FirebirdUSX

Found a cheap T Top 89 Trans Am and I know that T top leak but the question is can the leaks be stopped?I read (searched before I wrote this) that pretty much everyone gets leaks at the car wash even those with new weatherseals.Is there somebody who has T Tops and has no leaks?

also is there any trick/way to actually stop the leaks.This new car needs new seals so if I get a set I want to know what to do/install to make sure I won't flood the car every time it rains outside.I'm sure in almost 30 years someone figured out something .

Thanks a lot.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

I have always used a lil petroleum jelly on my t-top seals and I haven't had much problems with leaks. My current car actually does not leak under any conditions but it always has and currently does stay garaged and not out in the weather.

FirebirdUSX

So simply put its impossible to actually stop the leaks 100%.I thought people would have figured out how to mod the t tops so they seal better.

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

I would wonder if through time, the body flex gets things tweaked enough to be a problem.

Anyone with subframe connectors and straight body put an end to the drips & leaks?

FirebirdUSX

well my car has those tiny cracks at the corner of the B pillar.If a hardtop car gets that you can imagine the flex on a t top car.Still the rubber from the weather seals should compensate for any flex...or that's the idea.

bryan623

Just gotta deal with that. After so many years and the car body flexing and moving something is going to be out of alignment.

FirebirdUSX

No you don't.If you want to restore the damn thing you have to find a way to stop the leaks.I can't believe there is no fix .I mean people figured out how to hack iphones and we can't stop a damn leak

bryan623

Hacking an iPhone is different than a 30 year old car that's probably experienced quite a lot of body flex and bending from years of on the road. And yes there's a way to fix it. Sub frame connectors help. But still it's just a flaw of the vehicle.

FirebirdUSX

Yes I know about sfc thing is the leak can happen under the rubber itself or if it doesn't it just collects on that edge and rusts the metal.The whole problem as I see it is about getting the water to drain outside not inside .From what I see 4th gens don't have the problem.

Fluffy6079

Frameless windows don't help the situation either. I've owned plenty of 3rd and 4th generation cars, and while I will agree that the 4th gens don't leak as bad as the 3rd gens, the frameless windows are a weak area on both for sure. Body flex as induced by driving style is probably the biggest indicator as to whether they will leak or not. I had a '92 Camaro that was babied by its previous owner and never leaked. On the flip side, I had a '95 that I believe was run within an inch of its life and it would leak every time it rained.

Vanilla Ice

My Cars and Concepts Ttops never leaked. They were awesome.

FirebirdUSX

I think the t top glass itself can be modified to stop leaks...this just needs abit of brainpower to improve the design.I got that pdf brochure on how to install/adjust the weatherstripping with the dollar bill but that only shows that if you can fit a paper between the glass and the rubber seal it will leak water (doh logic...almost in the area of water is wet) .

4th gens dont leak in the same areas because the drain channel is alot larger.Will add a 4th gen pic to have a visual representation of what I mean.They do drain on top of the window but that's easy to fix because you can make the window roll /sit higher and push harder on the seal itself.

brianlibby791

My T-Tops leak very minimally, if any. I saw some water on the side of drivers and passengers side seat after washing with a pressure washer. But i am 99% sure it is from the side of the window seals (There was a bit of water on the window where the seal and window meet). My seals have been replaced once or twice over the past 26 years so I could only assume that's why. As well as being garage kept 95% of its life.

bryan623

It's just a flaw of the design

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

Once I got my t-tops to not leak, I never removed them again.

One fix is to put a slit in the rubber weatherstrip "tube" where it
has gone flat, insert the proper size vacuum tubing inside the oem
tube, and Permatex the slit closed.
Or you could use round foam weatherstrip inside to stiffen it back up.

bryan623

Mine leaks where the window meets the weather stripping at the back of the t-top glass. Mostly due to age and body flex (more so when I wash it than from rain ). I even had the t-top and weather stripping replaced. Something I just deal with now.

88Greg

Many of them leaked from day one brand new. Its a poor design and poor assembly from the factory.

jharrison5

Simply put you need to get the car square again and then preform proper maintenance. I've owned nine f-bodies ranging from 1977 to 1990 and everyone that had t-tops leaked in the car wash. So I washed them by hand and never had an issue again.

My '90 GTA leaked like crazy no matter the water source. I had the cracks on the roof right behind the doors so I knew the body had seen its fair share of flex. I had a friend put it on a frame rack and he straightened out the body. Then we welded in a set of SFCs, installed new door pins, window felts, inner and outer window weather stripping, and t-top weather stripping. It cost me right at $500 to have all the work done and it never leaked again. Every time the t-tops came off the weather stipping was cleaned before I put them back on.

If you want to permanently stop the leaking you have three choices. Do what I did and put the time and effort into truly fixing the problem. Caulk the t-tops shut so no water can ever get in, or sell the car and buy a hard top.

bryan623

Eh I just deal with it. It only leaks slightly. (More so if I am careless when washing it), but other than that it's cherry. I just removed all the paneling in the one side that leaked slightly and sprayed the **** out of it with that rubberized undercoating stuff. Never saw rust again after that.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

They fixed them on the 4th gens by putting drain tubes in the gaskets. You will not get them to stop unless you silicone them shut.

Mine leaked like a sieve from new, nothing the dealer could do in their repeated attempts to fix them.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Ive always heard the less you remove the tops the better. I may take mine off 2 times a year, never drive it on rainy days, and always garage it. Weather plays hell on these old cars.

