It seems General Motors and Toyota have been cooperating a bit through the years. I know the Pontiac Vibe is essentially nothing more than a Toyota Matrix with a Pontiac emblem slapped on it, and the Chevy/Geo Prizm is a Toyota Corolla in the same respects, so on to my question:

I have noticed that the circuitry on the back of the gauge cluster is made by Denso, which makes a lot of parts for Toyota, and the Toyota Supra of the same time period of the third gen is frighteningly similar. Are these just another joint project between GM and Toyota?

(Please tell me it's not true, I will lose respect for my car if it is associated with a Toyota )

 

I don't know, I didn't lose any respect for my cars... ok, just a little, but they haul T/A parts just fine.

 

so what would you say about bosch injectors(European) that were used in them as well?

 

I don't care about the parts that go in them necessarily, so long as the engine is American and the majority of the money spent on the car stays in America.

Something tells me the Supra is much smaller though, so I have nothing to worry about. XD

 

Car companies have been sharing parts for a long time. Many of the parts they use are from established companies in their own right.


This ^

 

You don't really see many of the Toyota/GM Thirdgen ventures... mostly because they all accelerated out of control and crashed; I remember one guy speeding down the interstate in California and being tailed by the cops. Tiny thirdgen brakes couldn't even slow him down. Maybe if it was a 1LE, but..... hehehehheeheh lol

 

Off the top of my head, I can think of......

Honda Passport / Isuzu Rodeo
Chevy S10 / Isuzu Hombre
Chevy Colorado / Isuzu I370
Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute
90's Toyota Corolla / Geo Prism
Ford Ranger / Mazda B-series truck

Happens all throughout manf's history.

 

what cars are really american any more?
more Toyota's are built in the US than any of the big three/

 

Are any of the three still made in the US? I thought pretty much all of Government Motors stuff has been made in Canada since the 90s. Fords stuff made in mexico. And I have no idea about Chrysler.

 

wouldnt care if my thirdgen had toyota parts. I'd actually be impressed, Toyota parts would have probably been superior to 80's GM parts anyway

 

I think that's somewhat backwards... Some of Ford is made in Canada and most of GM (trucks esp) is Mexico.

 

i don't know about ford but Chevy and Chrysler are made in Canada and mexico cars and vans in Canada, trucks and suv's in mexico.

 

many years back I went and talked to a car salesman who had sold our family many vehicles throughout the years and I told him I wanted a GM car and he told me "hey I'll get you anything you want but just so you know almost all of the car parts are built by the same people whether it says chevy pontiac dodge ford or even toyota" He had a bunch of things and I don't remember all of them but he is very smart and actually knew who made all the parts he told me about. If I remember right I believe most of the suspension parts are made by the same people ECMs were made by the same people and I think also engine and transmission internals were built by the same people there were several others that I don't remember right off.

Also GM owns stock in Isuzu and if I remember right I think Isuzu builds a lot of the transmissions for chevy trucks, apparently GM and Honda trade engines for certain cars, Also GM is in hybrid parterships with honda and chrysler. Even the 5th gen Camaro is based on a Holden (another company GM owns which is based in Australia) Ford owns mazda, and many other car companies have joint ventures.

As far as Toyota and GM I have always wondered that myself so I found this article http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=125229157 for those who don't want to read it, it basically states that Toyota and GM's partnership started in 1982 when GM decided to close the New United Motor Manufacturing Inc factory in Fremont, CA because of the poor quality of workers and as a result poor quality vehicles. Toyota wanted to start producing cars in the US but wanted to get to know the "American workers" so GM let them take over the New United Motor Manufacturing Inc factory and when they reopened in 1985 their quality was really good. Apparently they built the Corolla and the Chevy Nova which were the same car and I believe in later years the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix. I know this isn't really 3rd gen related but in 1986 they tried to implement the same strategy in the Van Nuys plant (where most of our 3rd gens were built) and they refused to change their ways and nobody there ever believed they would close the plant and that's why they closed the plant and started building Camaros and Firebirds in Canada. Sorry I know this may be more than anyone cares about but hopefully it answers your question.

Also for the person who owns the Vibe I had a salesman tell me once that somewhere on the gas cap it says Toyota I have never looked but I was just curious if you have ever noticed this.

