87GTAj

iTrader: (4)

I am nearly done painting my car, and everything's gone very smooth until now. I layed the first few coats of clear on yesterday, and noticed some areas of orange peel. I wet sanded today before I lay the final coat of clear tomorrow, and I had a question. The picture shows what the car looks like after I wet sanded. Is this normal? If not, how do I fix it? If it is, do I just clear over it tomorrow?
Thanks.

Sonymaster20

iTrader: (3)

It looks like the Basecoat is coming up.. Hmm.

87GTAj

iTrader: (4)

I don't think it's basecoat coming up, because after 4 coats of base, I sanded it smooth with 600 & 800 grit. The surface was completely smooth before I even thought about laying down the clear. The orange peel only started once I had built up to my heaviest clear coat. I'm going to put on my final clear tomorrow, but wanted to know if this is how it's supposed to look. I was wondering if rubbing compound would help?

KEVIN G.

No rubbing compound at this point!!! That is some HEAVY peel you've got going there...What clear are you using? How many Coats do you have on now? Have you Reduced your clear? What temperature are you spraying? Is it the "Right Reducer" for the Temp? what grit are you wetsanding with for your next coats...shouldn't be any more coarse than 1200...(TIP:Use Meguiar's if your funds allow!!)
You need to get that flat before your last (read) ***TWO*** coats of clear.
Basically you are just knocking the tops off the peel and not really doing anything to help the finish for the next coats... BUT you need to know how much clear you have on there before trying to wetsand it flat.... The more orange peel you have the thinner your clear is...AND if you try to get it flat you may well find yourself opening up your basecoat...Which means...you guessed it!!! You're back in to re-painting!!!
Good luck and post back

89importeater

yea what kevin g said. do you do paint work too kevin g u seem pretty on top of the paint stuff.

KEVIN G.

Ex painter (15 years)...Painted hundreds of cars... Ex Bodyshop Manager. (6 years). Fed up with Management...Now I just write estimates. (Just sick of Insurance companies now...)

87GTAj

iTrader: (4)

Clear is Extreme Clear: part of the BC/CC system I bought.
Two light coats and two medium coats right now.
The clear mixing ratio states 4:1 clear:activator - no reducer.
Sprayed it around 70*.
Wetsanded with 800 grit.
Should I try using some reducer in the mix? What ratio?
What Meguiar's product are you talking about? Basically, what is the deal with the discoloration I'm seeing? I've seen some wetsanding pictures, and they look how mine looks, then the person used rubbing compound to bring the normal look back. How do I get rid of the discoloration? Do I just clear over it once I wetsand again, or will it show through? That's pretty much what I want to know. Thanks.

KEVIN G.

Well It's probably the light coats that messed you up...You see...It was what we call "dry sprayed" or extreme orange peel. If it is not flattened through wetsanding...The next coats will pronounce the problem even more. (ie; you will add material to the high spots, or tops of the orange peel and there will not be any "flow" to fill in the "craters".)
When did the first coats go on? (as in right after the basecoat?)
When did the second coats go on?

That's good...it sounds like a high solids 4:1 clear... Check with the company to see if they even have a reducer, and how much can be added. (not imperative...but good to know...)
What is your gun set-up?

That's perfect...Humidity could play a factor, but I'm not as worried about that, as temperature....

No way! you do not want anything more coarse than 1200 g between coats of clear....wetsand it flat...you want all the orange peel gone. It should have even color and texture.... (a flattened or dull version of your basecoat)
If you continue to use 800g I would worry about wetsanding marks showing through...you can scar your existing finish and create deep gouges that WILL show when the next coats go on....
Use a sponge pad to avoid digging in to the finish and creating "finger marks"

Meguiar's wetsanding paper...Nickel coated...the best your money can buy... your arms, and your car will thank you!!
The "discoloration" is your "beginnings" of trying to get that paint flat... the darker pits are clear that has not been touched because you are too busy trying to knock all the tops off those mountains....

That's a whole different animal...you will go through this again BEFORE you buff the car....but let's get this thing painted first.

