Last Saturday evening an elderly couple backed into my '87 T/A while it was parked at a gas pump. They were parked perpendicular to me in a space just ahead to my right. When they backed out the driver made a very shallow right turn and he hit the passenger side corner of my front fascia leaving a vertical line of paint damage from top to bottom. I'm guessing he was traveling at two or three MPH when he hit, but I can't be sure. It was enough to cause my car to lurch backwards and bounce off the transmission park pawl. I could not identify any crumpled or crinkled sheet metal, but the forward top of the fender looks low to the headlamp door, and it's flush on the opposite side. Because the fender to door and hood gaps otherwise look OK on the passenger side, I'm not sure if that low spot at the front edge is just a bad factory fit I perhaps did not previously notice or a result of the impact. Also the gap where the bottom of the fascia meets the ground effects seems a tad “A” gaped, but again, that could be a poor factory fit or even my imagination. The doors and hood all open and close OK, as well as the headlamp doors. The lamps all still illuminate, including the fog lamp that seems closest to the point of impact.


Although the damage appears superficial and cosmetic I'm concerned about what I may not be able to see. I do not know what happened beneath the fascia, to the honeycomb absorber pad and/or impact bar, or beyond. I do not know if an impact like this, at that speed and angle, could have tweaked the body, frame, sub-frame, suspension or whatever? I will mention the rear hatch was open and up and the driver door ajar when the car was struck for any difference that might possibly make. What should I be concerned about as a result of this impact?


Unfortunately this happened right after the sun went down and my iPhone could not capture a good pic of the damage. Will have to take some better shots in the sunlight. In the first pic the car that hit mine is the white Avalon on the right. That's the same space he backed out from. How he managed to hit my car with that much available space to maneuver I cannot understand.

 

sorry that happened. thankfully nobody was hurt. Are they aware they hit you?

 

Thanks. No injuries other than having the emotional wind knocked out of me (I really love this car). I had just put the gas cap back on when the car lurched backwards, startling me. I did not see it coming. It took me a second to realize what occurred. The driver immediately hopped out to make sure I was alright. We looked at my fascia and he asked me if I saw any damage. I told him there was clearly paint damage, and he said "That's just a scratch!" That's when I told him I needed a police report and I called the authorities. I was very upset, but I kept my cool throughout. The couple's daughter showed up and I started to get the vibe they thought I was going to try to take advantage of the situation. I only want to protect my interests. Sheriffs deputy arrived and did not want to issue a police report because he did not feel there was $1K worth of damage. I told him repainting the fascia alone probably costs more than $1K, and I have no idea what was damaged behind the fascia. The deputy reluctantly made the report. My insurance agent was surprised the deputy didn't want to issue one.

From this pic you can see how much room he had available, but yet he managed to find my car with his. I wonder had I not been parked there if he would have backed into the pump?

 

i think your probably okay on this one. some buffer time and it should look like new

 

dude that sucks! yeah i think it should buff out also, but it still bugs me how people think "its just a car". and to them maybe it is, but hell he hit you and to you its NOT just a car! good luck man!

 

Yeah...... A scratch that wasn't there before your stupid azz backed into it !!!

And a word for that Sheriff, Just shut up and DO the job I'M pay'n YOU to do !!!

Sorry...... I get PO'ed quick when it comes to my vehicles, Glad it wasn't much worse.....

 

Thanks, I really hope so!

That was the toughest thing to try to relay to the guy who hit me, his daughter and the deputy. That this was NOT just a car to me. It’s not my daily transportation appliance. It’s my hobby that I’m passionate about.

I’m a pretty easy going guy. I let a lot roll off my sleeve in life. If this had been my old ’94 Audi that I drive everyday, which is covered with this kind of damage from people bumping into it over the years, I probably would have told him not to worry about it and have a nice life, but this time it was my T/A. I wanted this car since I was 14, and 30 years later I got it. Took me a long countrywide search to find this car. The right year, color, features, options, but most of all condition. 64K miles, garaged 100% stock/original, well maintained, and believe it or not, never driven in the rain! Lol. This car was indeed a “survivor”, and that’s what made it special to me. Now it has a neg in its history, even though minor. That’s what’s making me so crazy.