 

I work in a bodyshop and we've gotten the same Vibe twice; Once for the front end, once for the rear. We've had both bumpers off and most of the rest of the front end, and there's A LOT more than just the gas cap that says Toyota. We showed the 5mph impact Styrofoam from the front and rear of the car which clearly says "TOYOTA" on it to the owner and they said if they had known that they wouldn't have bought it because they wanted a Pontiac. XD

Also, on the radiator support of a Mercury van I once saw "NISSAN".

 

This car just looks so much like a Firebird... it scares me.

From what I can find out, the Supra is 51 inches high, has a wheelbase of 102 inches, and the Firebird is 50 inches high and a wheelbase of 101 inches... very close.

However, the third gen is four inches wider than the Supra and at least 10 inches longer, depending on the year.

 

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

 

You can't be serious right? If I find another guy out there that's and inch shorter/taller then me, does that mean he's my brother? Ofcourse not cause most of the ~100 million grown men in America will fall within probably a 16 inch range. Same with certain classes of cars, certain class usually fall within a certain range.

 

You know I wouldn't mind having one of those and putting a Toyota V8 in it. That would be sick to have 2 cars from opposite sides of the world with close similarities. I think it would be fun.

 

This is because Ford owns over 60% of Mazda. All the b-series are Fords. Ford also completely funded most of Mazda's newer lineup when they did a full redesign. As for Isuzu GM bought them up years ago I heard the Duramax diesel is actually an Isuzu engine. Dodge is also going to be making trucks for Nissan.

I'm willing to bet that Supra looks like a Firebird is because Toyota copied some of the styling from GM. Not really a surprise they love American muscle.

 

GM Trucks weren't made in Mexico until 1999. Starting in 1981 they were(and still are) made in the US & Canada. Prior to 1981 they were all made in the US.

 

dodge stealth / mitsu 3000
plymouth laser / mitsu eclipse / eagle talon
ford escape(maybe explorer)? / mazda tribute

I heard from one of my very credible performance instructors when I went to school that GM sold production rights to toyota for the 5.7 Block, and that is what all toyota's use if you take a look at the design, they are exactly the same to the last oil passage i guess.
A lot of people dont want to believe it, but the man was very credible.
Can't say I like toyota vehicles, they seem very cheap and flimsy/thin, while trying to maintain style...just a weirdo combo. Not to mention the way a lot of lexus owners act doesn't help. God forbid you tell them they bought a toyota lol. Everytime I seen a toyota now I try to stay behind it in case their accel gets stuck to the floor, don't want my **** wrecked because of faulty 21st century Japanese products. LoL
Also heard another similar story about toyota/gm working on the engines that were put into the 2nd gen saturns. Heard it was a toyota motor essentially, and man that motor sucked lol.

 

Many automotive suppliers make parts for different automakers. However, the parts are each done to each manufacturers specs. It's usually not the same parts being used by different companies. Denso for example is/was used by more companies than GM and Toyota. I worked as quality manager for a large automotive supplier and we supplied parts for many different companies. We built the parts to customer specs so most parts were fairly different compared to those for other companies.

It only makes sense that suppliers that provide quality products will be used by more automaker.

 

The fourth generation camaro was made in quebec. I also know gm has a plant outside of toronto and I believe one somewhere in alberta. The only gm car that I can think of that is still made in the us is the corvette. As far as ford I know they were having engines made in mexico in the 60s. I can't tell you about chrysler as I dont know much about them. I doubt they are made in the us though.

 

That was DSM, diamond star motors a joint venture between Mitsubishi and Chrysler. About 10 years ago Chrysler dropped all funding for Mitsubishi not long after the Daimler takeover. I think they owned over half the shares but I can't remember if that is correct.

As for trucks made in Mexico well the best selling mid sized truck which is a Toyota is made in Mexico.

 

REALLY? You think GM's only American built car is the Vette, and that Chrysler has no US production??? Living in Michigan, automotive capitol of the world, I suppose I should drop some knowledge.

Here's a list of cars made by the big 3, just in MI:
GENERAL MOTORS
Buick Enclave,
Buick Lucerne, Detroit-Hamtramck
Cadillac DTS, Detroit-Hamtramck
Cadillac CTS, Lansing
Cadillac STS, Lansing
Chevrolet Silverado, Flint
Chevrolet Traverse, Lansing
GMC Acadia, Lansing
GMC Sierra, Flint
Pontiac G6, Orion
Saturn Outlook, Lansing
FORD
Ford F-Series, Dearborn
Ford Focus, Wayne
Ford Mustang, Flat Rock
CHRYSLER
Chrysler Sebring, Sterling Heights
Dodge Avenger, Sterling Heights
Dodge Dakota, Warren
Dodge Ram, mWarren
Dodge Viper, Detroit
Jeep Grand Cherokee, Detroit
Jeep Commander, Detroit
OTHERS
Mazda6, Flat Rock
Mitsubishi Raider, Warren
Source: Autodata

These are just the cars GM, Ford and Chrysler make in Michigan, and they have many factories in other states.

