As has been stated before, have fun with that. It's going to be a nightmare. In fact, I believe you stated so YOURSELF a few pages back...

Try telling that to somebody running a built stroker, a big cam, a nice set of heads, or anybody that is tired of running out of juice at 5k rpms. The shortcomings of TPI are very well documented, and have absolutely no place in this thread. GET BACK TO TOPIC.

Look at who's winning the open COTM competitions. They aren't factory all-original untouched cars. The cars garnering the most amount of excitement and respect are the highly modified (and still nicely done) restorations. The numbers don't lie. Strangely enough, they all have nice paintjobs too.

 

None came with regular non-cc carbs. So all carb conversions that we are talking about are illegal. I wouldn't bet on the LS swap, you might be surprised. I'm not trying to take it off topic, just trying to keep the truth flowing and to explain what I meant.

To keep it on topic, which one of those mods should I do to my low mileage original car to increase its value? The only one that might help is to repaint and even that scares off some collectors. The truth is that any mod I do to my car lowers its value, none that aren't restoring something to factory condition will raise it.

 

COTM means something? How many unmolested nice original cars are there left? Do you think that has anything to do with it? All anyone has to do is go to e-bay or anywhere else and see what pulls in the most money when they go up for sale. It's really a no-brainer. You're the one that keeps arguing your points off topic and then demanding that I not respond. Good luck with that control tactic.

 

It's not a restoration if it's also "highly modified", it's just a build. Restoration means something completely different. Try convincing Scott M. that his car would be worth more modified or the guy with the last third gen, try him. This is ridiculous and I'm now done with it. Have a nice day.

 

Yes, because I brought up carb conversions, emissions legality, and transmission swaps in a budget paint forum discussion... Oh wait, that wasn't me.

If you're trying to make money off of your 3rd Gen, you'd better sell it before you ever spin another wrench on it. It's a diminishing return investment that will never give back the amount of money you'd put into it. If your car actually was in showroom fresh condition, you'd be best advised to not touch it.

I tell you what. Convince SpikeZ to put his car up on eBay against yours and see which one brings more cash. Neither one of you would, because you're not building these cars as an investment. You're building them to have fun, and most people at least on these boards would agree that his is a lot more fun. Get over it. Adding a terrible paint job isn't going to increase the value of your car. Some tasteful modifications might. The latter certainly has no place in the "Body" forum.

 

No, it wouldn't... to the masses it's just another 3rdgen. It's not classic or sought after. You love it or you don't. A high price will require a vary spcific buyer. An IROC is just not that kind of car. Paint is not going to change that.

My car is a SALVAGE, it's lucky to be getting paint or UMI parts at all! I will never get what I paid in a sale.

 

Scott M's car is completely original and in beautiful condition. You'd have to be absolutely raving mad to tear apart a car like that. You'd be even more stupid to treat it to a rustoleum paint job. His car doesn't need a paint job though, nor does it need anything else. If you're car does need a paint job, you're a lot better off with a simple single stage job than a rustoleum rattlecan job, in both appearance and value. End of story.

 

Two cars with equal modifications, one with a nice paint job and one with a rattlecan rustoleum paint job. The nice paint job will bring more money every time, it's simple common sense. Most people don't want to spend thousands of dollars to drive around in something that looks like junk. From a value standpoint, you'd be better off leaving the bad paint job for the next owner to deal with than covering it up with rustoleum. Choices like that are going to make potential buyers wonder what else you've tried to cover up with cheap fixes.

That being said, with a salvage title, you shouldn't be considered with value at all. Again, you're building the car for your own enjoyment, not resale value.

 

I didn't say one bad word about the original poster. I don't blame him. I posted with the assumption that he wasn't fully aware of other options available to him, and I'd like him and anyone else that happens upon this thread to know the middle of the road option that is available to them.

I also don't appreciate that you and Afremont will choose one very minor part of a post and make that the new subject of your argument. "a little" was hardly the point of my post that you quoted, but that's the part you cherry picked to argue. Just as the suggestion that if you really want to pinch the pennies, you can use a piece of wood instead of a purchased sanding block became the center of the argument for Afremont againt Cal30_sniper.