Yes and no...Yes, once every surface is dull and flat..
No, do not just reclear over all that ****...untape everything... WASH THE CAR!!!! Get all that wetsanding jizz out of every nook and cranny...
Dry every square inch...USE A BLOWGUN IN ALL THE CREVICES!! you will be amazed at how much water is trapped around edges in jambs windows...moldings...(not sure how far you have the car stripped down...) even better if you let the car sit a day before you re-clear water can f-up a paintjob in a second...
Re-tape


Wipe the car with a "FAST" wax and grease remover..
Tack cloth the car "LIGHTLY"


RE-CLEAR!!! and enjoy...for now... then let's talk about wetsanding for that high gloss shine!!!

87GTAj

iTrader: (4)

First clear went on about 20 hrs after last basecoat was applied - then each coat after the one before it became more than tacky.

Approximately 35 psi at the tip HVLP

Wipe the car with a "FAST" wax and grease remover..

Recommendations? ^^

Thanks for the tips

KEVIN G.

(Previous post editied...)


Ok, don't just go by psi @ the tip...That is good (and in recommended specs)...but what tip do you have?
Sounds like you have the basic idea...but lack the knowledge to put it all together...
I suspect, if it is a decent gun...you just need to slow your gunspeed down get the gun dialed in correctly, get your laps correct, and WATCH...WATCH...Watch!!! Now this is easier said than done...as it will take practice...You're probably better to have a bit of dryspray (yours is just excessive...) rather than runs...which can happen very easily.
PPG's 220 Wax and Grease remover is such a product that I was speaking about...
All paint companies should have a "fast" and a "Slower" solvent. The fast one evaporates quickly and there is less chance of it "biting in " to your fresh clear.

87GTAj

iTrader: (4)

Ok, so basically my problems probably began with the light coats of clear, and I need to fix that before I continue; but you said I need to wash/clean after wetsanding to get rid of the "haze". I already washed it twice after wetsanding and immediately dryed it and used an air gun, but the "haze" is still visible. Am I missing something or is that as good as it's gonna get and I can just clear over it once I've corrected the orange peel? I really just need some visual cue that it's ready for more clear.

Tip's a 1.5mm

KEVIN G.

It will still be hazy...until you re-clear. What I said was to wash all the "jizz" from wetsanding...(ie;... you want to get rid of all that excess clear... goo that is left behind...white in color. I runs down the car when wetsanding...ends up in the bucket turning the water milky white...on your sand paper...)
Post a pic of what you have now...as I said earlier it should be a flat version of your basecoat color...and when you wipe a wet rag over it you should see it brighten up...(which will also give you an idea what you will see when you re-clear.)
1.5 is good...just watch your gunspeed...and your laps which should be 50 percent. you want to see the paint go on...just dont over wet it or you'll get runs....

87GTAj

iTrader: (4)

Ok, well the picture in the first post is what it looks like after the two washes and drying. When it's wet, it looks great - goes back to that after it dries. I've been running 50% overlap. And just to make sure I'm understanding you right: the haze will be there after I'm done wetsanding and I should just clear over it. Thanks for the tips.

NY87Iroc

iTrader: (1)

Yes the haze will be there till you clear it again.

greatpumpkin_68

i work at a very reputable body shop and our process is this.. once all of the body work and primer is done the car is sprayed with a coat of sealer (color varies as to what color the car will ultimately be) to give an even base. then the basecoat is sprayed in mutiple coats but not as heavy as you would if it were a single stage paint. and then we spray two wet coats of clear. all of this can easily be done in an afternoon.. you don't need to wait hours and hours. the following day the car can be sanded with 1200 on a palm sander to basically nib any dirt that may have gotten into the clear and lightly take down imperfections. after that we wet sand with 3000 on a palm sander and sand everything again.. this should give you a relatively dull, but smooth finish. THEN you polish and glaze the paint to a mirror shine. i just wanted to throw this process out there because i know for a fact that you can easily get a show quality finish.. and the whole "sanding the basecoat" was really throwing me off.
so anyway.. that's my 2 cents.. hope it helps.

87GTAj

iTrader: (4)

I basically had some dirt caught in it from the air, so I sanded it down smooth, that's all. And where do you get 1200 or 3000 grit palm sander paper? I've got a random orbital sander but can't find any paper higher than 220 grit for it.

greatpumpkin_68

i am pretty sure we get the majority of our supplies from napa.. but i will double check with my boss tomorrow.

greatpumpkin_68

yeah.. napa is the place. it's a 3M 'hook-it' disc. instead of a self adhesive backing its more like velcro.

