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I have a bit of a problem on my hands. A couple months back I opened my hatch and found it would not close again. I figured it was the hatch hinges that were bent, so I purchased the billet aluminum hatch hinges from Hawks Motorsports. I installed them, and lo and behold, the hatch closed again! Cherry on top, the spoiler lined up perfectly. I was happy that I would never have to deal with the hatch having problems closing again(until the pull-down motor breaks, of course, but its running strong and is showing no signs of failing soon)
Shortly after, my hatch glass suddenly detonated. POOF, it was gone in an instant. Needless to say, I was devastated.
I went through the laborious process of looking for a suitable piece of glass. It took me months to acquire a new piece for a 88' with defrost. But I got one...
This time, I decided to have the glass and hinges installed by a professional body shop. They told me they were putting rubber gaskets between the hinge to body and small rubber gaskets on the hinge to glass carriage bolts. I did a lot of research up to this point and decided that I was happy with him taking the precautionary steps to prevent breakage. They told me they used proper torque settings as well, which delighted me. I had confidence that it would be done right this time.
Until it broke again. Within an hour of installation. POOF. A lot of time, effort, and money gone, along with another rare and valuable piece of the third gen community gone with it.
I'm at my wits end here with this thing. I have no idea what to do. I couldn't install it, the body shop couldn't install it... It all seems completely unfair when you consider that there is a plethora of YouTube videos about this and they all manage to have no problems at the end. So I come to you, third gen community, to provide me with a procedure for installation. HOW DO YOU INSTALL A HATCH WITHOUT IT DETONATING? At this point, I can't afford a third piece breaking, as my heart is already in much pain from this whole ordeal.
Wow, sorry about the hassles with that. Definitely not fun.
I think this conversation needs to begin by showing detailed pictures of the Hawks hinges so that it can be compared to OE style.
Also, did you reach out to Hawks to get their input?
I've heard a lot of good things about those Hawk's hinges, but for the life of me, I can't see how it'd be anything other than the hinges. I'm assuming you looked up the torque specs? Assuming the body shop did too. Maybe try install the hinges on the body side of the car. Then get a piece of metal, or wood, or something to install in place of the glass. Then run the hinges through their full range of motion and see if they bind in anyway. That hatch is so heavy, I doubt you'd feel the hinges bind if they were slightly off. All that stress would be transferred into the glass. With a light 2x4 or somthing, with almost no weight, you'd really FEEL if the hinges were binding.
The stock hinges are different left to right. If the hawks are too maybe they were installed on the wrong sides.
I didn't know they were different. Never had to swap 'em. ...but anyone who's ever put a cabinet door on will know that those hinges have to be lined up right or they'll bind up!
howd you come to the conclusion that they were bent in the first place? if there was some event forcefull enough to bend the hinge, than it could also have bent the mounting surface and just putting new hinges in wont fix it. make sure it's all square before you re-install, or - as mentioned earlier - it will bind and something has to give
I'm GUESSING the mounting bolts were too tight both times. Might have been to spec,.. but still a bit too tight. I've mounted COUNTLESS hatches and the only time I've ever seen them break ( when existing damage or impact is not the problem ) it's due to the hinge or deck mounting bolts being to tight.
Get all the nuts finger-tight then - using a 1/4" drive and socket - "wrist-turn" each of them firm, then check against spec. ( Not trying to 'bear-down', just ensure they are not loose / there's no play). The Service manual calls for 11 ft-lb. for the hinge "thru glass" nut/bolt & hinge-to-body stud/nut calls for 15-20 ft lb. If they are @ 9lb and it feels like they are tight,... (zero slack/no play) don't try for the 11lb !
I've "popped" 1 hatch while installing it,... was the first time I ever mounted a hatch. It was a near freezing morning about 25 years ago; I vowed then that I would NEVER to do it again ! Mounted around 20-25 since then, the last one just last fall. ( rebuilt the entire hatch on this one. )
This just happened to me also. New Hawks hinges, careful attention to installation. Then . . .
In my case the hatch was too far back and not centered in the opening. The original hinges were really bowed in the middle.
