after about a month of prep work on my t/a, i finally went to paint it today. im not repainting the whole car, about half of it cuz of stupid people in shopping centers who bashed the hell out of my car with their huge suv's that make my full size silverado look like a matchbox.
I have my car set up in a pop up tarp garage thing and had everything all set to paint. just drained the compressor of water, put an inline water eliminator in place, prepped the paint gun, used surface cleaner on the car, mixed the paint with fish eye eliminator. then it all went to hell.
mixed the paint and went to shoot a piece of the car (the center t-top bar which is outside) and it was like the paint was being repelled. i thought this is terrible, maybe there is just some sort of oil on it still. i hit the front bumper and same thing...i thought my god, i hope this is just a coincidence, maybe the bumper is messed up so i tried a sample area of the car and same thing. i went to go get laquer thinner and when i returned i saw the primer peeling off the car from the paint. now i have to reprime sections of the car and find out why this happened.

i am thinking part of the reason why this happened is cuz i used a different brand reducer than the brand paint i purchased. that is the only variable that i can think of that would cause this. anyone else have any ideas? i tried to be specific in the story so that it didnt sound like i was some schmuk that decided to buy a paint gun and go to town, ive done this 3 times before with this car but never had an issue like this.

 

what is "fish eye eliminator", i've never heard of that, maybe that is your issue? and are your sure you used reducer and not something else? could be a simple mix up

 

What was your air pressure? HVLP? type of gun? paint brand? 2 stage?

 

Problem number one.

 

i found out the issue, it was the surface cleaner. i took an old fender from my brothers 4x4 truck and painted it (its white so i figured this way i could see the coverage good) and it had no issues at all. the surface cleaner must've dried before i could wipe it off as instructed.

and fish eye eliminator has been around for a while, its supposed to be a precautionary thing to add to the paint which will prevent the fish eye from forming if theres a tiny imperfection in the cleaning.

and i dont know what the pressure is of the gun, its an ingersol rand is all i can tell you lol, gravity fed gun.

and all the filler primer got sanded off, i had an issue with that a while ago so i sanded all the spots that the filler primer was used and reprimed it. i have used the filler primer before with no problems at all with painting over it, only problem ive ever had with it (seems to be every time) is sanding it. it always clogs my sand paper and it is annoying so i normally get fed up and go at the whole panel with 80 grit and go to metal and start again

thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. looks like i'll be painting tomorrow now lol

 

ok i tried this surface prep stuff with wiping it clean like directed on a scrap piece of metal and still the same issue. luckily it wasnt on my car again lol. anyone have any ideas on good stuff to prep with? i'm going to try acetone i think

 

why not hit the whole car with a LIGHT sand, then tack rag, then spray the paint?

 

i've heard a couple horror stories of people using a tack rag and there being a tiny bit of wax on it to promote the sticking of the dust and the wax being wiped all over the car

 

What Primer Sealer did you use prior to shooting the paint, how long between sealer and paint, and did you wet sand the sealer before you shot the paint?

 

Any solvent you wipe with now will just lift the rustoleum primer. Don't use acetone. Try wax and grease remover. That may not lift the primer. Please use a 2k primer(read: catalyzed) as suggested so that when you degrease, you're not in fear of damaging the primer coat. Once you've done that, sand to 400, degrease again, tack, spray. Don't seal it.

 

Why wouldn't you want to use sealer????

 

Tack rags are a must for me or its a no go. they only leave glue behind when you scrub instead of rub. and use find a final wash, grease remover.

 

you guys think acetone is too harsh? and i did use rustoleum primer sealer, i never had an issue with it. it was dry for atleast a week prior to attempting paint. the issue had nothing to do with the primer, it was the cleaner solvent. i know this because it didnt just lift the primer off, it also started to lift the paint off too. i've sprayed primer and painted less than a day later and it was fine.

 

I used 4th Dimension 2 stage paint along with their surface prep cleaner and had no problems at all with it. I used a tack rag on the primer coat before spraying the base coat. Tack rags are best used if you gently move across a panel with very light pressure. You are only picking up dust, lint and other small particles after you wipe the car with surface prep. If you press too hard it will leave a residue on the panel and cause a problem when the paint hits it.