RAD5

greatpumpkin, not to hijack the thread but, what's the sealer for?

KEVIN G.

Well there are a couple issues here...He was attempting to get all the heavy orange peel out of his finish...with peel that heavy, by the time you get it flat enough to buff...the paint is so thin that you would more than likely have burn through...so he has the right idea here to sand and re-clear...
Also there are still a lot of basecoats out there that are not the thin urethane basecoats...PPG's DBU for instance is a polyester basecoatand it sprays kinda heavy...which causes orange peel.. and if you START with peel in the base....your clear has no choice but to have orange peel as well. so for a REALLY REALLY nice finish, after you have coverage, sand the basecoat with like 1000g put two nice wet thin coats of color down again and re-clear...

Palm sander? I hope you don't mean one of those electric jobs for home improvement repairs.... you did use a D.A., right? Yes, 3m hookit is the shizzle...but a bit pricey, especially for a one off job at home...

Sealer is not necessary, but recommended. I wouldn't spray without it... Unless you are stripping the car and starting with all substrates that you know...who knows what is under the finish you are painting over....
Sealer helps stop things like bleedthrough, or crazing and lifting from an old paint edge that you may have broken through on your last prime and block....It will also give color uniformity... nothing like painting your car and getting it all reassembled only to pull it out in the sun and see glowing little halos where all your primer spots are...

greatpumpkin_68

the sealer basically just gives you a nice uniform surface to paint on.. you should use a medium grey sealer for most colors, and a dark grey sealer for black. they also make a white sealer that you should use on colors like white or yellow ( i believe).. i have also seen people use the white sealer for red or a color that they want to add little brightness to.
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right kevin g! if you sand the basecoat you should spray more basecoat on top of it before you clear it. if you don't then there is a decent chance that the clear will lift at some point.. some kind of chemical adhesion issue.

87GTAj

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, it is hand held but it's a D.A. I used it mainly for the "stripping down to metal" portion of the paint job since I decided early on to go to bare metal on the entire car. I had hoped I could use it for the fine sanding as well, but hadn't seen any paper above 220. I will have to look into the NAPA stuff because it is a hook and loop sander. Also, I sprayed one thin coat after sanding the base, hope that was enough. Thanks again for all the tips guys.

greatpumpkin_68

Palm sander? I hope you don't mean one of those electric jobs for home improvement repairs.... you did use a D.A., right? Yes, 3m hookit is the shizzle...but a bit pricey, especially for a one off job at home...



i was talking about a palm sander that runs off of an air compressor.. it's basically a d.a. sander without the handle. i think its a little easier to control for the fine sanding.

RAD5

Thanks, I think I need to use the sealer. I get the base coat down and it looks perfect but once I get the clear down and it dries, I can see some of those "halos" that I could not see with just the base. It also looks like I am getting some scratch swelling, meaning I can see some fine sand marks under the clear even though I blocked the primer with 600. I thought I could get away with just a good 2K primer.

Bowtiebruiser

I got nothin, Kevin G. not to steal the thread but is it possable to get a fairly decent looking paint job with a single stage paint and can you clear over single stage?? I've never painted an automobile before and I just spent $600 on supplies to do my 82 Z this winter in my garage, which is climate controlled at about 72 degrees and I have a hose and spicket in my garage to knock the dust and such down, but I bought wet/dry paper ranging from 600 grit to 3000 grit, some 3 m sanding pads 800 grit, a Ingersol Rand paint gun with a butt load of tips, a new air/water separator for the compressor, some masking paper and tape, glazing compound a couple wool buffing pads and some really soft ones for my d.a. buffer. anything else I need?

KEVIN G.

Bowtie...You're over half way there...Single stage metallics...(as posted in another thread), are kind of tough for a first timer...If you are doing a solid...black red yellow orange or white...no prob...you can definitely clear over a single stage...A great way to a show finish is achieved this way.
I would stay witin the same paint line though...don't buy your single stage from ABC paints, and your clear from XYZ clearcoats...