I see no point in continuing to post since you will continue to pick small bits of what I said and argue them as if they were central to the conversation. I figure those who care to read through this whole mess of a thread will now have enough information at their disposal to make an informed decision, no matter which direction they choose to go.

 

I think all this has gone waaay to far. I'm not really picking at you personally, but there are a lot of others. lol!

 

First off, I wouldn't do any of those things so you might rethink your pronoun selection.

Secondly, MYCAR* would be best off with the DBC and the high solids clear I mentioned before. In terms of anything.

* MYCAR: a 1990, single owner, highly documented, extremely original, 26K mile L98-G92-N10 car that was never wrecked, has near perfect interior (1" dash crack and slightly sun-darkened dash badge), all power options, custom cloth seats and door panels, and had never even had a buffer on it, ever, yet the paint flew off after too many texas summers so now it's a worthless POS apparently, at least in this thread.

 

I agree, my car got more than it deserves. However, in my area a 1-3k paint job will increase the price of sale. but not by much on a IROC and it certainly would not sale for more than a LS swapped IROC (even with a bad paint job).

Ppl are not willing to spend 5k on an IROC out here, so if your asking for 8k... it's going to be a tuff sale. They seem to be more interested in a fast car that will be fun to run into the ground, that's why there are so many of these at the junkyard.

 

Jeremy,

I can see where blake was coming from in that respect, the OP did get bruised up pretty good. I think he meant the pinata comment more as a sort of comical remark rather than an attack on what you had to say.

The information is both here and in many other places describing how to pull off a good budget paint job. I have a feeling this will be the thread to reference on that topic for a while around here. I think you summed up the options involved with this choice very well.

Afremont made a lot of very contradictory, misinformed, and wishy-washy statements in this thread. I got tired of him constantly denying the existence of a budget paint job, and decided to bring out the information he kept asking for. You see how that went. Anybody with half a brain can see that very decent results can be had on a tight budget. The results are all over the net to prove it.

Anyways, from here on out I'll just leave this and let it fill in for what most people currently have to say on the budget paint topic.

It's a whole lot easier than keeping at it, and nets the same results.

-cal30sniper

 

This is the cleanest IROC i've ever seen! I wouldn't remove a single bolt! But I also don't expect it to turn over too much profit. It's going to have to become a classic first.

 

Holy crap man, it's a hypothetical "you". Get over yourself.

Great job on the low miles single owner car. You'd still be hard pressed to get even 10k on today's market for it. Less than that with the bad paint issues yours has. Guess what, you've got way more invested in the original purchase price + interest + tied up capital - the very little actual use you've gotten out of it (low miles). No doubt, it is fun for you, and you enjoy having a very original car. However, it doesn't make it that much more valuable in a field of cars that are basically worth nothing. You CERTAINLY won't ever make any money off of it.

 

That's BS. You never provided a complete list of any kind. I stopped updating my other thread when the cost was well over $300 and I've spent plenty more since then. I'm just shooting epoxy and prepping the car. I already told you what OEM quality paint costs, it's $600 for 3 sprayable quarts of base and clear. That's only OEM quality paint. You buy your single stage bottom of the line junk and see how it covers. There is a huge difference.

As for wishy washy, other people can paint however they want and it doesn't bother me at all. But I have my own definition of what's right, just like you. The only thing is, you don't want other people to paint however they want, you want to impose your idea of what's acceptable.

So there are several arguments here. One is that I defend the OP as it's his car. I wouldn't do it that way, that's why I don't like your cheap solution either and have said so. You think I'm making it too expensive, but I'm just telling you how to do it "right" by my standards. My definition of right is OEM quality. They didn't come with single stage bottom of the line paint shot on rattle can primer.

 

I think you touched on a big part of why we're not seeing eye to eye here, but it hasn't really been said. It's a bit of a chicken and egg argument.

If I'm reading you properly, you think that the IROCs and other 3rd gens need to be considered classics before they are worth greater investment (in paint jobs, etc.).

