Hello all! I'm looking into getting my first third gen, a project car. I found an 89 Firebird Formula online and had some questions about the underbody rust. Is this rust very concerning? Should i look for something else? Do you think replacement sheet metal would be needed? I am hoping some of you experienced body guys can shed some light on this for a humble rookie. Thanks!

 

I would keep looking.

 

Yea, I'm seeing the bottom of the carpet. Run far away and never look back. There are still plenty of Firebirds in far better shape out there.

 

Certainly looks crusty, and possibly rusted through in several area. You'd have to get good donor metal to put in it's place.

The rule of thumb is to always buy the most solid car that you can find within your budget. Rustier cars have been saved, but it's a lot of work and/or expense.

If you can do that sort of repair work, and don't mind putting in the time end effort to save this one, and it's a car you want, then go for it.

If you can't do the work yourself, have it assessed by a body shop, and price having the work done. Decide if you are willing to put that money into saving this car, and proceed accordingly.

If you can't do it yourself, and you can't afford to have it done, I'd look for a more solid car.

Unless hyper rare and valuable, it's easy to get financially upside down in a 3rd gen. doing major body repairs. The obvious exceptions are where you can do it yourself, or where the car has some special sentimental or emotional value to you, which skews the financial considerations.

 

Since you asked the question(s), I'll assume you can't do metal work or weld. Replacing floors and rockers---at minimum--- is going to be expensive if you have to pay someone else to do it, and a good rule of thumb concerning body rust is that if you can see rust, there's a LOT more in there that you can't see---yet.

Even if you got the car at a phenomenally low price, you still have to deal with the cost of repairs, not to mention the issue of finding a shop willing to work on a 30+ year-old car. You'd do well to walk away from this one.

GL with your search; a better car is out there for you.

 

thank you everyone for your advice! I really and truly appreciate it.

I thought it looked pretty rough, but being kinda new to the project car world, I wanted to get some opinions from some more experienced enthusiasts.

looks like my search will continue!

 

It's a bit hard to tell from the picture if it's paint peeling or rust through. Still one usually goes with the other. Thirdgens used a lot of zinc and galvanized coatings, they generally don't just rust up. For any rust to appear, the zinc/galvanized sacrificial coating has to be gone. At the point you can start to see orange, and things start to flake, it's time for patch panels.

Judging from the photos here, without stabbing it gently with a screwdriver to check for rot, I'd say that one probably needs floor pans (minimum) and probably has other more serious rust that you're not seeing. Rust is sneaky. Visible rust is kind of like visible cockroaches or rats, if you see one there's a lot more around.

 

And Thank you right back at ya !

Why am I saying thank you to you , you may ask ? I'm saying thank you because you came here first , before you bought the car , and took the advice of guys in the know without getting all butthurt that their answers weren't favorable toward that particular car . You don't know how many people come here after buying the rust bucket of every body man's nightmares and then have a keyboard meltdown when they get told the honest truth about the "gem" that they just bought , complete with rot that'd make the titanic look like a good restoration candidate , and end up going away thinking we're all mean ol rotten killjoys for trashing their Knight Rider dreams . So , In short , Thank You for not being "That Guy" ......

 

That really isn't that bad, but there might be some rust in places you can't see.

 

I appreciate that! I have a love of cars and mechanical aptitude, but I know I am new to the project world and I have a lot to learn. I've been doing tons of research on the forums here and seen the incredible amount of love and knowledge of 3rd gens, so I knew it was the place to go for some real advice.

 

It doesn't look bad to me. Not certain it even needs any metal cut out. Not ideal, but looks very fixable. If there isn't rust through elsewhere on the body this is probably a pretty easy fix. If this was the only rusty spot on the car I wouldn't hesitate to buy, but everyone has to make up their own mind on what they are willing to tackle/spend.

 

I'd want to start cleaning up that mess with the sand blaster. Just judging from the amount of discoloration and flaking visible, I wouldn't be surprised if media blasting cut right through what's left of the floor pan.

It's not a real big deal to weld in patch panels, but if you can buy a project car that doesn't need pans, I'd pay a premium for the car that doesn't need new pans.

It doesn't look that bad, but they usually don't until you start stripping away all the flaking paint and loose rust. That's when you find the massive holes, and paper thin steel that's too thin to weld. By the time you get done cutting away the paper thing steel and cleaning the rust off the pitted metal, you'll probably find it goes into adjacent panels. BTDT, and I'd rather just find a different car to start with than do it again.

 

Agree with the recommendation to keep looking. These cars don?t typically rust in just one spot. When that area in the photo rusts (which is a common spot), there is usually also rust/rot in the front rocker corners (behind the fenders), passenger side cowl/firewall/toeboard seam, rear wheel wells, front shock towers, all of which are pretty hidden until you take the car apart.

 

i appreciate the words of wisdom, gentlemen! i am now in the process of looking for something with less rust, and i have a question: should i be concerned if the underbody looks like it has been sprayed with a product? i was checking out a GTA and it looked as if there had been some kind of treatment (not sure if it was por15 or other rust product), with a few spots of rust visible.

in theory, having been treated for rust already should be a good thing. but im a bit worried about what has been covered up and if it has been done correctly.

 

Yes, I would be concerned and want to look into it further. The underbody was not rustproofed from the factory. Many dealers did it as an add-on and/or people brought their cars to an undercoating shop (ex. Rusty Jones). Some undercoating products were better than others, but many times they trapped moisture underneath and hid the rust that was forming until the undercoating starts falling off in big chunks, revealing the rusty metal underneath that it was supposed to prevent.

The other thing it could be is a previous owner applied some type of undercoating, POR-15, Rust-Bullet or something else over an already rust underside. It looks better for a while, but doesn't fix the problem and the rust will come through again. Then, the issue is to fix it, you have to remove all of that crap to get to bare metal.

 

Can anyone tell me what I am looking to do here. Is this a cut out the rust and weld a patch or do I need to
do something structurally?

Passenger side 89 formula.

 

Inner and outer rocker panel front corner is rotted. That’s a take it apart, cut out metal, fabricate new pieces and weld back together. There’s a lot of rot there, so there will probably be more when you get into it. Also, with that rust there, there’s very likely more elsewhere in the car.

 

Do you have fairly extensive welding and sheet metal fabrication skills and equipment?

 

^^This! My. first car was a '64 Buick Riviera. It was the family car, and had been to the west coast twice AND Ohio. It was mechanically perfect, but body-wise, literally rusting from the inside out. I did some very amateur body work on it, mainly to keep the water out of the interior, but then would get more spots showing up. Playing whack-a-mole with rust is NOT a fun game.

That hole means probably salty water got into the rockers, and also probably sat there for a while. I'd expect to be doing a whole rocker panel replacement there, if not more......

 

I am skilled enough to do this repair. Especially that the welds are all hidden from a discernment.

 

The rest of the car is not bad. I have some small pin holes in the driver side floor board. I have some small holes inside the passenger rear well or quarter. I have a small portion near the passenger strut tower off the side of it. That’s about it. For a car from NH I am happy with that analysis.