cdoyle

Hi,

Ive been wanting to convert my 84 Camaro interior to a 92 style. I have the whole dash board, and now just need the heater box, so I can use the 92 style vacuum controls.

My 84 does not have AC, so when looking for a heaterbox. Is a non AC box from a 92 my only option. Or is there a way to make a heaterbox with AC work on my car?

Thanks
Chris.

cdoyle

Anyone?

Psycho_91Camaro

you'll need to get the whole set up of a camaro with AC. The AC BOX and the other part that goes with it.. theres 2 parts.

cdoyle

What's the other part called that I need?

Anyone know how hard it is to do a swap like this? My current system is cable driven.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

you can use the entire A/C diverter box (the plastic part inside the car behind the dash) from a later car and use the metal non-ac box inside the engine compartment. This way, you won't have A/C but you can use the vacume controlled hvac controller panel form the 92 dash.

cdoyle

Hi,

So would that mean I could keep my existing box that is in the engine compartment? All I would need to buy is the 'diverter box' is that the real name of it? I'll start looking for that.

Everything would hook up OK. Where does the vacuum come from? Does the box create it?


Thanks for your help.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

the vacuum comes off of the intake, so you will have to find a similar diameter vacuum line already in place and use a t-connector to splice into it. What you will want to get is the a/c version of the diverter box, the a/c version of the controls, and the complete wiring harness the comes off of the controls. The wiring harness passes through a hole in the firewall just to the passenger side of the tranny tunnel and connects to the blower motor and the resistors mounted on the a/c heater box on the engine side of the firewall.

Here's a little complication when wiring: The a/c version of the heater controls is set for 4 blower motor speeds. The non a/c blower motor only has 3 speeds. You will want to figure out which wires go to which speed and set your 3rd and 4th speed from your controls to both run the blower motor at the 3rd speed setting. Or you can not connect the 4th setting and remember not to use it. That's a minor detail though. Everything will bolt up properly and pretty much plug right in.

cdoyle

thanks for replying.

I'm a little confused to why I need to get the A/C version? If my car is non A/C to start with, if I could find it. Couldn't I use the non A/C version of the 90-92 diverter box?

Wouldn't that make wiring easier too? Since my car is non A/C and I already have a non A/C 90-92 style control?

I guess I'm just a little confused to that part.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

i thought you wanted to use the A/C version of the heater controls from a 91 camaro on your 84 that doesn't have A/C. I believe that all a/c equipped 3rd gens have a vacuum controlled diverter box and all non-ac equipped 3rd gens have a mechanically controlled diverter box. As long as your controlls and diverter box are both vacuum controlled or both mechanically controlled, you can use them with any dash shell and center console you want. Maybe you can more specifically state what you desire to have in your car because now i'm kinda confused

cdoyle

I'm sorry didn't mean to confuse you. When I originally started this post, I was looking at a heaterbox for an 90 A/C equipped car on ebay, and wasn't sure if it would work.

But since it looks like I don't need to actually swap out the entire heaterbox, but just the diverter. If I can find a non A/C version, then I'll do that if it's possible. That way I can use the non A/C 92 style contol I bought (it is vacuum)

Plus I would think the wiring would be eaiser since they would match up.

sorry for the confusion, your replies have been very helpful!
I'm relieved I don't have to remove the entire heaterbox now!!

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

that's interesting that the non-ac controls from a 92 use vacuum lines. I wonder if they made the vacuum controlled diverter box from a/c cars also work with non-ac controllers in later years. If so, it'll be easy for you to get a diverter box out of any later car. Oh and you're welcome, I tried to give you all the info i have about it. Good luck completing your project.

cdoyle

Ya, when I first bought the control I didn't even realize it was vacuum. Was going to install it, and got my old one out, and then go to hook the new one up and went 'oh'

so old one went back in (lol)

Ya, I'm looking foward to getting all this stuff swapped out.

now just have to find a diverter box, and I'm set!

Randy82WS7

jjjf

bingo

iTrader: (2)

I think all airbag cars used vacuum controls on the non A/C cars because the redesigned panel under the steering column prevented the use of the vent pull cables.

cdoyle

that's probably it! I hate those pull handle things, and can't wait to get rid of them.

Anyone have a non A/C diverter box they want to get rid of?

cdoyle

OK,
I'm having the hardest time finding a non A/C box.

Just want to make sure I'm understanding everything before I buy

If I get an A/C box, I will be able to use the Non A/C control right? Anyone know for sure if the vacuum connectors on the back of the control are the same?

I really want to use the non A/C control, since my car doesn't have A/C.