I think about it from the other direction, that if people treat their now 20-30 year old cars like classics (spending the extra time and money to do things to a higher standard), they will be recognized as classics.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think people fell in love with 1st gens or 2nd gens all over again because so many were on the road looking like beaters. It's because over time, there were less and less of them, and enthusiasts started investing more money into the remaining ones to make them look as good or better than new. There's no magic in the 1st gen or 2nd gen that isn't in the 3rd gen. It's just time, the work done by enthusiasts, and people's perception.

 

Sounds like sour grapes to me. I don't recall boasting about how much money I was going to make off of it. I don't recall ever even contemplating selling it. I did say I'd trade it for a '69 though.

 

well said! guess i'm just impatient, I wanna have my fun now!!

 

Being an old fart, I can tell you that interest is picking up in the old-fart generation. And what they want is clean, original cars. That means they want to see the emblems and open the hood and see the TPI. I'm picking this up from my neighbors and other people around town where I've lived for nearly 20 years now, but they've only started making noises in the last couple years. When people see these cars in decent shape, they flash back to that time period. There are allot of guys my age that want these cars, it's called having a mid-life crisis and wanting to relive the glory days. It is what it is and they want what they want. Prices will be going up soon for nice unmolested cars.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I agree with that. Over time the demographic that this car attracted has evolved. It's current state isn't so hot, but the future is looking up. And there are still low mileage cars out there tucked away, they will be turning up for decades to come. One thing that's saved allot of these is that when they crapped out for one reason or another, one by one they got parked. Fuel pumps are responsible for allot of parked cars, VATS probably parked a bunch and injectors that would run great for 30 minutes and then strand you probably sucked in a bunch more. There were so many made too.

EDIT2: I know they don't like this, but look even something like this can still be found:
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/3399804279.html
Restored, it's worth 55K The same will be true of IROCs and GTAs eventually. I was telling my wife how I'd trade my truck, my IROC and maybe my motorcycle for it. She couldn't see it.

 

If I may ask, how old are you? I'm about to turn 33 and I loved these cars as a kid. I wanted one sooo badly in high school, but was stuck with a 1989 Dodge Aries instead! I dreamt of a 1992 Z28 or 1988 GTA, but also salivated at the thought of actually owning a 1987 RS with a 305 or a 1985 SC with t-tops. I see most people of my age preferring modified/swapped drivetrains to keep up with or beat the 4th gens some of our friends have, but still having that classic style of the 3rd gen that we loved growing up in the '80s and '90s. I think there's a market for both original and modified cars that are clean and well put together.

 

dude screw these retards they are pissed because the still live in mommys house and are most are probably to fat and lazy to do something like what u did regardless of finish... good job man i rattled a couple sport bikes i have and everyone likes them other than hatin *** losers like the above

 

I'm 50.

 

I provided a list of everything you would need except for masking tape, newspaper, sandpaper, and time. That totaled up a little over $200. Since this information is now buried a page back under useless off topic information, I'll post it again for the benefit of all involved:

This will give you a durable, good looking paint job, equal in quality to the vast majority of cars that rolled off of factory assembly lines in the 60s and 70s (many of which are still running around with perfectly serviceable and decent looking factory paint). No, it's not an '80s BC/CC job, but seeing how afremonts factory paint job turned out, I wouldn't exactly call that quality either.

Would I personally paint my car for $300? No, my car budget is bigger than that now. But I have before, and it turned out immeasurably better than the OP's job. Granted, mine took a lot more time because I actually did a significant amount of prep work, but if you don't have time, then you're in the wrong hobby here.

You can use higher quality materials if you have the budget, but the OP clearly does not have that kind of budget. All I and many others have claimed throughout this entire thread, is that for $300, you can get a durable paint job that uses real automotive paint, and will actually be presentable on a car. You can't argue with that fact. That kind of a paint job might not be up to afremont's elevated standards, but for a kid in high school or college, or somebody scraping together funds to try and have fun with a car, it's the best option out there.