I have been told its best to use the same brand of products through out the painting process so you don't have any kind of chemical reactions. Also i have never used a fish eye eliminator in any of my paint jobs. Some people are religious about that stuff, some aren't.

And Acetone can be wicked stuff at times. I wouldn't use it for surface prep at all. A surface cleaner is like a deluted type of alchohol used for removing wax, tar, oil and any pollutants on the panel. Acetone can break down and strip certain types of paint.

 

actually you gave me an idea. what about rubbing alcohol? shouldnt be bad on the paint plus it evaporates real quickly and i dont think it'll leave behind any chemicals. and yeah i used the surface prep the first time i painted my car. difference was that i washed the car down with warm water (at the shop that was still open the garden hose was hooked up to the water heater) and no soap and that worked great. this time i followed all the directions for the surface prep (wipe down the vehicle with the cleaner and then wipe the cleaner off with a dry rag) and i still got the same results

 

Use wax and grease remover, Naptha, MEK, lacquer thinner, denatured alcohol et. al. Stop purchasing car painting materials from Walmart. Take some time to do research.

 

Must've confuse Napa for walmart. Especially when their two paint guys said "just finished painting my quarter midget or street rod and used this and came out great"

 

first thing i did today when i woke up (very lazily cuz i just got off work at 4 am) i called napa and talked to their paint guy....again. i told him the issue and he said that you need to wait 24 hours after the surface prep is applied cuz it has a chemical reaction with the existing paint and can cause the issue i had. he further stated that someone with a chevelle had the same issue, except he painted the whole car and it came out like "alligator skin" and he was fuming mad. so HA! im not the only one that this has happened to! now i dont feel like such a douche lol. and just want to throw it out there, no where on the can does it say wait 24 hours....just say

 

That's because you don't need to wait 24 hours. If you'd use the correct materials, you can degrease(or surface prep as you call it) and spray 5 minutes later.

 

im almost positive that acetone has oil in it and that it would lift the primer or shw up later in the paints life. witch would be no good. rubbing alcohol... i wouldnt take the chance.

 

Haps is right. Right after you do your surface prep, its ready to paint. I have never heard of anyone having to wait a whole day to finally spray the paint. You run the risk of contaminents(dust, lint, oil from finger prints, etc..) getting back on the surface again. If that was the case body shops would take longer to paint the panels and such.

Stick with good auto body paint supplies and don't mix brands or be cheap with primers, thinners and such. It will cause problems either immediately or show up later on.

 

Sealer is the last thing you shoot before you paint the car... I don't know of any painters who would consider Rustoleum to be an automive type paint if you were wanting any kind of even half decent results....

As firehawk mentioned, use automotive type paints through reputable auto body supply sources and leave the Rustoleum for the lawn furniture....

 

if i was going to go to a body shop to get the paint and primer then i'd go to them to just pay the money and have them shoot it like any other joe shmoe. i'd like to do the stuff i can by myself. i dont have the tip to shoot correct automotive primer, and the paint shop i bought the paint for the car (yes, they supply only automotive paint fellas) sold the rustoleum. im not using 'hammered finish' or 'fusion finish' or anything like that.
and acetone is ok to use on the paint, but that apparently takes 48 hours to cure. i dont know how body shops use surface prep (or tar and degreaser as you call it). maybe they stick it under the heat lamp or something, i couldnt tell you, obviously i dont work in a body shop cuz if i did then i wouldnt be asking these questions and i'd also have access to the professional stuff. i got the paint done today and it came out perfectly fine and the old paint thats been on for 5 years which sits on top of rustoleum primer is still sticking fine. its more about prep than materials from what i've learned from painting various things, even if its latex paint rolled on a wall in your house!

 

oh and i dont mix brands, and im not stingy on the reducers or hardeners. in fact i went out today and bought all new hardeners before i painted just cuz the weather changed a bit and i wanted to have the correct item for the job.

 

Next time drop the car off and pay a professional.