I appreciate that you guys feel my pain for sure.

While waiting for the deputy to arrive they saw me checking panel alignments around the car, fit, functionality, taking a ton of pics from many angles, etc. I started getting the vibe from them that they thought I was trying to build a bigger case than it was to attempt to take advantage of the situation. All I was doing was being thorough. This is the same procedure I have to use in my line of work when this sort of thing happens. Because of this vibe that I was getting that the guy who hit me was starting to try to play the victim I tried to speak up in the end just as the deputy was ready to leave. I wanted to say “Look, I’m not out to take advantage of anyone. You hit me, and I just want to be sure my interests are protected when it comes time to file the claim”, but before I could get that out the deputy interrupted me and yelled “I’m not a mediator!” Then he firmly asked me “You wanted a police report, right?” and I said yes, so he replied “Well you got what you wanted!”, so I walked away. Amazing that I get hit and those involved try to make me look and feel like the bad guy. And again, I never lost my cool, nor was I ever impolite. Ridiculous.

 

I would just contact his insurance, drive the car down and point out that "limited edition" emblem on your headlight and they are sure to give you a minimum of 5K.

Just a car man thats what insurance is for, besides damage looks minute why would you waste police time over that?

 

I know those urethane flex bumpers can conceal damage. In the event the damage is worse than it appears I have the incident formally documented. I’d rather find myself in a situation where I have more than I need than not enough when dealing with insurance or potential legal matters.

My insurer is State Farm. There is a page on their website entitled “What To Do After an Auto Accident”. One of those things they suggest to do immediately after an accident is: “• Call the police, even if the accident is minor.” I did, so I'm unclear on how that's unreasonable. As far as wasting a LEO’s time, accident investigation is one aspect of their job. I’m confident his agency prioritizes calls. Had a more pressing matter that required his attention surfaced I’m sure he would have left to address it, and I would have understood. I will not apologize for taking reasonable steps to protect my interests.

 

Simply said....it's called CYA

 

If the scratch doesn't buff out it should still be an easy fix. I'd be very surprised if the estimate is over $400.

 

When some say's it just a car, remind them that it's a classic car, Almost an antique.
Something I would be worried about is the transmission since it was in park and was forced to move. It needs checked out.
Also since it happened at a gas station you should of seen if they had video of the accident. As most gas stations have cameras at and around there pumps.
Lastly when you go to pick up the police report, file a complaint against the officer. They are there to do their job not giving people grief for doing what all insurance companies tell you," you must do in case of an accident".
And since you have State farm make your claim asap so they get things going, Sometimes they like to take their time when it comes to a claim.

 

i second this ^

 

Thanks for all the good advice. The claim has been made.

The transmission did cross my mind since the park pawl was the piece that took the hit from the energy of the impact. What worries me is I have a tranny that the previous owner did not service during the 20 years and 22K miles he owned the car. Many feel if a tranny has not been serviced in that length of time, or longer, you could do more harm than good by disturbing it. Plus I know 700R4s are not the strongest in the first place. I'm a little apprehensive to want to poke and prod at mine since prior to this incident it was behaving well.

 

I love these threads

The deputy was right, the damage appears to be under 1k which means no police report needed.

The insurance company will probably give you $500 for paint and blend time, which is what the damage is from the pictures. The argument of the car moving and the transmission being damaged is somewhat amusing, and will fall on deaf ears.

I used to do a lot of insurance work. I've reviewed on vehicles that were rear ended at 30 mph, and the insurance company would only pay for a used bumper cover, trunk lid, paint and blend time totaling $1500.

-- Joe

 

You pay the sheriff's salaries? Wow, you must be a 1%er paying hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes every year. That's crazy!

I only pay around $65,000 per year in taxes as a whole, and I figure with the average public safety budget in a county being in excess of 2 million dollars all I'm paying for is maybe a few mops in the custodians closet.