To claim that a middle ground between multi-thousand dollar BC/CC paint jobs and sub 100 dollar rustoleum paint jobs does not exist is simply ignorant. You can refuse to face the facts, but that's not going to make the many successful paint jobs that have been done that way go away. Nobody's expecting OEM BC/CC quality out of a budget paint job. They're just expecting a paint finish that's appropriate for an automobile instead of a piece of lawn furniture or your front porch. You can get that for around $300. Case Closed.

And for the benefit of all of us. Please either clarify your argument about why rattle can primer is worse than any other type of primer for a budget paint job, or shut up about it. You've already been asked that once. It was also mentioned in the same sentence that you could get HVLP applicable primer even cheaper than out of the can. You conveniently continued to ignore that fact to pursue your twisted line of argument.

Believe me when I say that I don't feel the least bit of envy for your "low miles, all original vehicle". I have a car that was in very similar condition to yours when I bought it (more miles, but no cracks, fading or other junk, and still completely original, not to mention its still wearing its paint). If that's what I'd wanted, I'd have kept it that way. Personally I like working on my vehicles, and I'm not too blind to realize that improvements can easily be made over factory to modernize them (for safety, performance, handling, and comfort). I also enjoy actually using the silly thing WAY too much to only drive it a thousand miles a year.

 

no need to take any of this personally

 

this might be the best post

 

I already covered why your list was incomplete, you chose to ignore those items I mentioned, why should I beat a dead horse. If you think you can paint a car that looks decent with the materials you listed, then you're the one mistaken. I stated that the middle ground paint job for me was OEM equivalent. That can't be done for $500, sorry.

Your only requirement is to not use rustoleum paint. You seem to be willing to accept shortcuts everywhere else in the process. Shortcuts that will ruin a good many paintjobs when done in there own home environments. Where's the logic in that? I understand you had success with your one low budget paint job, but I don't believe that would be most peoples experience if they followed your advice.

Rattle can primer is lacquer. Lacquer is the only paint you can put in a spray can and have any shelf life. No real automotive primer product is made anything like aerosol can primer. Glad you had luck with it and it didn't dissolve when you sprayed it with color.

EDIT: I will give a pass on spraying "good" paint over rattle can etch like from SEM or something. In small areas. Still taking a chance regardless, try some of your "recommended" single stage activated urethane paint over regular rattle primer and watch what happens. Mixing stuff like that is hit or miss, it's taking needless chances with the paintjob.

 

Great, then use the HVLP stuff I also mentioned. Heck, you could still get some pretty nice primer and still come in WAY under the $500 mark that has been quoted by several others. I wouldn't go that high for a budget job, but that's the drift. See how you're getting hung up on little details that don't really matter? If you use your OEM paint as middle ground, then a pretty crappy paint job would be completely acceptable. You don't see many people's single stage paint pulling off when you stick masking tape to it. Yours, however, does.

There's nothing inferior about using single stage paint. It was the automotive standard for years. My only requirement is not "not using rustoleum paint" as you put words into my mouth. My only requirement is something that looks like it might belong on an automobile, will last like automotive paint should, and isn't going to turn into a nightmare if it ever has to be taken off. You can do that for $300 if you're careful. You can do it for $500 very easily. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to waste my time going down to walmart for you and add up the cost of every roll of tape, every piece of sandpaper, and every pack of shop towels you'll need to complete this job. Any reasonable person can see that stuff is not going to cost $200+ to purchase.

You say I'm mistaken if I believe that, but I've shown you that I've actually done it. Not only I, but countless other examples of this kind of paint job exist on the web. Before you keep running off your mouth about how it won't work, maybe you should do some digging and find out the truth. Very few people actually strip their cars down to bare metal and start over from scratch. Most of them end up applying much more expensive paint than a single-stage job. I'm no special case, I'm just a patient guy who took my time and made the most of my dollars along the way. If I can do it, so can anybody else.

It may not be up to your elusive standards of OEM perfection, but if that was the standard that all paint jobs were judged by, we'd all have cars with the paint peeling off of them.

