I just want to know where the $3-5k paint job estimates are coming from? It might cost that much to send it to a shop and have them do every bit of the work, but we're talking about DIY paint jobs here, are we not?

When I was in High School, I scraped up $300 in savings and decided to repaint my '76 New Yorker. I bought a pawn shop paint gun, borrowed an air compressor, and loaded up on rattle can primer, sandpaper, and a little bit of bondo at the local body shop. I purchased single stage PPG white (in the original Chrysler color, not some rustoleum lookalike), hardener, and reducer, and a few tarps to help turn the carport into a paintbooth. I spent 10 months working after hours and weekends doing the prep work, and one day spraying the car. I ended up with a better than factory paint job, that had lots of shine, and wore like iron. Total cost: $300 and lots of elbow grease. THAT is doing it yourself. Using a bunch of spraycans to paint your car a generic off-brand color that will be lucky to last three years is just cheap. There's no reason to do that when good, quality, automotive paint isn't much more expensive. Not to mention, that I covered nearly twice the surface area of a 3rd gen doing that Chrysler on $300. A 3rd Gen should be significantly cheaper to do RIGHT.

As an aside, I sold that car when I graduated. I ran across it again a while back when I was home on leave. It had been nearly a decade since I painted it, and it had seen nothing but constant exposure to West Texas sun since. The paint still looked like the day I finished putting it on. Try that with a rustoleum job.



-cal30sniper

 

On the other side of the fence, the same summer I did that car, I woke up to a weird noise coming from across the street one morning. I looked out the window, and the neighbor was painting his Astro Van Pepto-Bismol pink with a Wagner Home Power Painter. He then rattlecanned the bumpers flat black and silver. Needless to say, he had to keep repainting that car every couple of months, and it looked absolutely awful.

Which would you rather be?

 

sem interior panel paint works very well we use it at work

mind i just rattle canned a car as well but currently only need it to hold off the rust dont really care how it looks here is my 10 dollar paint job on a 34k mile car lol,
but its just to keep the rust off till my dad has it painted
it atlest looks better then it did and mind you i used a matte finish paint so im not to worried about gloss or fadeing i also only painted areas that needed rust removed and i didnt want primer absorbing moisture
just noticed in the before pic it still had the factory eagle vr tires

 

If you can't afford to do it correctly, do not do it. I had always assumed that was common knowledge for the mentally healthy people on this planet. It may look good (cant trust pictures from 20ft) but long lasting, protective, resistant? I doubt it. It sounds cold but honestly, cars are not a hobby for the poor. Back yard hot rodding is awesome and most everybody can afford the parts spread out over a long enough time. But there are also these thing called bills....and a lot of car enthusiast don't quite understand this. And then this **** happens.

 

i think of it like this it was rattle can it in the meantime or let it keep rusting away so far the 10 dollar rattle can job has held off rust now for 2 years
honestly saveing the car from being scrapped
dads one of those guys who will let something rot out in the driveway even when it had 17,000 miles then drove it only in winter as a back up car
but now it has 33k on it and now its protected better then bare metal and gm primer

 

You guys can be dicks all you want about it. Like I said If I would've posted the pics and not told you it was rattle can than nobody would've known, if my paint was pristine I wouldn't of messed with it but it looked like **** so. Painted it and now it looks good its all about prep. Lastly I thought this forum was better than this

 

When you're right you're right. People acting like pro paint jobs are something anyone can afford. Even DIY costs a fortune now. To buy all the chems, preps, paints and post-paint stuff could easily cost over $1000. I think your paint looks good. I sure can't see anything wrong in the pictures.

To you guys that still have pristine paint, well good for you. I bought my car new and took excellent care of it. My paint NEVER had a buffer on it. It was always hand washed and hand waxed. Of course I couldn't keep it in the dark at 75F all the time, but it's a car. I did keep it in a garage as much as possible. I also covered it. Mattered not, the factory job peeled like a bad sunburn. If you guys don't have that happen, then count your blessings. When it starts coming off, there is nothing that you will be able to do about it. No amount of care or love will make any difference. So boast while you can, it won't last forever if you have a Van Nuys water job. And by the way, the parts of my paint that haven't peeled look just as good as anyone else' factory paint. Only I don't have any swirl marks, never did.

To you guys that had the gall to make fun of his house. Take a hike, nobody needs it, and it's not on topic. This is a forum about third gens. It used to be a forum of friendly people helping and supporting each other. Now it seems to be filled with people that have more money than decency. What happened?

