Long story short I bought a 1991 Firebird and it is pretty much all original I think, but the back/tail part of the rear window didn't line up correctly with the body............So I adjusted it all was going well until I did that last little tweak. and opps......

So now in the market for another back window, I am not caring about the third brake light, and I understand all F-Bodies fit all other F-bodies but my question is.......What is the best way to adjust these #1 and , #2 to install it so I don't do this again. After I get the window put back in then I will need to repair or place the pull down motor which was going to be my next task after aligning the hatch. Any advice would be helpful, thanks in advance.

 

Best way? When you remove the hatch hinges from the body to drop the new one in, you'll notice that both holes in each hinge are NOT the same shape. One will be just a plain round hole, and the other will be a square, like for the strut towers. Make them both squares in each hinge and give your new hatch some adjustment WITHOUT worrying about breaking the glass. If you will notice, the hatch isn't misaligned at the deck lid, it's misaligned the whole way front to back.

 

Mmmkay so make the smaller round hole, square or just bigger, right?

Then I should put some sealer on the back side of the nut to make sure there are no leaks I would assumn looks like there was some kind of stuff like body caulk on there before.

Wouldn't that ridge going up hill slightly cause the seal not to seal as good?

I got a major mess going on here, with cleaning up that glass ugh.

 

You can make that hole bigger but if you look closely, it will move at a 45 degree angle. As it moves to the front of the car, it also moves the hatch away from the w-strip. If your hatch seemed too long, stuck over the taillights too far, as most of them do, I'd bet the hatch has came loose from the glass. Do a search on this forum, I'm sure there's a lot of posts about this. Triad f-body club in NC has a thread on reattaching the glass and hatch on their website.

 

I am pretty sure that is what happened, that the actual tail piece cam loose from the glass and moved a bit, but now I got no glass to attach it to. I gave the last bolt too much torque and kablue' and the party was over. Even had it lined up perfectly

But it seemed like a lot of variables to go wrong and I blew it, now to try again.

 

@ Whitegold88 , link to the thread ?

 

http://www.triadfbody.com/ That's the addy for the clubs website. I tried to find the thread but couldn't. I'll post a link if I find it.

 

Sweet - thank you!!

 

I still can't find it! It's not that bad of a job. Get some help though, that hatch is HEAVY. I pulled off the shocks, shut the hatch but didn't latch it. Used boxes and pillows to hold it up off the latch then unbolted the hatch from the glass. Cleaned everything, applied urethane, then set the hatch back on the glass. Started the nuts then let the hatch down to latch then from inside, tightened the bolts with someone aligning the hatch with the quarter panels. I would suggest leaving the shocks off for at least 24 hours to let the urethane set up good. I used urethane across the entire glass.

 

I got my eye on some glass but it has a crappy latch part so I am glad I still got my latch stuff. Initially I used adhesive silicone never even got a chance for it to cure.

 

I was wondering about doing a hatch swap... The donar car I got for parts for my car has rear window defogger while my car does not. How easy is the swap? Should my car have the wiring already in place when I remove the trim?

 

I hope you're not messing with the bolts that go through the glass at the hinge. Silicone will be fine for sealing those but any adjustment you get in them can cause the glass to break. Best to leave those alone. Silicone will not hold the hatch and glass together, neither will the bolts that hold the two together. Urethane glass adhesive, primerless preferably, is the only thing I know of strong enough to hold these in place. If you are trying to separate the two and they haven't loosened up already, they are only glued together on the sides. The center just uses butyl tape kit. Soft gooey stuff, urethane sets hard. You need a wire to cut or saw through urethane. Wish I had took pics when I done mine. Good luck, let me know if I can help, hope this does.

The wiring isn't there or wasn't on my 88. I used those wires from my 84 to power cooling fans. Best I remember it was a seperate harness from the other harnesses. Got power from junction block on left inner hinge post same place that powers electric seat and power hatch release.

 

Good that is what I was deducing so I did a good thing to start with.

 

I can describe the type of wire better and where and how to cut them loose if you need. I'd try the hatch first and hope it fits. They are kind of a PITA to cut apart if they haven't separated already.

 

Had to come back for this:

According to the FSM, for 1992:

"Compartment Lift Window Fore and Aft and Side to Side Adjustment.

Open Lift Window and support.

1. Remove upper roof finishing molding (part covering hatch hinge nuts).
2. Remove counterbalance support "struts".
3. Loosen hinge-to-body nuts.
4. Close window.
5. Adjust window fore-to-aft and side-to-side as necessary by moving hinge studs in OVERSIZE hinge mounting holes.
6. Tighten hinge nuts when window is in position to 18 lb ft.
7. Open window and support.
8. Reattach strut supports.
9. Reinstall upper finishing molding.
10. Close window. "

Did that say anywhere to remove the "finish panel" from the glass? Since 2 of the holes aren't quite oversize, this would entail MAKING them oversize.