Admirable indeed, but do your research first. Then practice on other things. Then when you think your perfect, have a 30 year painter look at it.

If you have a gun, you can shoot primer. It may not be the set up, but it can be done. Research will show you that.

That doesn't mean you need to purchase it. Napa is not a paint store. If a vendor sells paint and Armor All, it's not a paint store. More research.

Give it to your girlfriend to remove her fingernail polish and leave it off the car.

This is a phone call. Again, more research.

Unless you live in the middle of nowhere,(I'm close to that and I have 4 dedicated autobody supply stores within 25 miles)you have access to the professional stuff. Additionally, don't ask questions that can be answered with a 5 minute search on the internet. Make sure you're using a good source. www.acetone.com is not the place to go for your surface prep information.

I'm guessing that your definition of perfect and mine are polar opposites.

Ladies and Gentlemen(stepping up on my soapbox) it behoves you to do proper research and practice before diving into painting. Painting a car can be very expensive, so you want to make sure you are getting every dime's worth of satisfaction out of your paint. Purchase cd's, read a book, watch a painter, ask a painter, if he's old, he knows more than you and more than likely won't mind a few INTELLIGENT questions.

Racer, the best thing for your car right now would be to strip the entire thing and start fresh. But don't do it untill you've practiced on a filing cabinet, a old fridge, something OTHER than a third gen.

 

Logically it seems kind of fishy that you have to wait 24 hours. I don't know many pros that can wait that long at that stage of the job and stay in business. Some of the stages yes (maybe epoxy and final), but not at that point.

 

FWIW I paint for a living in a factory, done many cars at home.
I have had good luck with ppg's dx precleaners- never wait. (if i have to wait I just have to clean again, viscous cycle and car will never get done) ha this is a joke!

I never use anything that not catalyzed (chemically) hardened. That air dry stuff will clogg your paper when blocking, and re-wet when you apply top coats and suck the other stuff out and leave a spot ect...

I use the 2k primer/sealer alot, is not cheap but neither is a repaint...

 

Rustoleum really? And its not your gun unless it wasnt cleaned well. Heres a pointer, dont listen to people at napa auto parts about paint.if they knew how to paint they would be making alot more money. Go to you local paint shop and pickup some good wax and degreaser. It will set you back 20 bucks. One day for it to dry is insane. 2 minutes and im spraying panels. You dont always need sealer.mainly over spots that were sanded with 320 or that may be different colored so you dont have to apply extra coats for coverage

 

ok guys, i dont know what kinda primer youre able to find at a paint supply store, but when i used primer in my paint gun last it sprayed in clumps of paint. i called the store (reputable paint supply store that sells paint to surrounding body shops.....which is the paint supply store that i got my paints from, not napa, they were the ones i got the surface prep from cuz they sell paint - martin senour paints - and the owner who paints his car is the one i talked to) and they told me that i need a specific primer tip for primer spraying RESEARCH!!!!!!

when i called the COMPANY - REASERCH! -they told me that surface prep takes 24 hours to fully air dry because it has a chemical reaction with the pre-existing paint to dry. and that acetone (for people who use it) takes 48 hours cuz its petroleum based.

oh and im not going to take a car i have done all the work myself with and bring it to a paint shop and let them do it. i have painted this car before and not had an issue like this before. this is my 5th time painting a car, i know generally what im doing. yes i have a few questions to ask on this site because this site was developed for questions...so forgive me for asking questions on a website developed for it. do you go to the drivetrain section of this site and if someone say has a question about installing a summit brand rear diff and tell them "oh pay a professional, and get richmond gears and pay a professional, you dont know what youre doing" like a d-bag? im sure you dont, but now you have more sections to act like a douche now dont you?
and i'd like to add that directions are directions are directions. when putting something together (say a swing set) would you read directions that tell you how to do it? or call up a contractor and say i have a question how do i put this together? and then pay him to put together a swing set cuz youre too lazy to do it yourself or because you have 2 questions? i sure hope not. i have done plenty of research. i had one question as to why the paint was messed up, i dont really need back seat advice on how to paint my car. unless you want to bring yourself to NJ next time i have any work to get done on this. next time i'll ask my father (30 year ASE mechanic) instead of asking anything on this body forum cuz i really dont want back seat advice.

thanks for the people who answered my question without 'oh well the reason why your paint turned into stripper is cuz you used primer from a spray can' and actually tried to solve my problem. i will continue to use rattle can primer to repair a section that is no larger than an a-pillar or to patch an area on a panel that is no larger than 2 inches.

again thanks for everyone's advice.