 

...

 

This topic is about as controversial as cutting a access hole for the fuel pump. I guess I'm old enough to remember the old rat rods of the 50's and 60's. Back then paint was not of importance, performance was. My is, to each his own. People that live in a glass house, shouldn't throw stones??????????

 

You people act like doing it yourself excuses you from all claims to stupidity, and that is asinine.

 

That simply isn't true. It doesn't take a pro, or a thousand bucks, to get a nice paint job. It just takes time, motivation, and a couple hundred bucks in supplies. A Rustoleum paint job is nothing better than shooting yourself in the foot. You spend money on something that isn't going to last very long, looks mediocre to begin with, and is going to be a royal pain to get off again when you do decide you want something better (and if the car doesn't go to the scrapyard, whoever ends up with it is going to want something better). Long story short, if you absolutely have to do it because you are that hard up, then don't expect to be complimented or gain any respect in the automotive community because of it. Hot-Rodding, collecting, tinkering on cars, whatever you want to call it, is about doing quality work on a budget. There's no place in a collector car community for butchering and half-butted work.

Probably because at least some of us really don't want to hurt the guys feelings, but are genuinely interested in steering the others who might see this thread as a reference in a better direction. Obviously that's not the case for some people, and some are genuinely trying to run the guy off. I don't know what to say about that, other than the old adage "if the shoe fits, wear it" may apply here. That being said, I think he did a REALLY good job of a Rustoleum paint job, which is why I see it as a waste of time. The only place a rattlecan job has is as some members have posted to preserve the car long enough to get a decent paint job on it. Still, you have to do that knowing it's going to look terrible, and be awful to get off. If you're going to put time and effort into making something look good, and you're going to attempt to show it off and expect respect when you're done, you need to start with the best materials within your price range.



This picture shows it all. The coverage appears to be good, and it looks run free without any obvious spray marks (it's a nice monocolor, no weird offcolorings like you see with a lot of spray can jobs). But look at the paint itself. It's flat, it has no depth, and it has very little shine. It looks like a piece of lawn furniture, not an automotive paint job. Without hours, and hours, and hours of buffing (done on an annual basis as the cheap paint continually fades and oxidizes), it will continue to look even worse. The guy that posted the black trans am is one of the few I've seen that actually looks really good, but how many hours does he take to keep it looking good vs just using a quality paint to begin with? Time is money.

I'm sorry, but whatever you did with the headlight buckets and grille looks terrible. You can clearly see the spray can markings in the picture you posted. I don't know about the stripes because of the angle, but I hope they don't have the same markings. If I were you, I would go back and do them right, and then never mention to anyone you spraypainted your car. They might not notice, and just think it's a really bad factory job instead. I'm sure your car looks better than before, but you could have done so much better with just a little more.

-cal30sniper

 

That's because they both fall under the same category of laziness and bad decision making that lead to a wreck that nobody wants to inherit. The reason that our cars get so little respect, is because our community has a far higher percentage than most of people that think this kind of stuff is perfectly normal and okay. There's a difference between being a snob, and recognizing when something is cutting unnecessary corners and/or a terrible decision.

 

It is so true, a gallon of single stage paint costs over $150. That doesn't include all the other stuff. Go ahead and show me a list of materials that you can purchase for under $500 and paint a car. That includes a gun and a compressor too. It's one thing to have a gun, a compressor and a bunch of other stuff laying around already. It's another to start from scratch.

At any rate, I'm sure that Chip Foose thinks that you guys don't have a clue either and that everything you do is ruining a car. It's all a matter of perspective.

EDIT: Turns out you can get 1 gallon of single stage junk paint for right at $100. A gallon of base costs $150. Then you need primer, builder, sealer, adhesion promoter, reducer, and possibly hardeners, flex agents and clears of some kind. This is the stuff to do it right, is it not? We haven't even gotten to tools or consumable materials such as wax removers, sanding supplies, lacquer thinner etc...

 

I agree that cutting a trap door is lazy because it doesn't take any more tools or money to do it right. Painting does not fall into this category. No matter what paint someone chooses, someone else can always come along and say that it was a cheap way out. Single stage lacquer is lazy to somebody that likes base/clear or HOK or urethane. Painting an assembled car is lazy to somebody who does frame off restos. It's all perspective.