 

Out of all the cars the US manufacturers make these are the only ones that are made in the US? I'm not impressed. And what constitutes made in the US? Are the parts made in China and then assembled in michigan? I had a 93 pontiac junbird and the engine was made in brazil, cant remember where the trans was made, and everything else on the car was made in some foriegn place. Honestly I think japanese cars that are made here in the US are more american than the three's cars.

 

No, again, these are the cars they make in MICHIGAN, one state of the 48. It was the easiest info I could find to prove the big 3's domestic production. While some parts are made in other countries, the big 3 deal much more with domestic parts suppliers like Leer, Dow, Tower, and American Axle.

 

GM does not have any power train plants in Brazil. In fact they are all in the USA or Canada aside from a few in Europe and more recently one in China. Regardless any motor that came in Sunbirds was bulletproof. Turbo models excluded but not all that bad.

Not true. Even if the car did have a high content of cheapo parts, you bought the bottom of the barrel GM had to offer. You don't buy a J-body and expect top notch parts and quality.

 

"Regardless any motor that came in Sunbirds was bulletproof."

Not True! there were many problems with the front wheel drive sunbird motors. Many would drop a piston thru the side after 100k(non turbo). and the same engines were installed into barrettas, corsicas, cavaliers etc. How many of these do you still see on the road today that are not a 6 cyl?

 

That's more because the car disentigrated around the engine.

Though if you go to the more poor part of town you will see corsica's, cavaliers, and berreta's all over the place. As well as Astro vans, lumina's caprice's, and a slew of other older vehicles, 3rd gens included.

 

That is not by any means common at all. If you are referring to the 2.0L OHV. Main issue with the motors are head gaskets which is possibly the easiest head gasket to change. I have actually worked and driven one of these hard since a friend had one as a first car. The thing took a beating and never gave in it was a noisy woodpile of a motor that is for sure.

Quite a few actually though more with the 2.2. Also 2.8's and 3.1s are more common as they were better and more powerful then any of the early 4cyls in these cars.

 

My father still has the car broken down out in his driveway and I can promise you it had Brazil on the motor. I could take a pic but it wouldnt be worth my time.

 

imported from GM of Brazil - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Sunbird

made in brazil motor - http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...gine-swap.html

This engine was made in Brazil - http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t967910.html

 

the 2.0 OHC was only offered in the sunbird, the cavis and others all had the 2.2 OHV and the older j bodies had 2.0 OHVs. The be brutally honest theres a **** ton of these cars still out there that aint v6s and the ones that have been modded put out some pretty impressive numbers. The 2.2 was the work horse, and damn near impossible to blow up. ive had all three and and would personally own either one again.

OP, i kno that Toyo and Gm had a partenership on the 95-00 Cavys, they were badged as a toyota and were actually better optioned than a GM Cavy and were made right here in the states. They had such things as motorized mirrors, were factory RHD, eyelids for the headlamps, spoiler, etc. see the photo attached.

GM like the other big 3 own, well up to recently, owned most of the smaller companys and used styling cues from each other, as well as parts. As well as joint ventures with the bigger Companies. Toyota and Gm have been in bed together for a long long time.

 

i bought a corsica with the 4 cyl. for 500bucks it did 0-60 in 4 years but i beat that thing like there was no tomorrow for at least six months and when i say beat i mean beat i jumped curbs on a regular basis hit trees guardrails pulled the e brake goin around almost every corner im talkin the pedal was to the floor or the car was off i then sold it to my friends mom for 300 bucks and she still drives it to this day.... runs like a champ 200,000+ miles custom spraycan racing stripes and all!!! she thinks its hillarious she has it just for gas mileage

 

GM does not have any Brazilian powertrain plants listed. Even on those links all they don't specify. Any info on the powertrain plant?

"Both engines were replaced by a new SOHC 1.8L four, imported from GM of Brazil." They do mention Opel/Vauxhall in your link as well.