 

You also still haven't touched the fact that ANY paint job will need to use all the supporting painting accessories. Masking tape, sandpaper, paper towels, acetone, etc, all have to be calculated into the cost of a rustoleum paint job as well. What's really being compared here is the cost of Rustoleum paint (~$40) to single-stage automotive paint (~$130-170). For a paintjob that costs $90 to $130 more, you can get something that is much, much more durable, and looks great to boot. You simply can't argue with the difference there. If you're going to spend hours upon hours of your time doing a paint job that you're going to have to look at for years, there's no excuse for taking a $100 cut and getting terrible quality paint.

 

Good thread!!!

 

could always do a scuff and shoot job over the factory paint

SPI - Southern Polyurethane

SPI has epoxy, high build, BC and CC... it's is by far the cheapest and VARY high quality. If you have a compressor (or can get one) and a $15 purple HVLP from harbor freight an extremely high quality job can be done for $500 (take or give). They have a cult like following on chevelles.com

 

You have taken childishness to a new Internet level, congrats. There is no paint job done like you described that will last 20+ years, I don't care what quality paint you use. You see, it's the little details that really do count like real prep and real primer and real paint. I really didn't think I'd need to explain my OEM quality statement by specifically excluding the failure that occurred with my car. Why would you even suggest that my goal would be to have primer adhesion failure?

I've got a pile of real receipts that say you're wrong about the materials costs. $200 goes nowhere when buying from scratch the things you really need. But don't let that rain on your fantasy.

 

I keep seeing good things about SPI, especially the clear.

 

Oh my. Now you've gone from BC/CC is the only acceptable standard for YOU, to BC/CC is the only "real" automotive paint out there. What do you think they did for 70 years on cars before it showed up? You should be able to tell us, since you've apparently spent half your life in that era. If the factory paint on your car is still on after 20+ years, it's not going to magically start coming off all the sudden after you paint over it.

Yet again, you've taken the whole spray primer thing way beyond its context. If you feel like stripping the entire car to bare metal, then you're going to want to look into a high quality primer to cover the entire car back up again. If you're only covering a few spots of bodywork with it, and using the factory paint as a baseline for the rest of the car, then you're not going to need much primer at all. As I've already stated numerous times before, even good primer is not that much more expensive.

I guess you're not going to touch my statement about having to buy materials for any paint job. No, you'd rather overlook the facts, and act like there is some kind of massive jump between the cost of an el-cheapo rustoleum paint job and a budget single-stage paint job.

If you want your car to look like the day it rolled off the showroom floor, a $300-500 paint job is not going to get you there. However, if you want something that's respectable, presentable, and looks like a well cared for 25+ year old car should, then $300-500 will get you there quite easily. The OP's $100-150 paint solution (what it would have cost if he added up all the materials he used on top of paint), looks nothing like what you'd expect to see on a well cared for vehicle. Jeremy's diagram, though simple, summed that concept up very well. It's all about getting the most bang for your buck, and still having something that's worthwhile doing.

 

BC/CC is what they used, so it's what should go back in my opinion. It's also accepted that it's "easier" for beginners to use and fix learning mistakes. I don't know yet personally, but it's what I keep reading and hearing. It looks good, that's for sure.

If you're willing to spend $130 for a gallon of paint, you should be willing to at least spend the extra money to put down a good base for it. Your statement about paint not coming off after 20 years is obviously incorrect in my case. If I had painted over the part that peeled when I unmasked my roof epoxy prime job, it would still have peeled because nothing would make the base reattach to the factory primer that it never really stuck to from the start. Oddly it let me scuff it with the DA and didn't come off in flakes or act odd in any way. It just peeled when I unmasked. Glad I didn't find out at the car wash after putting something nice over it. Once bitten twice shy in my case, I'd strip any third gen, at least any painted at Van Nuys after 88 or so.

There's nothing to argue about the fact that you have to buy supplies for any paint job. It doesn't mean that you can just forget that expense to make an alternative method appear less expensive than it really is. I know that $40 was well below what the OP actually spent on consumables and paint. I'm not defending the OP's decision to paint his car the way he did, just his right to do it.

I still think a beginner might get more bang for the buck by going with a BC/CC approach. I say that based upon what I've seen people do on their first attempt with it. I've been amazed, so I believe. I know single stage can look good, though to compare modern activated single stage urethane paint with the acrylic enamel or lacquer they really used back in the day is apples and oranges so you can't really expect similar performance over time.