 

[QUOTE=cal30_sniper;5394866]That simply isn't true. It doesn't take a pro, or a thousand bucks, to get a nice paint job. It just takes time, motivation, and a couple hundred bucks in supplies. A Rustoleum paint job is nothing better than shooting yourself in the foot. You spend money on something that isn't going to last very long, looks mediocre to begin with, and is going to be a royal pain to get off again when you do decide you want something better (and if the car doesn't go to the scrapyard, whoever ends up with it is going to want something better). Long story short, if you absolutely have to do it because you are that hard up, then don't expect to be complimented or gain any respect in the automotive community because of it. Hot-Rodding, collecting, tinkering on cars, whatever you want to call it, is about doing quality work on a budget. There's no place in a collector car community for butchering and half-butted work.

No I agree my headloght buckets look atrocious in this picture, my stripes do not look like that DO NOT the reason the headlight buckets look like that is because the pain

Probably because at least some of us really don't want to hurt the guys feelings, but are genuinely interested in steering the others who might see this thread as a reference in a better direction. Obviously that's not the case for some people, and some are genuinely trying to run the guy off. I don't know what to say about that, other than the old adage "if the shoe fits, wear it" may apply here. That being said, I think he did a REALLY good job of a Rustoleum paint job, which is why I see it as a waste of time. The only place a rattlecan job has is as some members have posted to preserve the car long enough to get a decent paint job on it. Still, you have to do that knowing it's going to look terrible, and be awful to get off. If you're going to put time and effort into making something look good, and you're going to attempt to show it off and expect respect when you're done, you need to start with the best materials within your price range.



This picture shows it all. The coverage appears to be good, and it looks run free without any obvious spray marks (it's a nice monocolor, no weird offcolorings like you see with a lot of spray can jobs). But look at the paint itself. It's flat, it has no depth, and it has very little shine. It looks like a piece of lawn furniture, not an automotive paint job. Without hours, and hours, and hours of buffing (done on an annual basis as the cheap paint continually fades and oxidizes), it will continue to look even worse. The guy that posted the black trans am is one of the few I've seen that actually looks really good, but how many hours does he take to keep it looking good vs just using a quality paint to begin with? Time is money.
No the stripes DO NOT have is the only reason that the buckets do is because the paint was still wet when took the pic, I plan n redoing them.

 

Why is it that every time I tell someone they are doing things in a bad way, i.e. rattle can paint, cutting access holes for fuel pump, etc, I get attacked for having money? Who said I have money? Is that the perception of third gen owners? The people that take the time to do the job right the first time and are willing to spend just a little bit more to do it correctly, are wealthy? We do have a long way to go then in getting rid of the 3rd gen image. If our own members are playing class warfare, what should we expect from the outsiders?

I've mentioned before that hot rodding is cool and there are many nice cars that have been hot rodded. Camaros don't make for a good rat rot though! If that's your plan, you bought the wrong car.

In response to spending over a $1000 for everything to paint the car, again I disagree. I mentioned that you can get Duplicolor automotive paint for $28 for 32oz. If you're resourceful, you can probably find a friend with a compressor. You can also buy a brand new paint gun at Harbor Freight, not really quality but still better than spray cans, or you can buy one used at a pawn shop. Plastic isn't very expensive either. All materials I just mentioned are less than $250.

The picture that the OP posted to show his handiwork does look good from 30 feet away. However, look at the finish in this photo. You can already tell that the finish is uneven and won't look good three months from now.


The problem that we have is people are too lazy to take the time to do things correctly. I'm not saying that's this guys case, but in so many ways, people today want instant gratification and they aren't willing to wait the required time to do it right. Use the fuel pump issue. The guys that cut into the rear say it's now a 15 minute swap. How many fuel pumps do you plan on swapping out??!!! It took a couple hours to do it the way GM recommends. I have also seen people cut the wires for the power antenna when they need to repair it and then resplice them. The proper procedure is to remove the stereo, disconnect the antenna from the radio and pull it out of the fender with the rest of the wires. An extra 10 minutes worth of work and the wires get cut to avoid it?

Come on guys. You come to an enthusiast site with people restoring these cars or building them up into modified cars, etc and you think that you will be welcomed without debate over a rattle can paint job?