FirebirdUSX

My hard top Firebird has original weatherstripping and it doesn't leak anywhere no matter how I wash it ,what pressure or direction so its not all cars that leak its just the T top ones.

Probably for a permanent fix it needs sfc and a redesigned ttops or drain channels on the rubber itself.

and a bit off topic , the glass sits on the rubber that's on the B pillar yet somehow the water can't get between the glass and the rubber ...every time I wash the car I find this detail fascinating

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

I try to avoid rain, but no more than I would if it was a hardtop. I got caught in a pretty good storm with it during Woodward Dream Cruise week a few years back. No leaks. I can get a drop or two between the door glass and seal if I hit it with a hose washing it. But that's it.

I take my tops out every time I take the car out, weather (cold) permitting. I love driving with them out.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Mine has never leaked a drop either. I got caught in 2 hard rains and washing it ive never seen a drop leak through. Lucky. My old GTA had good looking rubber but it leaked everywhere seem like. It had aftermarket seals I suspect that was the problem

Dartht33bagger

My car leaked the day I got it. I installed new seals and it still didn't go away. So I went and bought some 3M strip caulk and put down little strips of it on the front and rear edges by the window. That stopped those leaks. Then I put some silicone on the back of the T bar in the middle to stop the center leak. I can't take the tops out (which I don't really care about) but it doesn't leak unless I wash it. Then it still leaks through the cracks where the ttop rubber meets the door rubber but that's fine. I just put down towels on the spots where it leaks when I wish it.

86IROC112

I read a lot about these subframe connectors. Do these cars come with these and they eventually need replacing or is this something aftermarket you can add to fix things? How difficult are they to install? What's involved?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

SFCs are aftermarkat parts. You support the car and weld them in, which ties the front and back halves of the car together. Pretty easy install, #1 problem is that several designs reduce ground clearance, require relocating parts, or interfere with exhaust routing causing rattles. Still, it's worth doing.

I daily drove my six cylinder 91 Firebird for 7 years, year round. It was always parked outside, and I drove the car HARD. Lexan ttops never leaked a drop.
In my limited experience, the later ttop seals with various improvements GM incorporated, sealed really well. If you wave a pressure washer or car wash wand right at the edge of the glass/rubber you will probably get a bit of water inside, but rain water? Not a chance.

#1 issue I've seen with leaky ttops is from ham handed shadetree mechanics trying to solve a minor leak by adjusting the anchor points as tight as possible, and overcompressing the weatherstrip. The weatherstrip needs to touch the glass, and compress a little to seal. If it's overcompressed, it doesn't have any room to give, and the rubber gets crushed quickly and wears out faster.

People also like to completely overlook that the glass and weatherstrip needs to be cleaned regularly. The rubber benefits greatly from detailing and lubricating frequently with silicone grease. You can use silicone lubricating sprays, but silicone plumber's grease from the hardware store is easier to control. Park the car in the sun on a warm day, let the pores in the rubber open up a bit, and rub the grease into the rubber. Wipe off the excess when you're finished. As a side benefit, your glass won't bind on the rubber, and the silicone further repels water.

GTA1990

iTrader: (1)

I recently purchased a 91 Trans Am with t-tops. Typical used 3rd gen; t-top seals had been replaced, lexan t-tops replaced with earlier glass ones (and likely the weatherstrip on the t-top not matching with the seals on the car), door glass adjusted in the past, slight door sag

Car does not have SFC's. To minimise leaks I did the following:
-Liquid electrical tape. Sounds like a hack job (and to some it is) but with existing weatherstripping that has some wear / knicks and misshaped from miss-adjusted door glass, the weatherstripping needed building up in some areas and some nicks filled in. the liquid tape adheres to clean weatherstripping well and dries to a flexible rubber like material. For a driver, it really is an effective option.
-Door hinges. My mechanic (a well respected third gen specialist) didn't think they were too bad but once he re-bushed them this eliminated quite a few leaks and helped with wind noise
-Sealing t-top drip rail. Surprised at what a difference this made. Created an effective barrier so water would run away from key leak areas where the window edge meets with the weatherstripping.
-adjusting the rubber strip seal on the T-tops to best align with the weatherstripping on the car. Given my frankenstein t-tops and seals, adjustment was necessary. Mine were not glued down and I didn't glue them once I'd adjusted them.
-adjusting door glass and t-top latch points. Per the comments above, the t-tops shouldn't be squeezed against the weatherstripping but similarly shouldn't move around. Door glass adjustment has been covered in many threads; take your time and be methodical. Have a bottle of water with you to assess the effectiveness of your adjustments

All but a trickle by the passenger door triangle area now. Before it leaked quite badly on the driver rear, front and passenger rear (soaked carpets). I take the tops off every opportunity and no additional leaks have sprung. Oh, and use silicon spray on your seals regularly

BarryV8

A while ago I had new metal channels welded in and then installed brand new rubber seals. My car is tight as a drum and bone dry in even the most brutal of downpours.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

My 82 leaked all the time. When I had the car painted, I installed new Soffseal weatherstrips, and I used plenty of sealant in the channels against the body. ZZ3Astro has a Youtube video on his install and I used that as a guide. My car is always garaged, but one day when I was putting her back together, I had the car outside on jackstands, and I got caught in a torrential downpour. The car was dry inside afterwards. The only time I will find a few drops of water is if I use a hose to wash her and hit the window channel to t top seal from underneath. So new seals, properly installed will do the trick. I don't have any stress cracks in my car, so body flex may tweak the area a bit as well. The subframe connectors should do the trick in that case.