Flightoficarus

So, I recently picked up a 91 Firebird base model w/the 305 TBI, and I am in the process of getting things taken care of on it, so it can return to driver status.

One thing I'm going to have to have done to it though, is a paint job. It desperately needs one. It has the infamous cracking GM factory paint that's notorious on these cars.

I was told that since I'm gonna have to have go the whole 9 yards with a paint job on it, that any parts that are dented beyond the point of quick repair (the drivers side fender mainly), are better off being replaced w/straight body parts before having it painted, to save on labor costs.

Then it occurred to me - If I'm already planning to get the thing painted, how much extra damage am I looking at if I were to hunt down some T/A or Formula ground effects and having them put on? Or should I just leave it alone, and have it lowered later on?

All advice/opinions welcome!

CharcoalBird

iTrader: (4)

Trans Ams had ground effects, Formulas did not. And for your 91' to add gfx, you'll have a hard time finding them...or spend a pretty penny. Keep the non-ground effect look or buy another car that already has a complete set.

wammac

Im actually considering taking off my ground affects from my 91. however i dont know how well it will look. Can you take a picture of yours? You will also need the nose with the ground effects built into it.

Flightoficarus

This is the only decent-ish pic I have of it atm. As you can see, it's in project car status



Even w/out ground fx, I think the paint and body work is gonna make an enormous difference.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

If I'm not wrong, the only difference (cosmetically) between your car and a Formula is the rear spoiler and the wheels. If I were you, I'd leave the car the way it is since (maybe its just me) you don't see very many non-ground effect 91-92 Birds.

Here's a picture of a Formula:



Good luck with yours! It's gonna be fun!

Flightoficarus

Oooh, ok. That's probably the ONLY '91-'92 Formula I've seen without the ground effects on it. I actually really do dig them on the later 3rd gens, but oh well. Can't really complain, as I got a pretty good deal on the car

How much do the ground effects/spoiler really help downforce/performance anyway? or is it mainly cosmetic?

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

That's the only 91-92 Formula you saw without gfx? No formula ever got them. Although I noticed that a lot of people call their regular firebirds "formulas" because I think that's how they show up on the vehicle history reports regardless of the ground effects... but they are NOT formulas if they have ground effects.

Flightoficarus

Yeah, I dunno man, lol. I see ALOT of 91-92's that aren't Trans Am's, but have the ground effects on them. Guess I should have just said that in the first place!

And yeah, my 91 comes up as base/formula on a vehicle report, ha.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Oh yeah the gfx were optional on regular firebirds. I think you have the Formula mixed up with the standard Bird. The Formula is pretty much a standard bird with the performance suspension (WS6) and optional TPI engines for the most part.

Flightoficarus

Gotcha.

I guess I'm learning new things here, lol. Most of my 3rd gen knowledge is more Camaro related, even if the bird is a bit more my style. Thanks!

steve87ta

iTrader: (4)

I personally love the look of the 91/92 without the gfx.

FWIW adding gfx to a car that did not originally have them is fairly common.
They do add cost to the build, more if you are paying for the work. More paint,prep and sanding and polishing...

It is your car and you should do what you like, on my wife's GTA they fit the style of the car, so we spent the extra money and did the extra work. The one I am working now is a T/A but will not have them.

Formulas are cool and so are T/A's IMHO and each have there place.

cheryl3302

I have had you 91 firebird for three years and want to remove the ground effects. It looks so much better with out them but the problem is my nose is lower than the bottom of the car. Do I have to replace the nose? If so where do I look. Will I have to also replace the rear bumper or will that line up? Thanks so much, Cheryl

rdhanded2

iTrader: (3)

If you take the ground effects off a car you will have a ugly metal plate running down the bottom of your car. Not good looking. The front and rears are different and will need to be replaced also with ones from a car without. Adding them is pricey but not hard. I have a complete set off a 91 including front and rear bumpers, impact bar, etc. Shipping would be a nightmare, and they are not cheap.

The pic I am adding is bad but it is the only one I have that kind of shows the metal support that is on the bottom of the car where the side skirts attach. You can just make it out

wammac

Yea formulas never got them. personally i like the look with them a lot more however i dont think they help a lot with performance much at all if anything they just add a bit of extra weight. They direct air flow to ur tires so in theory that helps but other then that they probably add weight and surface area.

I dont know exactly how easy it would be to add then to a non gfx car because they fit into a formation that only gfx cars have on them. Never done it tho and people say otherwise so they are probably right. If you want the entire gfx including the front then u will need a new nose and your going to need a new bumper.