Lastly, my car isn't sitting in a temperature controlled garage either. I know, you guys think I'm rich because my car looks good, so I must be, right? My garage gets to over 100* because I live in Florida. It sits in there with the tops off and most of the time uncovered. Buy cheap products and you get cheap results. I use better polishes and waxes and I have no issues with my Van Nuys paint. That's not to say that it doesn't suck, but a lot of time and effort goes into it staying the way it is.

 

I didn't attack you for having money, never mentioned or implied it in any way. Cheap products? Are you saying that I used cheap stuff on my paint or didn't take care of it and that's why it peeled? Why would you even insinuate such a thing, you don't know anything about me or my car? GM wouldn't have repainted so many of these if the owner was the problem. How many 1990's with perfect paint have you seen lately?

EDIT: Yeah forgive me, I only used those Mequires products on my paint. I guess I should have known better. All I can say is that when you find your first flake or bubble, it's over. No matter what you do you can't stop the progression. Water wicks in and lifts the paint right up, no amount of waxing will stop it from progressing. The clear is still in beautiful shape, not like some cars I've seen where the clear came off. Hopefully your car is early enough that they used a better quality paint.

EDIT2: Scott, you can't paint a car for $200 even with finding a place to do it for free and having all the tools provided. If you're good, you could paint the car with four quarts. Could a beginner? You still aren't considering all the prep and finish materials. $200 just doesn't go far anymore, especially with paint stuff. It cost me over $200 to epoxy prime my truck hood and floorboard once I got all the stuff I needed, and I already had a compressor and tools.

 

you guys all sound ignorant.grow the f up. This is suppose to be grown men helping each other with cars. you all sound like bitches breakin nails.

 

afremont, I never said you used cheap products. I also never insinuated it. Relax! You yourself even asked in your last post, "Are you saying that I used cheap stuff on my paint or didn't take care of it and that's why it peeled?" Did you hear me say that to you or direct that at you? No. Don't keep attacking people. The attack is unfounded. My response about the finances is because of your comment about having more money than decency. I've heard others on here say similar when I comment about doing it correctly, or don't do it. The number one response to my comment is that they don't make as much money as I do. Nobody on these boards knows my financial situation, so comments like that are baseless. It doesn't take a lot of money to do a job correctly.

Also, I use Meguiar's and 3M products on my car also. I am also fully aware of the paint issues GM had over the years. I helped a neighbor repaint his '89 IROC-Z a couple years back because of the same issue. His car was garage kept and always waxed, but the paint burned. The car started having issues at less than 20k miles. The car now has 37k. I was only commenting that my car looks the way it does is because I use quality products on the car. If you use cheaper products, the final result will look cheaper. My comment was going for the, "you get what you pay for" theory.

 

And your response is contributing to this post, how? Again, strong words from a new member.

 

Funny quote. This get's worse than texting. All meaning gets lost, things get interpreted wrong, people get upset. Like my rat rod comment; I was only meaning that people do what they want. Who care's about any 80's third gen stigma. Some day, the few third gens left, bad paint or rust buckets, will be a real find for someone. If your 16, it's your first car, and you want to paint it however you want, so be it. In the 80's when these car's were new, there were a lot of bad paint rust bucket Camaro's around from the 60's and 70's. I don't remember anyone rippen on someone then???

 

I don't have a problem with the "you get what you pay for" theory as I subscribe to it myself. My comment about money and decency wasn't directed at you, it was more for the trailer comments.

Also I see that you have now edited your comments about the cheap results, note how I make edits to my posts so. Your original comment did seem to be insinuating that I didn't properly care for my paint, but now I just look like an a$$. We'll drop it for now, but from now on I won't make the mistake of not quoting.

EDIT: On second look, maybe you didn't change that specific remark. I apologize if I went off half cocked on that. But if it wasn't directed at me, I don't know who you might have been referring to. It doesn't matter anyway as I know I take proper car of my stuff and I don't use cheap products. The paint came off because of the materials. It started at 20K, though I'm not sure mileage had anything to do with it.

 

So when your paint starts coming off, you do a quality repaint on it, and don't worry about it for another 20-30 years. Is that so hard to understand? We're not debating whether your factory paint from 1990 looks good or not. All that's been stated here is that the OP's rustoleum paint won't look good even two years from now. Why did you even bring up Scott's car in the first place?

If you didn't want to sound like an "a$$" (your words, not mine), then why would you say something like that? The appearance of Scott's factory paint has absolutely no bearing on the original topic whatsoever. It was completely unnecessary to even bring it up.