As for the height: "Remove lift window and remove or install spacers under hinges as needed. Adjust side bumpers as necessary to match rear quarter height."

You can do yours how you want... I'll do mine right.

:edit: Oh, and the torque spec for the glass-to-hinge bolts is 124 in. lbs.

 

Good to see what the factory manual says. That was printed in 92, these cars are at least 18 years old now. Maybe yours hasn't came loose yet, if not then you can adjust it that way if you want. But if your hatch is hanging over the taillights, longer than the quarters over half an inch then you'll have a very large hole up there by the time you get the hatch to line up. Nearly everyone that I've had to replace the hatch motor or had to align the hatch in the past 10 years had came loose. That's what kills the hatch motors. Don't work on that many lately but the last one had the same problem.

 

True, I had mine on the passenger side about a half inch and on the driver side 1/4 inch and the glass looked good. (notice past tense) I think I just over torqued the glass to the 'Finish Panel' and explosion happened from that. I will be re purchasing today the finish part and trying again. I will be drilling the holes out bigger top side though just in case.

 

I'll bet that if you looked at yours it would be off at the top more than the bottom. Mine is over 1/4" off at the top and only 1/8" back over the tails. And yes, I've measured the tail overhang several times. And the reason my hatch striker doesn't line up is because it's bent...

Question: If the hatch glass or the finish panel had come loose from each other, wouldn't one think that it would take a little LESS effort to get them separated when you guys went to "adjust the hatch"?

Personally, I'd rather do it right and NOT have to replace a $2000 piece of glass.

 

Read what you posted. No where does it say to remove the hatch hinge. How can you OVERSIZE the holes with the hinge in the way? If your service manual is golden then why did they leave that step out? Do what you want with your car. Let us know how your hatch fits after you do your adjustment. I'm speaking from years of experience working on third gens and a whole lot more. Anyone can get and read books on brain surgery but. . . And yes if they have separated they are easy to adjust but with the pressure of the lift supports it won't stay unless you take them apart and reattach them with urethane, period. I don't want to get in any BS over trying to help out a fellow third gen owner but maybe less books, less posts, more work and your car would look better in a pic beside your 4000 post count. In pieces soon to be nope mine is built, driven today and every day. Good luck with your project. What I'm trying to tell you is that these forums can be good to get others experiences with repairing their cars. That's something you can't find in most books.

Aphrodite, like I said, unless you want to use your old hatch, I'd try the new,used one and if it fit good it would probably be easier to just paint the new one. Personally, I'd go ahead and use my old hatch on another glass. Especially since it's not going to be any trouble to separate your hatch now. That way there is no paint work to do and you can align it perfectly. Sorry about the rant but sometimes . . . .

 

I just picked up the glass for $50.00 the bolts/hinge missing from the top of the glass and the lower part is rusty as hell so I will be doing complete swap pics as I go for you guy's judgment.

 

Good deal. Did you get the defogger? My old car had one but the new $300 car didn't. I let the old hatch go with what was left of my old car and wished I hadn't. Careful with the hinge bolts going through the glass. A little piece of dirt or part of your old glass caught in the middle would send you searching and cleaning glass again. A little soft sealer in there would be good. Good luck let us know how it goes.

 

So far so good, got the old hinge bolts that was through the old glass out. Only one gave me **** it just didn't want to let go, I put some RTV around the bolt before putting them through the glass. The older tail piece junk one I just bought, wasn't stuck very hard at all on there so it was easy removal but the silicone adhesive I used to attach last time was a bitch to get off. got the glass on the car and bolted to the body now to get the tail on and see how it will go with an alignment check then to add adhesive and try it again. I think I figured out where I went wrong last time, will show it later as long as this time goes well.

 

Be sure to use urethane to hold them not silicone. I'd let it set for a least a day before putting the supports back on. Good luck

 

On it!! Pics to come as soon as I uploads them to photobucket.

I also found out why the pull down motor wasnt working it was in pieces held into place with zipties, it was an interesting mess.

 

I've got a brand new GM in the box motor and housing. The new GM motors are different from the old ones so they send the housing with them. I already got the reinforced housing from Hawks. Put it on and mine shuts like a charm. Let me know if you need it, I didn't give but $60 for it I believe. I'll let you have it for what I gave for it plus shipping. I would send it back but I hate to, they take pretty good card of me at work. Perks of being at a GM d-ship.

 

And now for todays little project......

This is where it all started about 5 days ago....




sealed it up for the night thinking I would get my hands on another piece of glass was sick expecting $200~$300 expense.



Bad news was No one had one......so I thought......

I found this sweet deal on Craigslist for $50.00, little rougher than I was expecting, but still workable.....