-- Joe

 

My hubby is in auto body repair field. State Farm is hands down one of the best companies to work for, and they will go to bat for you.
When my convertible was rearended at 30 mph, they made sure everything damaged was noted.

 

Hi Joe. "Appears" would seem to be the key word here. Neither the deputy nor I are are insurance claims adjusters or body shop estimators. You, I have no idea, but what I do know is until someone qualified gets a look beneath the fascia none of us can say how much damage is present. That being the case, and for the reasons I've previously stated I do not believe wanting a police report to document the incident was unreasonable.

I have not claimed my transmission was damaged by the impact, only considering the possibility it could have been affected.

I believe I'm entitled to have my car returned to the state it was in prior to the incident, whether that's as little as a detail shop getting the scuffs and scratches out of the fascia or as much as replacing and/or restoring every component that was adversely affected. A qualified shop will determine the extent of the damage, not me nor you, or that deputy. If the insurance company refuses to pay to restore the car to it's pre accident state then I take the driver of the other vehicle to court to attempt to recover the rest.

 

Good to hear!

 

I had a 1978 Monte Carlo, primer grey, body was in excellent condition, interior was immaculate. An elderly couple also hit me, ran into the front right of the car kinda where this car got hit, minor dent in the bumper and a broken signal lamp. I also had State Farm. They actually drove off right after. Luckily it was right in front of my work and we have cameras. I called the police to do an investigation and called my insurance company, about 4 days passed and the guy that hit me comes in for an oil change( I worked at a shop). I took his information down(he must've forgotten he hit me) and wrote him up for an oil change. Then I called the cops lol. I ended up get a little over a grand. So it all depends.

 

That's ridiculous.

 

Hey - taking that front plastic nose off and repainting it w/flex paint, and put it all back together ... at least a grand ! Cop is out of line..


This is how the car carrier delivered my GTA from FL to NJ ... yep didn't look like this when I purchased it.
Dropped it off the trailer on I-95, 930 at night, slid across 3 lanes, wacked a pole .... and they didn't know it fell off ... kept going. Cop turned them around 10 miles up the road. Truckers insurance gave me a hard time -long story, But I had Geico at the time, I got a policy the day the car was loaded ..... they were great. Had a check in a few days, got car fix.

 

Your right Joe, Everything you typed in this thread is "crazy" ........

ALL tax payer's combined pay city servants, Not just me !


Look at this pic;





See the writing on the rear quarter panel ?

"To SERVE And Protect"....... Gen X T/A asked to be "SERVED" and got a rash of crap...... And now a rash of crap from some on here....Just for doing what insurance companies request......

 

Guys, sorry but there is no way its going to be a grand. $1000/$55 per hour = over 18 hours of work, not happening. I paint bumpers all the time at work, they pay between 3 and 4.5 hours. Lets assume 4.5 hours because its two tone. Plus around 2 hours to remove and install the bumper and half an hour to sand down and prime that small spot. Thats 7 hours x $55 per hour = $378. Thats an off the top of my head estimate so of course it won't be dead on but it will be in that ballpark.

The transmission will be fine. I've never seen that actually happen, even in much much faster collisions.

I would have have it fixed if I were you too but the cop was right, you don't need need a police report for minor stuff like this, its not really his job to do this. You just work it out with his insurance company, easy as pie. I'm sure thats why the cop was reluctant to do it.

 

I'm glad this couple stayed. To his credit the driver did hop out to see if I was OK, and he did apologize. Glad you were able to catch the guy that hit you. Wild story!

 

I was considering a GTA that needed a front fascia repaint at the time I bought this T/A. From my pre purchase research I seem to recall expecting it to cost between $1,200 - $1,500, and taking that into consideration. One reason I bought this T/A is because it did not need paint, lol. Now it does!


WOW! I'm really sorry to hear that happened to your car! Sounds like everything turned out OK in the end.

 

They wouldn't look under the fascia. I know a lot of adjusters from when I owned my shop. It's gonna get paint and blend time, then they are going to subtract due to all the other scratches and imperfections in the paint.