1. You don't need a gallon of single stage paint to do a 3rd Gen. You might use half a gallon, MAYBE, if you're wasteful.

2. If you're working on top of good paint (which the OP was), you don't need to primer the entire car before painting it. You do the body work that's necessary, and primer anywhere you had to use filler, etc. Rattle-can primer works just fine, especially for checking high and low spots.

3. Paint, hardner, and reduce is going to run at the most $250 for good quality stuff. We're not talking base coat/clear coat, we're talking budget, single stage paint. It's been a staple of the do-it-yourselfer forever.

4. Single stage paint is not junk. It was the standard in the automotive industry for decades. This comment just begins to reveal your ignorance when it comes to painting a car.

5. Sandpaper, wax remover, acetone, etc is not expensive at all. Take a trip to Home Depot and stock up. Even if you were doing a Rustoleum paint job, you would still need this stuff.

Bringing Chip Foose up is just childish and irrelevant. Nobody here said we were going for show quality paint jobs. The point that has been made, is that for not much more than the Rustoleum paint job, you can do a good, budget single stage paint job that will be durable, look great, and actually get compliments rather than cringes when people see how it turned out. You can have something to be proud of and will be respected, or you can have something that's laughing stock for most car guys. What would you prefer?

 

As far as compressors or paint guns go, get involved with a local car club! There's a ton of older gents out there with full shops set up and ready to go. Every one I've ever met would be more than willing to donate their shop for a day or two to let a motivated and polite young man paint his car. Most of them understand the heavy front end costs that it takes to get into this hobby and do it right. That's why they're more than willing to help out. Not having a compressor or paint gun is no excuse for not borrowing one and doing it right.

 

I hadn't realized those were the same car when I saw the other thread before, but now I recognize it. Does this look quality? Before we go on telling people how great a paint job you can get with rustoleum, maybe we should show some more accurate pictures of the OP's finished product. I'm not trying to be rude here, but at least accurately represent what you've done.

 

The point of this thread is mostly about money. It costs allot of money to get a quality paint job even if you do it yourself. At least it costs hundreds instead of tens which is a world of difference to allot of people.

1. A half gallon huh even with having to remove all the gfx and paint them seperately? Or is it suddenly ok to start skipping necessary steps to keep the cost down?

2. Any of the fly away paint cars need stripped, not just resprayed. And if the car isn't one solid color, you can't get away with not priming anyway.

3. So even you admit that $200 is too low and you still haven't touched any of the consumables.

4. I didn't say that all single stage paint was junk, I said that you could get a gallon of junk single stage paint for $100. Big difference.

5. I know precisely what this stuff costs and it adds up allot faster than you are letting on. I've priced this stuff more than once.

I brought up Chip Foose to show how this truly is a matter of perspective. Do you honestly think that anything anyone is recommending would be acceptable to him?

I will not repaint my car until it can be done right. In the meantime I will do what is necessary to keep it from rotting away.

As for bringing up Scott, I meant what I said and nothing more. His profile didn't show anything more current than 10 years ago. I just wanted to know if it still looked that good. Is that rude?

Since you brought it up though, if Scott doesn't like people attacking him over being rich, he shouldn't continue to insinuate that all problems can be solved with pocket change. When he described how he cared for his paint with "better products" and commented that cheap products bring cheap results, how was I supposed to take that? Sounds to me like a definite implication that I got what I deserved for not using good products, yet he doesn't have any idea what products I've ever used.

 

I want to apologize to the list for blowing up so to speak. I tend to get real upset when social class derision becomes acceptable. I apologize to Scott, but I never had a problem with how much money he may or may not have. Wealth never bothered or threatened me in any way. I just think the world would be a little better place if everyone realized that times are tough and getting tougher for allot of other folks. When someone takes a less expensive approach, maybe it's all they could afford. Now maybe the chosen approach is not good enough for some of us, but it's really none of our business especially where money may have been the limiting factor.

I suspect that we all have financial limits of some kind; therefore, we all have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to how we're going to go about doing something to our cars. I think maybe we could all do a little better about keeping this in mind when commenting on someone's project.

As for things like the fuel pump access panel, personally I don't like it. I've seen some nice work, but mostly not. This is a case where money has nothing to do with it, you can't even whine about not having the right tools because it takes less common tools to cut the door. It's still a matter of personal preference. If someone wants to chop their car, fine; I won't be buying it in the future though.