Thanks again
Chris.

cdoyle

How does the Diverter box come off the car?

Do you have to remove the heater box (the part in the engine bay) to get to the bolts for the diverter box?

I have the cover off the box, and looking at it. Looks like there are screws holding it on, that are screwed in from the engine bay side?

I sure hope you don't have to remove the heater box, just to get this off.

cdoyle

good grief, what a stupid design!

I finally got it off, there was 1 bolt that was bolted through from the outside in. I think you're suppose to take off the part inside the engine bay to get to it, but I was able to reach my hand inside where one of the little doors were, and was able to get my socket in there and slowly got it loose.

Why Why Why, have the bolt that way? They could have very easily had it go the other way. All the other bolts are.

argh that stuff just makes me mad.

So now I'm looking for a replacement box.

Can anyone please verify for sure, that I'll be able to use an A/C diverter with a non A/C control? I can't find a non A/C car anywhere now. (is the connector for the vacuum lines the same?)

It looks like to make it all work I'll need
The vacuum diverter
All the vacuum lines
It looks like there is a new flap door on the passenger side (what used to be controlled by the under the sterring column cable) that is run off a vacume too. Is there one for the drivers side too?

Anything else?

Anyone have pictures of under the dash, so I can see how the newer style looks all put together.

eddie jr

Chris, sounds like the airbag issue may have changed some things in later models but otherwise ac was vacuum and non-ac not vacuum. The other trick though is if you are converting to vacuum, those controls where hooked up to a vacuum tank (not jsut directly to the engine). They need a vacuum reserve to work properly in all conditions. The ac cars (without cruise) had them on the firewall above the brake booster (rectangle tank) and the cruise cars (with or without ac) had the vacuum ball under the drivers side battery tray.

It might be less grief getting a mechanical controller and keeping everything mechanical?

hope this helps.

cdoyle

Thanks for the tip about the additional part.

darn this is starting to get more expensive. I thought the dash would be the hard part.

Oh, and to make this new dash work, I really need to convert to a vacuum. Otherwise I would lose some of the venting because there is no way to mount the cable pulls (at least and not have it look dumb)

Would it matter which vacuum tank I got? So from the vacuum tank, where does it connect? To any vacuum source?

cdoyle

Oh, you say the 'AC Cars' had them either under the battery or near the brake booster.

Where did the non A/C cars have them? Because the 90-92 models also had vacuum?

Just wondering if this is an A/C only thing?

eddie jr

No, it wouldn't matter which tank you got. A vacuum source is a vacuum source. If you want the tucked away look, go for the ball under the battery tray. There will be one one vacuum line coming from the tank and then it goes to a little check valve (near the brake booster) and splits, one to the small port on the back of the intake (opposite the brake booster connection) and the other in through the firewall to the vac controls (i believe it follows the wire harness in for the control head).

If you get the rectangle tank above the booster, I believe the line from the manifold (again, opposite the brake booster connection) goes direct to that tank and then the one from the vac controls goes direct to the tank too (from in the car). I can double check that on mine as that is my setup but I believe that is the way it goes.

hope this helps.

eddie jr

oh, and one other thing. I "think" you may need a different heater box too.....not 100% sure though. It all depends if sone of the temperature doors are in the heater box or all in that distribution duct that attahces to it. That is what the little vacuum motors control so if they are in there you wont have that capability. I will try to double check in my shop manual for you.

cdoyle

Yes please check! I was under the impression from the other posts that all I would need to replace is the diverter box, and not the heater box too. I'm hoping that's the case.

eddie jr

oh, and one other thing. I "think" you may need a different heater box too.....not 100% sure though. It all depends if sone of the temperature doors are in the heater box or all in that distribution duct that attahces to it. That is what the little vacuum motors control so if they are in there you wont have that capability. I will try to double check in my shop manual for you.

eddie jr

Well, quite possible not then, i missed that. But I will peek in there anyway as I thought I saw something in the pic

cdoyle

I sure hope they aren't in that heaterbox, I spent all weekend trying to get the diverter box off, without having to remove the heaterbox (lol)

cdoyle

I've been trying to research this vent in the heaterbox thing.

What is the difference between a A/C box, and a A/C delete box? Is it the flap? Is the A/C delete box really just a heaterbox from a non A/C car?

since my car doesn't have A/C I wonder if I can get away with what I have?

I think I might be OK
eBay Motors: 82 92 Camaro Firebird Heater Box Non AC A/C Delete 1LE (item 270017653062 end time Aug-18-06 15:39:17 PDT)

Here is one out of a firebird, that is advertised as A/C delete box. I don't see any flap inside this part.