 

This does not work in all paints and should ONLY be 1-3 drops per mixed quart. There is no reason to even use it 98% of the time.

 

oh and by perfectly fine i mean i perfectly fine A$$ HOLE!

you honestly need a cd to figure out how to paint a car? really? youre really retarded you know that! yes ive read books when ive needed to, ive conversed with body shop professionals as well as weekend warriors when it comes to questions when i painted this the first time. i'll be sure not ask you for advice because all you know how to do is be a dick about everything.

how about you worry about your own car next time. i've done plenty of research and i've talked to reputable body shops the first time i painted this about types of primer, they said which ones were good to use and which ones not to use. been told that most rattle can primers are fine. and yeah sure, you can come here and strip my car down and repaint it. you can pay for it too! i hope you take your car and wrap it around a pole cuz its people like you (the kind with an obnoxiously dick bag attitude) that this site doesnt need. take your car and shove it up your *** and im sure you'd smile and enjoy it.

oh and i have asked intelligent questions, you have had no intellligent answers. an intelligent answer would have been on what caused the paint to run off like stripper was on it, not say 'oh your primer is whats wrong'...cuz obviously you dont know how to paint a car becuase two paints will not react that way, but i guess your research never got you that far did it? i dont think cd's cover that.

yes i know the best way to do paint is to empty your wallet and buy a vented paint booth with heat lamps and a 500 dollar paint gun and the most expensive paint and primer, maybe i'd do that if i was a millionare. i am an ordinary joe who works 8p to 4a and has no choice other than to wait for a nice day to paint my car in my back yard with whatever difficulties may lie in the way, and without making due with what i can. maybe i could have saved a couple years to buy a better paint gun and the $225 a quart paint that i originally wanted and sanded the car, then painted it then sanded it then more base coat then sanded it again then clear coat and then sand it then more clear coat then sand then more clear coat. and then the first time i park it anywhere i get a scratch then strip the whole car again. that would be a fantastic idea. heres a clue, walk in someone else's shoes for once.

you officially took an enjoyable part of the car, painting it by myself and feeling proud about my accomplishment, and made me feel like an *** for asking any questions at all. thank you for ruining this for me, i'll remember this experience next time i go to ask any questions at all on this site.

 

thats about how much i put in, i used it as a precautionary measure. only went in on the first coat

 

. fixed typos... damm on screen keyboard

 

even so, it can cause the prob in incompatible paint. you're basically adding silicone into your paint.

 

ok, i was always told by painters that if i got fish eyes and it messed up id have to wait for it to dry and then sand it so its best to add it anyway for the first coat.

hopefully this is my last time painting this car now that its not my daily driver

 

That is true but, you will only get those if you have an oil/wax under your primer or, have gotten it on top of your primer/ sealer.
Oil will wick back through regular primer (spraybomb/lacquer high build) if you didn't previously get rid of it. Sanding alone will not remove wax/grease/oil. Primer is tolerant of that but, it doesn't seal it out. That is somewhat the purpose of a sealer or 2k primer that can be topcoated.

 

not that it matters much now that the paint is done, but what exactly is 2k primer. ive tried google searching 'what is 2k primer' and just found a bunch of ads for it

 

it's a stupid way of saying 2 part. its primer (your solids) and a catalyst (hardener), 2 parts. still uses a reducer as well.
Kind of like your 'low VOC' acrylic high build primers are still just sh-tty lacquer primers but, they use a 'general reducer' (acetone) to make it low VOC. But, that's a different subject.

 

oh ok....thanks for the info. i'll recomend it to my dad when he does his monte carlo up! gotta find a color first though lol