 

After cleaning it up I got the hinges off what was left of my old window frame and attached them with some RTV in between glass and the head of the bolt, very carefully, no inch pound torque wrench so I had to feel it to be tight kinda scary considering I over tightened a nut on the other end and shattered it last time.




Speaking off these washers need to sandwich the glass I don't think I put these in last time before I torqued it down could have been the issue more than likely.




And now a little separation it was easy enough it wasn't stuck very well at all....



It it was rough getting it on the car by myself no help so I robbed my couch to set the window on and then could rotate it around as needed got it into place.

first pic is of the square and round hole that holds only one of two hinges




And then the finished product using actually polyurethane adhesive that has specific design for glass and metal



Yay all done!!! Now to keep the strut supports off about a week while I gather my other parts to repair the seal and to repair the pull down motor.

Notice the high tech hold up device being used in the mean time LOL

 

Looks good, good job.

 

Yeah, well, I'll bet you didn't buy yours as what was already a work in progress with 195K, either, with body panels having been half-a$$ replaced, a passenger's door that wouldn't lock, a turn signal wire in the steering column that was shorted and blew 2 fuses, and so many engine and powertrain problems it was a wonder the thing got home. Tell you what, when you have to readjust your hatch because you separated the deck from the glass and now it's not stuck tight and mine's still sitting where I put it and you shatter your hatch, I don't want to have to tell you I told you so. And you guys just keep spreading info that's incorrect and NOT how the factory does it, so people have opportunity not just to injure themselves but to break expensive car parts as well. Maybe between 87 and 92 GM changed the tooling and made all 4 hatch holes oversize, I don't know, but only my outer hinge mount holes are oversize and the middle ones aren't. I haven't looked in the 87 FSM I have because the 92 was more accessible at the moment, but there is plenty of info in both that has changed a little.

Thing is, if people don't start seeing the RIGHT information, they're going to keep doing things that can be potentially hazardous and expensive that we can't afford to keep passing around. So, just keep passing it around...

Oh, and I'll do mine the factory way because I have a rather difficult to find NON-defog hatch, and I'm short on cash, so I can't really afford to break it. And when your car rusts away and mine doesn't because it's been rust-proofed, well, you'll know why mine's a work in progress.

BTW, how many people ask YOU how to fix their car, hmm?

 

Guys I think you two are talking about Apples and oranges, two different reason to work on a hatch. Take it somewhere else to bicker, mmmkay?

 

No mine was a V6, abandoned with a roof you could read a book through, $300. Wouldn't take 10 grand for it now. I've already done the hatch on my car as I said in a previous post and it lines up much better than NEW. I remember these cars well when they were new. Do you? Was working in a Chevy d-ship then. Maybe GM designed those holes that way for a reason. If your hatch doesn't line up with those holes then something else is probably wrong. As I said before, I work on lots of cars and have for nearly 30 years. This is not my first car. And yes, I get calls every week for people wanting me to work on their car. Finished 5 or 6 this week alone. Turned over 80 hours.

Just maybe they left one set of holes oversize to allow for tollerances between the hinges and glass to keep them from binding but still control the glass front to rear.

Also as I said before, books are good for torques and things like that but they don't replace experience. That's the good thing about these forums. Read others experiences and people full of information's post and hopefully figure it out from there. So when your hatch won't open and your books can't help you can look to this thread and find your hatch and glass have seperated and fix it yourself.

 

I agree Aphrodite. Didn't want it to get that way but...sorry I knew I had seen a thread on this topic. Here you go https://www.thirdgen.org/hatchalign

 

Hi, real quick if you can, I am reading the directions for my 3M urethane adhesive, and it says I must use PRIMER, is that necessary? I don't have primer.

 

Don't know why I'm replying here, but...

They're (3M) talking about adhesive primer, similar to the stuff you first apply to the windshield and the mounting plate for the rearview mirror before putting on the adhesive...

 

I just cleaned mine with lacquer thinner and applied, the urethane I bought was caulk gun tube stuff I bought at Home depot.

 

Use the recommended primer as needed. Some urethanes are primerless some aren't. Don't believe it's the same primer as rear view mirror adhesive. Check with manufacturer as some info on net ain't worth a crap.

Urethane is used mostly on windows that could be considered structural. Thus the need for maximum adhesion. It's used on the rear hatch/glass to keep the two from sliding as the bolts will not hold them still with the pressure of the lift support. The primer is really up to you but to be sure I'd use it if available. I personally didn't use it as I didn't have any and wasn't buying a can just for that. Mine seems tight so far but no big deal if it does come loose. Good luck and be careful tightening the nuts. As posted be sure and put the plastic washers in place.

 

I just did some more detailed Looking at the tube and dunno about Urethane but the product I used was Poly-Urethane not had any problems yet so just in case there is a difference I would suspect there is, just some good FYI XX

Sorry if my language has thrown anyone