 

There are a bunch of cars on TGO painted with it. Have a search! Vary nice stuff, cheap for what it is too. They seem to have developed this line of paint for the DIY crowd (price reflects it).

 

Well, I've followed this thread to its inevitable conclusion. Now its just an old fashioned pi$$ing match that is getting just a bit too personal.

The OP is long gone from the thread and most likely won't come back after getting beat around by almost everyone that posted after him. And he was proud of the way his car looked and the work that he put into it to make it look that way.

You guys can't and won't agree to agree on what's the right way to do it and what isn't, because as always, there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

I personally don't have the time or talent to paint my own car, so I will take it and have it painted. As I have already stated, I can spend $1300 to $8000 to achieve the results that I desire.

As the art of painting a car is constantly evolving with new materials and techniques, I think it might be a lot more productive if the ones that can do the work (I know that some members on this forum do it for a living) would write some new tech articles on the current do's and don'ts of painting a car. And don't forget to throw in some of the reasons why you shouldn't use any paint other than paint specifically ordered for automotive use.

I could learn something from that and I'm sure that others would too.

Just don't forget that it's my car, not yours, and I'll do with it as I see fit.

 

That sums it up well. I apologize to the OP for the hijack. I don't want anyone to take my word for anything I put forth. If anyone wants to know whether primer color affects the end color or whether it's ok to shoot "good" paint over rattle can primer, just Google it up yourself. The truth is all right there.

Now I'll "shut up" and go back to work on my POS "junk" car with my less than "half a brain". I'll count my real costs with my real receipts and continue to plug away at my real painting project that I've got going. For anyone interested there's a thread about it and anyone is welcome to come and argue all they want with me, but logic and facts are the order of the day. Hopefully by this weekend the weather will have warmed up enough for me to spray some more real paint on my "poor investment".

 

I'm No expert but I think it looks better then primer down and the op did a good job No over spray and not everyone can afford to have a real paint job so don't bash if you want to paint it with finger nail Polish or wood stain lol it's yours and there are No laws saying how a car should or shouldn't paint it that's my two cents

 

fingernail polish! lol!

 

just saying No reason to bash anyone

 

Not a bad idea, I have tried numerous times to explain why a non-catalyst paint is not for automotive use, it gets frustrating. I think no matter what pissing matches were here from the begining, and will be here till the end (human kind not TGO) I tell people if you dont think I would love to spend $29 a gallon on paint I wouldnt? shops could make a fortune, Rustoeum type paint is for old swing sets and patio furniture and the occasional 12 year old who wants to paint his old bike. There are so many tech articles and manufacturer sites open to the public, the reason people dont use them is they believe (or need to) that they can save money on the product and get the same results. I bowed out of this thread a while ago, it is a waste of time for me, been in the automotive finish business for over 30 years. Like I said good luck to all those that take the wrong approach, and its the old saying; you get what you pay for.

 

 

Like I said... What did you expect to see coming into a "rustoleum" thread? If you would not have done it, fine. you don't agree, cool... why even post.

everyone, even OP knew it was the wrong way from the beginning. That much is obvious.

 

someone please lock this thread... some of the folks posting just don't get it.

 

Everyone has had their say...time to move on. I am

 

 

I have been a member of this forum for a long time and I have NEVER posted a comment. After reading all the back and forth controversy regarding the 50 dollar paint job, I couldn't resist.

Who is to say what is right or wrong? Those that can afford a few grand for a paint job, more power to you. Those that are getting by any way they can, hell go for it.

I don't understand all the back and forth, I say it's ALL GOOD.

Just enjoy your third gen the best you can and most importantly....have fun doing it!

Peace

 

You've been a member for a long time and have never posted, but you decide that the first thread you "need" to be a part of and make your first post to is a thread that died two years ago?

 

well, in this day when most body shops look at you straight faced and quote you $2500 and up, to paint your car.who can blame them? most ,but not all, have about that much in it. AND they all insist on using that two part clear coat crap.