Honestly, I'm surprised at the hostility that this whole Rustoleum topic brings. I never see anyone really gripe about a chopped up wiring harness (unless they bought it), or tossing numbers matching drivetrains. It's only paint and it will come off. It might be harder to get off than something else, but it will come off even if you have to blast it. Allot of these other "less offensive" mods really do have a negative effect on the long term value and can't be undone.

At any rate, I apologize again. I have opinions things and I tend to let people know what they are. I also tend to jump in and defend an underdog even if I wouldn't personally follow their example.

 

That picture isn't the finished product, there are no stripes.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by afremont

1. A half gallon huh even with having to remove all the gfx and paint them seperately? Or is it suddenly ok to start skipping necessary steps to keep the cost down?

Single stage paint goes a long way. I did three coats on that big boat of a Chrysler with 1/2 gallon. That means you should be able to do 4-5 on a 3rd gen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by afremont

2. Any of the fly away paint cars need stripped, not just resprayed. And if the car isn't one solid color, you can't get away with not priming anyway.

I'm just going by the crappy before pic that the OP put up, but the car was all one color, and the paint did not appear to be peeling off. You've got more than acceptable base for a new budget paint job on at least 50% of that car. The spots that aren't good are going to need body work anyways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by afremont

3. So even you admit that $200 is too low and you still haven't touched any of the consumables.

I didn't say it could be done for $200. I said $300, if you pinch pennies. Why did I say that? Because I've done it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by afremont

4. I didn't say that all single stage paint was junk, I said that you could get a gallon of junk single stage paint for $100. Big difference.

Point noted. You can buy enough quality single stage paint to do a third gen for $100. You just have to shop around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by afremont

5. I know precisely what this stuff costs and it adds up allot faster than you are letting on. I've priced this stuff more than once.

I bought enough sandpaper, spray primer, acetone, wax remover, dent filler, and bondo to paint that Chrysler for $150. Even if you spend $200 on paint, hardener, and reducer, that's still only puts you at $350 for the whole job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by afremont

I brought up Chip Foose to show how this truly is a matter of perspective. Do you honestly think that anything anyone is recommending would be acceptable to him?

I'm sure that Chip Foose would have no problem with somebody taking their timing and doing a budget single stage paint job on a collector car that came out looking nice. He might not look so kindly in the OP's efforts however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by afremont

As for bringing up Scott, I meant what I said and nothing more. His profile didn't show anything more current than 10 years ago. I just wanted to know if it still looked that good. Is that rude?

It was not only off-topic, but also could easily have been taken as very rude the way you phrased it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by afremont

When [Scott] described how he cared for his paint with "better products" and commented that cheap products bring cheap results, how was I supposed to take that? Sounds to me like a definite implication that I got what I deserved for not using good products, yet he doesn't have any idea what products I've ever used.

You should take that as the gospel truth. Scott said if that cheap products bring cheap results, and he couldn't be more right. He never said YOU used cheap products, he just said that if anyone uses cheap products, they will get cheap results. Sounds to me like you've got a burr under your skin and went on the defensive way too fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by afremont

The point of this thread is mostly about money. It costs allot of money to get a quality paint job even if you do it yourself. At least it costs hundreds instead of tens which is a world of difference to allot of people.

The overarching message here is that you've got to pay to play this game. If your auto budget is measured in tens of dollars, then restoring a 3rd gen Camaro or Firebird is definitely not for you. If those are your circumstances, and you're stuck with what you've got, then so be it. Spending even $40 on a crap paint job is a horrible idea if your budget is that tight anyways. Save up a little bit, and do it right, or go get something that doesn't require constant attention and funds. It's a hobby, not a necessity. If for some reason it truly is a necessity to drive a third gen and make constant shady repairs on it, then don't expect to post results up in a forum full of enthusiasts and get a bunch of compliments. And finally, if you're going to post up something, BE HONEST ABOUT IT. Misrepresenting a crap paint job by posting misleading photographs is even worse than doing the crap paint job in the first place.

There, that's the not so nice version of what I'm sure a lot of people have been thinking.

-cal30sniper

 

Great. Adding stripes doesn't change the state of affair present on every other part of the car. This is a post paint-job, pre-stripe photo.

