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so, doing some research and it looks like I'm going to go with eastwood for my paint, I spoke with a rep and they said they will match factory colors using the paint code. I know I can use the epoxy primer on the bare metal, the body filler and the existing paint, but is seems anti productive to prime my red car with grey primer to then paint it red again... so if I prime just the bare metal and filler and sand it all smooth and paint will the gray and red all cover the same or will it stick out? should I prime all of it? if seems this would make the paing thinker than it needs to be, or can Eastwood tint the primer so it's closer to the final color?
not exactly sure what you are asking, but if you bring it down to bare metal, use epoxy primer. if you sand down to original primer, not so much of a worry. depends on your end goal.
I get what you’re asking. I’m not a pro but yes you can only hit the bare metal spots with epoxy. You’re going to need to use surfacer/high build primer anyway if you want a nice finish and it will cover any transition area.
I would cover bare metal with epoxy, sand it down nice and flat, go over entire car with surfacer then block the car and spray color.
That's a damn good question. I don't the answer either. seems to me you would get a better finish if you are uniform in your substrate coats across the entire surface i..e - primer. May end up requiring less coats of paint that way. on the other hand, you will have microscopic unevenness/unlevel. again, probably not noticible. there area tons of utube videos on this stuff, I'd look into it because the prep is the hard part. shooting primer paint is the fun part.
BTW - why not go down to a local automotive paint dealer. they can point you in the right direction with this stuff and have stuff you forgot when you get into a jam, rather than waiting on shipping.
You will want to go over everything with a solid coat of something as a sealer or you risk the different colors and base materials absorbing you paint differently, and risk all that crap showing thru your paint. If you're spraying epoxy anyway, it'd be silly to not spray everything.
You will want to go over everything with a solid coat of something as a sealer or you risk the different colors and base materials absorbing you paint differently, and risk all that crap showing thru your paint. If you're spraying epoxy anyway, it'd be silly to not spray everything.
I agree with Drew, but I'm not a paint & body guy either.
But this I do know - epoxy primer DOES NOT absorb moisture - regular primer does.
So it makes sense to completely cover the car in epoxy primer. And yes, you can tint the primer.
When I get my car back on the road, it is going to have epoxy primer ONLY.
The body will be ready for paint, I'm just never going to paint it. I'm more interested in driving the car than what it looks like.
Drew is right. Epoxy the whole car, it can be used as a sealer right before paint. Especially for a red car, you need the undercoat to be all the same color. Depending on the brand of paint it could take 4-7 coats of base to get complete coverage.
This is what I was talking about in my post above. The line you see that is bleeding through my layer of epoxy is where underneath there’s a transition from bare metal to a previous coat of epoxy. Now I could’ve sanded it down and feathered it out and it wouldn’t be as obvious but I didn’t care because I’m going to handle it later.
Whatever you do, definitely use surfacer and block the car if you want it to be a nice paint job.
you may need more coats of epoxy to prevent that line. or maybe bad epoxy that stuff should be wicked. IMO, don’t use high build unless desperate to cover something up. requires more prep work after shooting i think. i’m still learning to paint. that is what i experience with trials
also. high build may absorb moisture. will need another coat of epoxy over it?? there i scared you. something to research before going head on
I'm a painter at a body shop. You want to use a sealer on all places that are like that. If you are doing a complete repaint, it is easiest to spray sealer on the entire car.
Since you said you are using epoxy primer, you can reduce it and spray it like a sealer. Just make sure that you're not trying to cover anything over 320 grit sand scratches.
More coats of epoxy wouldn't be the fix for that. It might work, but it's not the way it's supposed to be used. The fix would be to level the surface before epoxy, or to level the surface on top of the epoxy and build up from there. Epoxy is thin enough it's not going to cover sins. It's a base or it can be a sealer, but it's not going to go on thick enough to be a filler.
I don't trust 80s/90s GM paint not to lift and separate. I wouldn't want to put good stuff over it, and gamble that it'll hold. It's just as likely that it'll lift from the old primer underneath as it is it'll stay stuck and not become a problem under the new finish.
More coats of epoxy wouldn't be the fix for that. It might work, but it's not the way it's supposed to be used. The fix would be to level the surface before epoxy, or to level the surface on top of the epoxy and build up from there. Epoxy is thin enough it's not going to cover sins. It's a base or it can be a sealer, but it's not going to go on thick enough to be a filler.