Flightoficarus

So, I'm beginning to think that I'm not gonna bother w/the ground fx. Sounds like it'll be too costly for what it is when I could be allocating funds towards performance mods, and it increases weight.

However, I merely have a NEW idea now . I'm really beginning to dig the way the formulas look, possibly the most of all the trims.

If I wanted to give my car a formula look, the only thing I would need to change is to swap in a rear hatch off a formula or trans am, correct? (the different spoiler is the only real major difference I can see).

Also, if I did this, would a hatch off of an 89 fit? and look right? Someone local is parting out an 89 trans am.

wammac

yea the hatch would fit but u only need the spoiler its the same exact thing. U might even want to keep ur hatch if u have a 3rd brake like on there because some hatches dont have them and they reduce the risk of u getting rear ended

Oh and the formula has a power bulge in the hood that somewhat adds to performance/style

Flightoficarus

Yeah, mine does have the 3rd brake light. But I'm guessing it would be considerably cheaper to just find a hatch from a seller or a junkyard, than it would be to have a spoiler installed, correct?

wammac

Probably both the same im not sure if the different spoilers are mounted in differently locations or not but if they are it would probably be easier to just swap the spoiler but I havent had to do either yet so no guarantees

rdhanded2

iTrader: (3)

Spoiler is going to be easier. It is going to need to be painted so they can take care of any issues with mounting holes at that time if any need filled.

Flightoficarus

So basically, the best route would be to just find a spoiler for sale off of a formula or trans am, and just have it installed at the time of painting?

rdhanded2

iTrader: (3)

Yup

Flightoficarus

Sweet, thanks!

So, if I wanna take the extra effort in making it look like a Formula clone, I was on Hawks Third gen parts. They have an 85-92 Formula/82-84 Trans Am hood. If I were to try and scout out a good one locally, would one from any of those years for those cars work?

rdhanded2

iTrader: (3)

85 - 92 would. Not sure if older would.

steve87ta

iTrader: (4)

Correct for a 91 formy would be the flat "whale tail" with the cut out for the brake light style spoiler right?

I think they are harder to find used. On the hatches that I have, the metal brackets are different depending on the spoiler style/year.

I am going with the base spoiler on mine but I like the one mentioned above better.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

The 91-92 spoiler has an space that looks like it's for a brake light but it is not. all 91-92 cars had the brake light high inside the rear hatch.

Changing from the stock pedestal spoiler to the whale tail spoiler requires just 2 holes to be drilled and 2 holes to be filled since it can use 2 holes from the stock spoiler.

Net-Viper X

If you go with the 91-92 wraparound spoiler, you will need to find a rear window that has or had one on it. The metal trim that goes around the edges of the window have two little hooks on each side that hold the spoiler to the edges of the glass. If you dont have these hooks, the spoiler will rattle like crazy towards the front on each side. 90 model and earlier rear windows with wraparound spoilers have different mountings and wont work for the 91-92 spoiler. I ran into this problem with my car and it drove me nuts and took years to find out about the window trim with the hooks and remedy the rattle problem. This was with an actual plastic factory spoiler, the fiberglass aftermarket type might not suffer this problem.

Flightoficarus

Ah, so will I need just the window? or the entire hatch itself?

Net-Viper X

Its actually the black metal trim that goes around the back window that you will need, but it might be tough to get it off the glass without damaging something. If you can find the complete rear hatch, that would be best since it will already have the metal trim with the hooks, and the mounting bolt holes in the rear deck pre drilled in the proper spots.

all4mee

I'm updating my 88 to a 92 with gfx and so far its been ez. unbolt and bolt on. It has the complete gfx, the only problem so far is the turn front signals and running lights. I'll post pic's later.

moore1018

rdhanded2,
Couple of questions...is that metal plate welded on or screwed to the frame? And...do you still have your gfx? I'm looking for the two front quarters, which should be small enough to ship somewhat affordably.
Thanks!

Flightoficarus

Well, I noticed people are still replying to this thread, so I'll post here instead of starting a new topic!

I decided against the gfx awhile ago, but I'm officially planning to make a modded Formula clone out of my car. I'm curious if anyone here does have the aftermarket fiberglass replica of the OEM Formy/TA spoiler on their car? Just wondering if you need to add new mounting holes to the metal trim on the hatch or not. Or should I just e-mail Hawks Third Gen about this?

knight72

same here with my '92



i was told that metal plates are bolted to the rocker panels on 91-92 birds, is that correct or not?