 

my Pontiac was built in Australia
long live the G8!

 

The Supra has similar styling cues but they share no parts compatibility and the chassis is completely different. Their similarities are cosmetic only and in looking at that picture above I'd say the similarities aren't all that similar. A lot of cars in the 80's had a similar style. That's just how things were back in the 1980's. Just as all 1990's cars were bubble cars with more curves than a 400lbs. pound fat woman riding a scooter in a grocery store. In the 20xx time frame the cars are big bubble'ish shapes with hard edges on them. More or less larger squared off evolutions of their 90's cars.

If they drew any inspiration from the third generation F-bodies it was only to get them started. The headlamps and the front marker lights remind me of a third gen slightly, but nothing else on that car does. The angled roof line and b-pillar was just common to seemingly everything from the time period.

 

Well some how we have gotten OFF Topic.

 

So was mine. Well at least one of the three I've got in the driveway. My 2005 GTO was built over there.

 

must be nice....

 

I was made in Mexico.

 

as the NEW chevy Caprice!

 

True. That was the mark III which started production in 86 and ended in 92. Just kinda made a copycat Firebird to boost sales I guess.

 

So toyota basicly turned the cavalier into a true r*cer. Giant wing and eyelids, lol.

 

Was there anything else that could be done with it?

 

That cavalier looks like a joke... it has to be. Something like that is what people make fun of anymore....Lol.

 

Just because a car is built in the US doesn't mean the majority of the money goes to a US company. The majority of the money still goes back overseas to fund another country more than our own. Our country is so full of dishonest polotical scoundrels, I honestly don't want to give my money to anyone, including taxes. Especially since they want to spend it on bs and not on necessities (Road work, healthcare, etc) efficiently instead of putting us more into debt every year. Honestly can't say I am proud to be apart of this country right now...mainly because of the politicians in power and the morons who put them in power.
My buddy is a marine and has to take orders from someone who has no battlefield experience. Makes perfect sense.

 

This post has certainly gotten way off track. I think I answered the original question in post #13 pretty completely without question. I say who cares where a car is built or what name is on it anyway, if you like the car drive the damn thing that's the only thing you can do. If you think GM is the best then great drive it, who cares where it's built or if somebody is copying it or where the money goes for a car that is purchased brand new. Last I checked this was a 3rd generation F-body site and all of these were built in the good old U.S.A., so it really doesn't matter what the sunbird or cavalier did or what their quality was. Also I think the body section is the completely wrong section to have this debate.

In reality the cars we all love here to be aren't all that great anymore performance wise. Don't get me wrong I love these cars when you look at where this car came from (the 2nd gen camaros and firebirds) these things came a long way they went from all carbureted, very thirsty and (in the end of 2nd gen years anyway) very bland performance wise motors, to fuel injected, fuel efficient and for that matter pretty damn good performing cars for their day. Unfortunately that day has passed, today the slowest (new) Camaro you can buy would spank ANY 3rd gen Camaro EVER mass produced.

My final point I would like to make is this; we are all entitled to our opinion as to what we like best but be thankful for competition. The days of 3rd gen Camaros and IROCs battling the 5-0 mustangs was before my time but do you really think so many Corvette parts would have made it into our beloved 3rd gens if it weren't for the 5-0 mustangs? Think about that for a second the Camaro and Mustang have gone through about the same things within a couple of years their entire lifetime, without the mustang the Camaro would not have been the car it was (actually today or in 3rd gen days) also the mustang would not have been as good of a car as it was if it weren't for the Camaro. Unfortunately or the way I look at it fortunately there are more players in the game today, japanese cars have the reputation for being the most reliable but in reality GM is putting out the best cars they ever have today hands down (no american car has ever had a massive recall for cars that accelerated out of control) and we all have Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda and many others to thank for that. Unfortunately in my opinion and I'm sure many other's also GM, Ford, Chrysler and all other car manufacturers have not been able to provide us with a body style as sexy as our 3rd gens (and I'm including 5th gens but they are a close 2nd) since then and I believe that's why were all here. Long live competition to give all of us great cars.

 

I think we are confusing suppliers with the OEM companies. Bosch makes about 75% of all fuel injectors in the world and well as most windshield washer motors out there. To find the same parts suppliers made parts for GM and other manufacturers shouldn't surprise anyone, there are only so many companies out there that can produce the volume needed to meet the OEM's requirements.