I do know I'll need to get 2 flap doors that control the lower level vents. but those look like they'll bolt right to the where my cable doors were.

eddie jr

An ac box (out in the engine bay) has room for the evap core. Air goes from the intake (in the cowl) to the blower motor (in the engine bay) through the evap core and then into the heater box. A non ac box goes direct from the blower to the heater box....just through a smaller tunnel since you don't need a giant evap core.

Bad news though. I looked in the book and it turns out all the vacuum controls are on the heater box! It looks like that is the most critical thing to change after all, not the other. I attached a pic but you can see, all the doors are on it (the heater box....they call it the core/case assembly). So you won't be able to operate those doors without the vacuum motors which are mouted on the heater box.

I look some more when I get a chance as to the other differences (if any, other than the ram vents) between ac and non ac.

hope this helps

cdoyle

Looking at your picture I'm relieved!!

We are talking about the same part, just calling it different things!!
That's the part I just removed from my car ( the part behind the dash), I thought it was called the 'diverter box', but looks like it is actually called the heaterbox.

So what is the part in the engine bay called?

Does your book have any pics of how the vent door that hooks to the firewall (passenger side), is there duct work that goes to it? This is the piece that my old system used a cable to let air hit your feet.

I wish I had a pic to show you what I mean, when I was at the wrecking yard the other day, I saw that the newer style had a flap door that went directly into the blower. But I think it was missing some duct work or something, otherwise it would just blow air into the back of the dash.

eddie jr

Not sure exactly what it is called (blower motor or evaporator box maybe). Those are the 2 things in it anyways.

That door to your feet could be the non ac power vent setup?? Hard to say without pics.

cdoyle

Thanks for the pics, what book are you using with the diagrams? They seem to be very detailed!! If it's not too expensive, I might have to get one

Is it the same with the wiring and wire colors?

After this heater issue is fixed, my next step is putting in the new dash. So need to match up the old wires to the new ones with the new dash.

I've asked this before, and gotten a couple different answers, just want to find out what is best.

The wires that go from the back of the cluster go down to that C-100 connector right?

Since the 84 cluster and the 92 cluster harnesses, don't match up. Would it be better to cut and splice the wires at the back of the cluster an rearrange them?
Or would going down to c-100 connector, and (if possible) pull the wire out of the connector and move it to the correct space be a better options?

I'm not sure if you can pull the wire out, and push it back in, but that seems easier?

Or even doing that at the back of the cluster maybe? instead of cutting the wires, pulling them out and pushing them back in? Anyone know if you can pull them out without breaking each one?

eddie jr

The book is the actual GM service manual. Worth it's weight in gold and puts the Haynes manual to shame. The electrical stuff is in HUGE detail. Every wire, colour size, circuit, routing, connector, splice etc is identified and the location given. Even all the circuit test charts are given too. A MUST have in my opinion. Got it at a swap meet for $25 and it is 4 inches thick.

I took a peek and it seems most of the wires that go through C100 (bulkhead connector) go to the engine sensors and gages. Some go to the headlight and wipers to etc. The manual identifies each cavity and what it is for. It would make splicing pretty easy.

If you want a "professional" job, pop them out of the connector and pop the new one in. It is possible, i do it all the time so things look factory. Just use a small watch repair screwdriver and slide it in both side of the clip to bend the tangs back and it will slide right out. Bend them out again before re-inserting. Otherwise, you could do a hack job and just splice wires with butt connectors or bullet connectors or soldering and taping etc. It is up to you how nice you want it. I prefer the factory look but that is just me....makes it a heck of a lot easier when going back to that wiring in the future and knowing what is what too!

cdoyle

That's what I was thinking, and thought for reliability it would be better to go that route too. So I might just do that. Plus I hate soldering wires!

Oh back to the heater, Does your book show a difference between the vacuum connector that connects to the control for the A/C and non A/C models? Or is it the same? Same number of lines ect.

thanks again!

eddie jr

i don't think non ac had vacuum (in the earlier years anyway).

cdoyle

The earlier years didn't but the 90-92 years did.

I have a 90-92 control for non A/C and it's vacuum.
That's what I'm hoping to use.

cdoyle

Does anyone have a pic of either tank? I got a bunch of the stuff today, and just not sure if the tank I got is the right one.

It has a couple wires going to it, and looks like connections for 3 vacuum lines.

eddie jr

Not sure what the 90-92 ones look like but the older ac only tank it about 10" long and a rectangle.