I don't trust 80s/90s GM paint not to lift and separate. I wouldn't want to put good stuff over it, and gamble that it'll hold. It's just as likely that it'll lift from the old primer underneath as it is it'll stay stuck and not become a problem under the new finish.
I agree 100%
Epoxy primer is not meant to be sanded. It is meant to cover bare metal spots and then primed over with regular primer. But it can be used as a sealer like I stated above and painted right over, too.....also without sanding in between as long as you hit it within the window
More coats of epoxy wouldn't be the fix for that. It might work, but it's not the way it's supposed to be used. The fix would be to level the surface before epoxy, or to level the surface on top of the epoxy and build up from there. Epoxy is thin enough it's not going to cover sins. It's a base or it can be a sealer, but it's not going to go on thick enough to be a filler.
I don't trust 80s/90s GM paint not to lift and separate. I wouldn't want to put good stuff over it, and gamble that it'll hold. It's just as likely that it'll lift from the old primer underneath as it is it'll stay stuck and not become a problem under the new finish.
I can attest to that. When my 89 was new, I waxed it and kept it very clean. 2 years in the clear peeled on the hood. Long story short I had it repainted gray and it peeled again years later. This time I am taking it to metal and build it up to its original black glory. Going with Eastwood products.
BTW - why not go down to a local automotive paint dealer. they can point you in the right direction with this stuff and have stuff you forgot when you get into a jam, rather than waiting on shipping.
I went to 3 local paint dealers here. 2 wrote down my info and never go back to me. The 3rd I stood there waiting for the paint expert to come out. He saw me but was behind a door walking around. I asked the help and they said he will be out when he is done. I wasted 15 minutes. Told them will you just lost a sale to Eastwood for about 1000 bucks.
I went to 3 local paint dealers here. 2 wrote down my info and never go back to me. The 3rd I stood there waiting for the paint expert to come out. He saw me but was behind a door walking around. I asked the help and they said he will be out when he is done. I wasted 15 minutes. Told them will you just lost a sale to Eastwood for about 1000 bucks.
The local place that sells paint in my area doesn’t have a single person with paint/body experience. They were taught how to mix paint and that’s it.
And to add add to this convo I think the best route is to completely strip the car to bare metal because there were areas of my 88 where the paint looked ok but when I started sanding the paint was coming off way too easy and there were tiny rust spots forming underneath
Epoxy primer is not meant to be sanded. It is meant to cover bare metal spots and then primed over with regular primer. But it can be used as a sealer like I stated above and painted right over, too.....also without sanding in between as long as you hit it within the window
Dagwood I’ve read that epoxy is not meant to be sanded but I’m not clear exactly on what that means because I see it done all the time. Do you mean it’s not meant to be used like a surfacer?
Dagwood I’ve read that epoxy is not meant to be sanded but I’m not clear exactly on what that means because I see it done all the time. Do you mean it’s not meant to be used like a surfacer?
apparently im not getting emails for Thirdgen now.. So the original paint was not peeling or anything but there were a bunch of small dents, I replaced a fender and a ground effect (thank you dagwood) and there were a bunch of spots that were faded and scratched like someone took sand paper to the paint. so when I order from eastwood I will ask for the primer to be tinted. according the eastwoods website you can use filler on top of the epoxy, so any spots that may pop up once it is all one color can still be fixed, then another coat of epoxy and color.
bill gluckman, I considered stripping the whole car, but Ive been sanding on it with 180 and 240 grit on and off for the past year or so and nothing is coming off easy.
Speaking of getting the surface down to bare metal, what's the best/most efficient way to do this? I've a combination of original paint (roof, rear deck) as well as a re-spray (doors, quarter panels, fenders). Advice has come in from direction and included sanding (but no grit specified) as well as chemically stripping the old paint.
Opinions? Experiences?