Not exactly un-reasonable, but a LEO is required to make a determination of the damage is in excess of a certain amount, and follow protocols if so.

I'm looking at this whole scenario from a certain point of view - I owned a shop for over 10 years, and worked with insurance companies. I've also worked as a police officer for another 10 years. So I'm experienced in the whole picture of car accidents, insurance adjustment, and collision repair.


I don't think you understand how this works. I've been in the business for a lot of years.

While I understand your frustration, your contract with the insurance company states that you must accept their judgement on claims. This is assuming you have full coverage. Your insurance company will repair your vehicle based on the adjusters findings, which will take into consideration existing damage and scratches.

If you don't agree to their judgement, you have the right to go to a third party arbitrator which will determine if you should be paid more by your insurance company.

You won't be able to take the other driver to court directly, because they are being represented by an insurance company, which will reimburse your insurance company if they are found at fault.

So. My bet is around $500. I'm sure you will report back as soon as the adjuster looks at the vehicle.

-- Joe

 

I don't even know that they would pay to R&R and paint the whole bumper. The pictures might show a real dirty car, but I see lots of paint problems and what looks to be other scratches over by the turn signal lamp.

I'd guess they will pay to mask off the bottom, sand and blend it into the hood/fender. They might even deduct for existing scratches/damage. I think the standard is if they find 3 or more scratches on a panel the panel is considered damaged and won't get 100% reimbursement for repair.

-- Joe

 

Honestly, I do not care what the cost is as long as it's done very well. I'm not seeking to profit from this. I only want my car to be what it was prior.

That's comforting to hear.

You have to see it from my perspective. You always hear how expensive body & paint work is, how things that look insignificant can end up costing big $$ and how bumper covers can conceal damage. That plus the fact I have a job that requires me to get a police report whenever one of my work vehicles is hit, no matter how minor, or I could lose my job. All of this tells me to get a police report and cover my rear, especially when it involves this car. However I do respect your opinion. I guess we must agree to disagree on this point.

 

You are right, when it comes to full on restorations.

Collision shops however, will scotchbrite the surrounding area, blend it, and ship the car.

If the bumper cover is cracked though that's another story all together. I recently used the SEM stuff to fix a cracked bumper that's not available any longer, and it worked pretty good. But I had about 4.5 hours into the bumper cover, which is more than an aftermarket one would have cost if it was available.

-- Joe

 

I agree, I had my 4th gen cover repainted and a shop charged 328.00 (for the front 97 camaro) they painted it arctic white and blacked out headlights and center. So if you think you will get over a grand I doubt it. Be happy if they get it matched and call it a day. Accidents happen, it's a car it has no feelings. Just be glad no injuries happened and only a body panel was scratched. I am sure the car didn't care that it got hit.

 

Why would they leave potential damage concealed? That does not make sense to me.

Difficult to argue with someone who has your unique experience, and I respect and appreciate your input. However it goes I will follow up for sure.

 

That's why I need a restoration shop, not a collision shop.

 

These days insurance companies always R&I the bumpers, ive painted hundreds and never once had them not R&I. They don't blend into adjacent panels anymore either, and on occasions that they need to it pays half of book time. It sucks...

I don't know how new that is, I've only been painting a couple of years.

 

How are you going to get a perfect match if you don't blend it into the hood and fender? I don't care how good you are at tints, you shoot a panel - especially metallic off the car then bolt it on and you're going to notice the difference.

Then again, brand new cars off the assembly line often the bumpers look like they were painted in a different shop all together, so I guess that's acceptable now.

-- Joe

 

Depends. If the adjuster writes it up to remove the bumper, and paint it off the vehicle and the shop FINDS more damage in the process then they call the insurance company and get a supplimental adjustment. If the adjuster doesn't request the bumper removed, they will have no reason (and more importantly won't be paid to) remove it to inspect further damage.


Agree, but what you want and what the insurance is obligated to pay you is a different matter. It's not like this is a new matter or concept that the courts are willing to decide, the collision industry is standardized. They will tell you it's going to Maaco or some other collision shop on their certified list OR they will cut you a check for the amount.