 

I'm going to go out and take some pics of the car right now, the reason it looks like that is because it was 40 degrees that morning and there was a layer of frost on the car, you can see some frost on the Malibu and cavalier also

 

Yeah, I'm thinking that's why Chip has saved so many nice looking paint jobs instead of stripping them. That's allot of conditions too. Not too many first time paint jobs come out looking nice.

The simple fact is that everyone here makes compromises of some kind due to financial reasons. What is acceptable to you won't be to someone else, that will never change. What could change is this attitude on the list that seems so prevalent, that anything that is good enough for "me" is good enough for "you" and anything that isn't to "my" standards shouldn't be done. (where me and my are anyone that might be criticizing something)

Washed my car today, lost some more paint. I will not repaint until it can be disassembled (gfx off, glass out) and done "right". I might take the motor out to fix the horrid job GM did under the hood with the clear. I don't really need my jambs done or anything inside. Of course that still won't be right by someone else' standards because I didn't strip it down to just the unibody and remove every last fastener.

Now if that weren't true, wouldn't we all be doing it like Chip?

 

Here are some closer pics for the non believers. Keep in mind it's kinda a crappy day proof is in the giant mud puddle under the car

 

L03, I need to say welcome to TGO and don't run off because of the criticism. As a new member here, you might not be aware that this comes up from time to time where some of us are trying really hard to change the impression some have of the 3rd gen community. People still ask me where my muIIet is when they learn that I have an IROC-Z. They almost always follow that up with some comment about New Jersey. Ok. Maybe that's my problem. I grew up in NJ and some have said my old hair style was similar many years ago.

Now that these cars are 20-30 years old, we'd like people outside our community to desire them and appreciate them. I had to prove to an older person that the IROC-Z "IS" worthy of the Z28 monicker. This guy had a '69 Z and commented to me that it's an embarrassment that my car had the same name as his. He felt that his car was much faster and the '80s model was just a slow dog. I raced him down the highway and beat him. He has the original 302 in his car. After I beat him, he commented that he had no clue and can respect my car for being bone stock and able to beat his "muscle car". This is something else I have been very active in....proving that the muscle cars are no faster than our cars and all the praise the muscle cars get for being spectacular, isn't over blown.

I'm very active in promoting the third gens. I work with manufacturers to try and get them to produce replacement parts. Most comment that nobody wants to restore third gens, so they have no interest in reproducing parts for us. Usually, when they do, people on these forums complain that the parts cost too much. That doesn't help our cause.

I also work with magazines and book publishers asking them to represent us and add our generation of car to their lineup. It's really sad that the only magazine dedicated to Camaros, Camaro Performers, has an editor that also believes the third gens are garbage. Isn't that an insult from a Camaro only magazine? It shows his ignorance. He's an idiot.

My criticism is because I personally would love to see these cars outlast everybody else's and if they need repairs, let's do it correctly so we can prove that we aren't the "cheapest" class of people and these cars are really that great. Thanks for listening.

 

I wanted to add that I saw a guy coming down my street yesterday driving a '69. I flashed my lights at him and he stopped next to me. His car was beautiful. It was labeled as a 350SS and he claimed it really was and was original sheet metal, though he got the car from Wisconsin (rust belt). I went on about how nice his car was. He never said one word about mine not one question of any kind. Never even acknowledged that it was a Camaro too. Guess he doesn't respect the third gens either.

 

Factory paint, when cared for properly will outlast the engine. The problem is the average Joe does not know how to care for paint, never mind applying paint. Using these Auto-zone wax products is a waste of money, most do more harm than good (they have cleaners, and grit) you need to do a two or three step process when you detail your car. Use a good product get a good result, a lot of the Turtle Wax and such products back in the day would hurt BC/CC due to their harshness. Last time I used a store bought wax was 35 years ago, I switched to pro products and never looked back.

If you go to a pro for paint offer to do the grunt work, remove the bumpers, lights and trim. Do the prep work and then pay them for the final prep and paint to save money, you want them to final prep before paint to ensure the paint surface is ready. You can get a decent job this way for around $800-$1,500, all shops (good ones any way) will have a paint mix room, and they already have the product so the cost is not bad since we buy in bulk. I mean you can go spend $400 a gallon on clear for a show car finish, but most name brands have a lower grade PPG= Omni, DuPont= Nayson, both still far more superior to any Rustoleum product. I do not know any other way to explain the fact that without catalyst agents (reducer and hardener) paint will not hold up under the elements. You can argue with me until you are blue in the face but I have been in the automotive finish business since 1978, I have used lacquer, enamel and centari enamel and now BC/CC. The EPA will be now pushing to go to a water based system and that will be the new rage, Rustoleum is for old patio furniture swing sets and outdoor railings, not for cars. The cost is the cost; I started my first business we ate hot dogs or macaroni for years to make ends meet, never put any money into my own car. I know being young and broke sucks, it does not last forever and things do get better. My point is don’t spend money you do not have, but worse yet don’t do it cheaply just to do it, it end up costing you in the long run.

