you are assembling the nose back to the car these can be tweaked to help line up the screws and bolts. You can probably get away without them, but if you have a nicer paint job I would not risk it.

As far as analog goes. If you have the space and the ability to store that material without degredation, than more power to you. Also most of the equipment you are going to use to process that precious analog info has some sort of digital video or sound processing components to it. If you are using the old stuff for get it the analog components that are still around have too much degredation to give you a high level of fidelity.

Also inless you have some serious money to build or buy rare components, you are not going to be able to reproduce a 3D sound stage with analog. I have listened back to back with real to real, vinal and SACD. I am picky, but a good SACD or DVDA with a heavy amplifier behind it and good speakers will blow most peoples socks off.

Last but not least EFI! I remeber no time in the past when you could drive around in 600HP car with air conditioning, while idling through a parking lot at 15 MPH!

 

Dave,

The bars- thank you.

It appears that you know absolutely about vintage Hi-Fi sound.
My stereo has a wonderfully wide and real soundstage. Forty vintage Fisher tube watts per channel. Power rating has zero to do with soundstage. Who has told you otherwise? I stay away from digitally processed material as much as possible, as it produces inferior results.
Distortion? There is ten times more with digital. I, too, have compared. Why don't you tell me how an old Fisher, McIntosh, H.K., Sherwood, H.H. Scott amp pales in comparison to your new, mass-produced stuff.
My Fisher shows less than .01% distortion, on the scope. Low enough?
Degredation? Tapes will, records will not. CD media degrades too.
And, if you are going to discuss/ argue these points, then at least spell [reel to reel and vinyl] properly, as this example shows.

Also, are you probably one of those who thinks Bose is the best.
Compare them to Martin Logan, Magnepan, or any real Hi-Fi speaker.

Let's end this before the moderator does it for us.

Seth
Forever Analog

 

All I have to say is...

 

Care to tell me what you are attempting to say with this cryptic cartoon?

Seth

 

Have you ever heard of the show South Park? If you haven’t, I stoutly recommend you watch it. That cartoon is alluding to how you "owned" Dave with your enduring quarrel. It is no more than a joke and no less than bewildering.

And by the way, this is a forum. This is not a business letter or presidential speech. Grammatical usages and spelling errors are both by and large disregarded. Pretend a forum is merely a chronicle of an instant message converse uploaded online for all to observe.

Care to tell me what you are attempting to say?

 

I agree this is the wrong forum for an audio discussion. And no Bose is not my favorite brand infact I am running a HK 310 as a preamp for my soundcraftsmen amplifiers with high current rail switching power supplies. My music comes through loud and clear through on 6 Acoustic Energy MKII's. I am sorry for the mispelling, I have to type and think fast because I really do not want any one to see me typing on a message board in the office.

As for sound stage I was refering to the fact that the older tube amps and preprocessors do not have the capability to process multi channel recordings and use more than two channels. And notice I did not say the newer stuff would blow the older stuff away, I said it would blow MOST peopley. CD degredation I am not aware of. If the the binary information makes its way to the processor than the music comes out the other side. As far as I know there is no gray area. I totally agree CD's do not have anything on vinyl, but some of the new HD formats with the RIGHT format prcessing capability (IE Denon) may have something.

I am glad I could help. I really would like to carry on this DEBATE, but you are probably right this thread will be closed, But really that should be OK. You have your answer and those to follow will be able to use SOME of this info. Do you frequent any audio boards maybe we can take this discussion up there.

 

Who needs all these New Fangled Contraptions...why them funny talking boxes and those uppity Picture Tube thingies!! Why in my day we watch Bugs fly around..now thats Quality Entertainment!!


Forever the Argument of Old vs New

 

i can just picture his computer.....or did they use to call them typewriters back in the day?????

 

Dave,

WWW.AudioAsylum.com (audioAsylum)

http://65.219.61.150/forums/ (audiokarma)

I belong to both, and some others, as well.

Seth

 

NoTransistors I hope there are no hard feelings. i am not trying to bust anyone here, I am personally into the whole audio thing myself as being a dreaded EE, so I truly found the discussion interesting

 

Seriously no help here guys. You don't have to boast your imature idiocy here