Did mine down to bare metal years ago. My disclaimer is I'm not a body/paint guy at all. But I tried paint stripper at first, but it was more work then it was worth....plus it didn't get it all off and was hard to get the stripper residue off. Again....I'm not a body guy, but I used a pretty course grit sanding disc (something like 60-80 grit) and went at it, being careful not to stay in one place for very long so as to not overheat any panels. Then after it was bare metal, went to 180 grit to take care of any deep scratches, then to 400 grit. "Deep" scratches is a relative term...they weren't really deep but noticeable. After that I spray bombed it with epoxy primer and drove it that way for a few years until I took it to a body shop for prep and paint. He said he was glad I used epoxy primer since it keeps it from rusting and he could use it without sanding back down to bare metal again. I only used 180 grit on door jambs and such to roughen up the original paint. Oh - and I didn't touch the front and rear plastic bumpers....left that to the pros.
bill gluckman, I considered stripping the whole car, but Ive been sanding on it with 180 and 240 grit on and off for the past year or so and nothing is coming off easy.
mine was rubbing off pretty easy down to metal in spots with 180 on a da. Other spots were tougher to strip. If your original primer is holding up then I understand not taking it any further
Originally Posted by skinny z
Speaking of getting the surface down to bare metal, what's the best/most efficient way to do this? I've a combination of original paint (roof, rear deck) as well as a re-spray (doors, quarter panels, fenders). Advice has come in from direction and included sanding (but no grit specified) as well as chemically stripping the old paint.
Opinions? Experiences?
i use 40 grit to strip and a cheap spot blaster on the rust areas (sand blaster that costs around $20-$40)
chemical stripper scares me because i fear it getting into seams and places that I can’t easily access
Bill I'm with you on the stripper, I have plenty of time to remove it with a d.a.
Skinny z, I'm obviously not a pro, but I've been using my D.a with 180 and 240 grit.
One thing to remember the original red was over a relatively dark grey primer and the way red goes on, the primer will effect the final color (well unless you do 5-6 coats). I would epoxy primer on the bare metal, then sand to blend. Depending on the condition of the car (and your end goal) coat it in a filler primer. Then guide coat and block sand. Once you are happy with that do a uniform sealer primer (might as well use the epoxy primer) over the entire car. This will give you the most uniform color in the end.
If you want to cut corners you can spray the red paint over the primer spots, let dry and resand to feather it back in, then do the final color coats. The goal though should be to have a single color before applying the final color coats.
You can tint the base primer, but again you will end up with a slightly different color in the end if you don't use the same primer color as the factory. Obviously its not the same type of paint anyways so it wouldn't match 1:1 if you went back and time and parked it beside the car when it was new, so again depends on your goals.
end goal is to get it back on the road lol. I'm not aiming for a professional job, I'm aiming for a "my best" job, I dont want to cut unnecessary corners, I have all the time in the world, and it's looking like a busy summer for side work, so I'm hoping for some decent cash flow, I need to spend it before the wife notices lol
so I got some info from a guy at work, he has a buddy that can get me a discount at a local paint shop, $190 for PPG omni epoxy primer, $290 for a gallon of color, opinions? is it better than Eastwood? comparable? I like that it's close enough to go pick up and talk to the techs there...
We use PPG at out body shop, so I spray that every single day. Omni is PPG's lower end line, but it's still actually great stuff. I used to use Omni MP170 epoxy primer as a sealer on ALL of my custom jobs. (I mixed it 2:1:1 with reducer, it calls for 2:1 with catalyst only) This bike is 100% Omni products. The owner of the bike wanted the best bang for the buck on materials, so I shot it with all OMNI.
I’ve been using summit racing’s primer on my project and I have no complaints. Might want to compare prices. For all I know eastwood and summit may actually be the same stuff
So I just read this on another thread, since I am painting my car the original Flame Red Metallic should I be painting the car with all of the body panels on? i.e, fenders, hood ground effects ect?
Ive always read metallics should be sprayed with vehicle assembled. If it were me I’d have things like the ground effects and bumper in place on vehicle but left loose to create a gap from the body.
So I just read this on another thread, since I am painting my car the original Flame Red Metallic should I be painting the car with all of the body panels on? i.e, fenders, hood ground effects ect?
I am going to paint the epoxy and high build primer while the car is whole, minus spoiler and bumpers. Then take off the front fenders, hood, and doors. finish paint them separately. Re-assemble it, tape off the painted parts and do the rear quarters last. I am going basic black, what it was 30 years ago when I bought it.
05-17-2019, 03:45 PM