 

What do you think of the new water based technology? I know what I think of the late '80s version of it. I could see, that given enough time, technology should prevail and somebody should be able to make something that lasts. Will it?

 

I have not sprayed it yet, I have heard mixed reviews but I plan to attend a demo in the beginning of next year. I have read a ton of material and seen a video, a PPG supplier is doing the demo in Feb, will know more then.

When we went to BC/CC everyone was skeptical so... the cost will be huge to switch over, you are talking about re-supplying your entire mix room

 

You got to admit the clean up will make it worth while, don't you think? BC/CC sure did look nice, but it was so easy to damage. Modern paints seem to hold up much better than back then, though. I'm no painter. I have a friend that used to paint and I've read allot about it trying to psych myself up for doing it. I just can't bring myself to do it though, I want my car to look better after painting it and I don't have the confidence to even try yet. I've done some primer and epoxy primer, but that's it no real top coats.

I've sprayed water based polyurethane on an aquarium stand I built. Turned out nice and clean up was awesome. Seems to be holding up well with exposure to water. Cleaning up epoxy primer is for the birds.

 

Not really, you will need to add a powder into the machine (I use a gun cleaning machine now) the powder can be used up to I blieve 10X. But you will still need to recycle that powder when its over, I guess Safety-Kleen will be going that route soon. The big issue will be getting 200 FPM airflow in the booth, either stand type blowers or a down draft booth with a flash feature will be needed. Either way it will be expensive, the gun for WB will require a 1.2 - 1.4 tip for your base and can only be used on the WB product. I use a Devilbis gun now, but may go to Strata if this is the road I choose. The coverage coat require about 26 PSI and the control coat will be 14-16 PSI, I have read up on it and need to see a demo. The flash and cure times will be radical so there will be new eqipment and lots of training, cure and flash times are the key to a product laying down nicely.

 

Wow, leave it to engineers to complicate the process like that. I was thinking that it would be a much safer to handle product, but that doesn't really sound to be true. Painting in the garage or driveway is sure going to be tough with those kinds of requirements.

 

Well said! Its your car, do whatever you want with it and ignore the comments about whether its right or wrong.

 

Glad you took the pic with your reflection in the window but not in the paint, there is no depth to that paint. You can rub untill the paint comes off the depth will never be there, you can paint a car with any rattle can to protect it from rust. But it will never compare to even a basic Macco job, no comparison in the two finishes.

 

Sorry to cross post, but this is the crap that I have a hard time dealing with. If you thought I was hard on you guys for the paint, check this out. I think I need a break from this place if this is what we'll continue to see from the next generation of enthusiasts.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/inte...under-5-a.html

 

Scott, I'm 24, and I think I speak for at least some of my generation when I say that not all hope is lost. From what I understand, the 2nd gens went through this 15-20 years ago, and they finally made it out of the weeds alright.

Here's to hoping the third gens can too.

-cal30sniper

 

And as bad as it sounds, every third gen that goes down the drain makes the really well done ones that much more unusual. I can't count the number of times that people have said "wow, you actually have a really nice third gen". I'm sure it's even more so with your car being completely original and in amazing condition.

 

Not bad, but I'll never do a rustoleum job. You won't get that clarity like you will out of a base and clear. For the amount of time & labor required to do things properly - there's no reason NOT to spend a few hundred bucks on halfway decent paint/clear and use that instead. That's just my opinion, though.

 

Cal30, I was 22 when I bought my first new car, a 85 Z-28, I cherished it until the day I sold it in 1988 for the 350 GTA with a digital dash. I loved both those cars and that is why I am such a 3rd gen fan, it was the car of my generation I hope you are right and that is the path we are on.

 

No they didn't. Junk then, junk now. '70-'73 doesn't count.

 

I seen that earlier. Wasn't going to say anything, but your right That has to be one of the cheesiest cup holders with screw in the consul i have ever seen. What can ya do????