You will argue that it needs to go to Chip Foose. An arbitrator will review the adjusters findings (most of which are computerized now) and most likely rule on the insurers behalf.

You will them file a claim in small claims court. The magistrate will ask you why you feel your opinion weighs more than the number of industry professionals that have already reviewed your claim. The small claims court will dismiss the case. This is of course assuming you don't cash the check, because if you read the contract when you get the check you are agreeing that the case is 'settled' and will not pursue further legal action.

I've tried to help people in the past with claims. I've never succeeded.

-- Joe

 

We have chip decks of the most common variants for all the color codes, I also have a camera that analyses the paint and picks the closest match from all of PPG's thousands of formulas. And of course it can be tinted if I absolutely need to ... but in the end you're right, you can't get a 100% perfect match panel painting. I'm not saying its a good way to do it but its all the insurance company pays us to do.

 

It's funny. As late as 2006 we had to fight to get extra money for blend time. Obviously the insurance industry has cheaped out and just want the panels painted separately.

Which PPG line do you guys use?

-- Joe

 

Yeah I guess insurance companies are making it a little worse every year. Today I painted a full quarter panel on a 10 corolla and the insurance company wouldn't give me time to blend into the deck lid. I get the 'bumpers don't match from the factory' argument, but this one ticked me off.

We use PPG envirobase which is their waterborne line, and their Performance Glamor clear. Its pretty good stuff but I'd rather go back to Dupont. Dupont's waterborne basecoat is one medium wet coat followed by 1 mist coat immediately after - huge time saver!

 

I have not tried the waterborne stuff yet. For starters, it's stupid expensive. I can shoot Omni for under $200 a gallon.

Shop in town is doing waterborne, and they told me whenever it's humid or raining they can't spray. It's not like urethane where you can play with the reducer speed and gun pressure.

-- Joe

 

I can't imagine having to rely on waterborne in the northeast, I'm always scheduling paint shoots around the humidity levels.

 

I think in Massachusetts it's mandatory now. I'm in New Hampshire and we can still use urethane but if the tyrants get their way we might be forced as well.

-- Joe

 

Yeah the cost per gallon is very high but I suppose if you can get full coverage in 1 and a half coats (or 2 and a half for PPG) it makes up for it a bit. It dries from air movement so the booths have ceiling fans and hand blowers blowers to speed it up, though I rarely use them on anything big for fear of kicking up dust. Agreed, high humidity makes waterborne terrible. On the highest humidity day this summer I sprayed a 7 coat tricoat... took the whole day. I think if I lived in a humid area I would find a new career...

 

So what is the verdict - what did the insurance company say/do ?

-- Joe

 

They said "Don't worry. We'll make it nice again"... Platitudes, lol. The meeting with the claims adjuster has to wait until after Thanksgiving due to my work schedule.

Actually, it's more about what the owner of my body shop told me. He said, like what I was told here, that the adjuster will likely look at the cosmetic surface damage and offer me a check on the spot to wrap it up regardless of what might be hidden. He also told me they are required to cover the cost of a full, proper repair. He told me simply not to cash the check and bring the car to his shop when I'm ready. Then they will examine the car, give it an estimate and contact my insurance company regarding the difference if there is any. He told me they will hope I will cash it to bring the matter to a close, but if I do not, the matter will remain open.

 

That's it in a nutshell......

 

Yep. Exactly. Just keep in mind, while they have to repair EVERYTHING correctly, they do NOT have to pay the rates of the shop of your choosing. They are only required to pay 'industry standard', which is $35.00 an hour in Massachusetts. Not sure what it is down there.

-- Joe

 

Cop is out of line..

he's an officer not a body man

 

This may be of interest to you. watch the whole series if you like.


Note at hte end, he goes into LKQ, which will also be very relevant to you if they have to replace the bumper cover, but most likely they will not.

 

No Way!!! That's crazy...

Pleease tell me they got charged and convicted for a hit and run