I used the rear latch to hold the back in place while I aligned the top side. With all the bolts loose, I centered the top before carefully snugging them up. The hatch was opened and closed several times and everything seemed to work okay. However, the glass was still not centered. I determined the latch must be off-center so, I loosened those bolts & the glass bolts and moved the glass to where it was aligned as good as I could get it. With the latch still loose and the upper glass fasteners snugged up, I opened & closed the hatch several times. Then I reinstalled the shocks, closed the hatch and crawled inside to move the catch into proper alignment, and just as soon as the socket touched, BOOM! And glass began to fall.
So, several hundred dollars & a 10 hour road trip later I have a suitable replacement.
I did look for differences between the originals & Hawks but didn't get out the calipers. Now, with the new glass set in place and hinges only installed on the body side I see a problem. The glass does not center and there is no glass extension on it yet. what's really interesting is the passenger side sits much higher at the roof line than the driver side. I propped the back half up with cardboard to see if that would help and it did a little but the sides of the glass were above the quarters. I suspect the weatherstripping is partially to blame.
The blanket is not deforming it and there is a hard edge there. So, I have ordered new weatherstrip and will try again.
If anybody knows what kind of slicky they used to glue the hatch to the metal piece please let me know.
I've replaced hinges twice now, but always went with factory ones, first time was a nice set off another car and second time (different car) was a new GM set from Ebay and never had a problem. Looking at this picture above, shows me all kinds of problems with the "aftermarket hinges." I believe I'll steer clear of those.
I've replaced hinges twice now, but always went with factory ones, first time was a nice set off another car and second time (different car) was a new GM set from Ebay and never had a problem. Looking at this picture above, shows me all kinds of problems with the "aftermarket hinges." I believe I'll steer clear of those.
Hey Skulltrail, hope you don't mind me adding to your post. There has to be something causing all these breakages.
427seven:howd you come to the conclusion that they were bent in the first place? if there was some event forcefull enough to bend the hinge, than it could also have bent the mounting surface and just putting new hinges in wont fix it. make sure it's all square before you re-install, or - as mentioned earlier - it will bind and something has to give
The above statement hit me right between the eyes! How indeed?
Question, are your factory hinges curved like this? It seems to me that the flat area on the Hawks might be a problem?
The one pictured has two contact points separated by an arch. The contact pads sit flush on the glass. It makes sense that that arch allows for window curvature where the Hawks piece does not. There are no hard edges on the factory piece, and there is a rubberized coating that must help. I'm going to put the originals back in. I'm following recommendations from a few places, their comments edited & pasted below;
white gold 88: You can make that hole bigger [in case you think the fix is enlarging the holes at top] but, if you look closely, it will move at a 45 degree angle. As it moves to the front of the car, it also moves the hatch away from the weatherstrip.
If your hatch seemed too long, stuck over the taillights too far, as most of them do, I'd bet the hatch has came loose from the glass. Do a search on this forum, I'm sure there's a lot of posts about this.
-- I pulled off the shocks, shut the hatch but didn't latch it. Used boxes and pillows to hold it up off the latch then unbolted the hatch [finish panel]from the glass. Cleaned everything, applied urethane, then set the hatch [finish panel]back on the glass. Started the nuts then let the hatch down to latch then from inside, tightened the bolts with someone aligning the hatch with the quarter panels. I would suggest leaving the shocks off for at least 24 hours to let the urethane set up good. I used urethane across the entire glass.
-- I hope you're not messing with the bolts that go through the glass at the hinge. Silicone will be fine for sealing those but, any adjustment you get in them can cause the glass to break. Best to leave those alone.
-- Silicone will not hold the hatch and glass together, neither will the bolts that hold the two together. Urethane glass adhesive, primer-less preferably, is the only thing I know of strong enough to hold these in place.
-- Careful with the hinge bolts going through the glass. A little piece of dirt or part of your old glass caught in the middle would send you searching and cleaning glass again. A little soft sealer in there would be good.
-- Nearly everyone that I've had to replace the hatch motor or had to align the hatch in the past 10 years had came loose. That's what kills the hatch motors.
Maverick H1L: From '92 Factory Service Manual: Concerning Height Adjustment;
"Remove lift window and remove or install spacers under hinges as needed. Adjust side bumpers as necessary to match rear quarter height."
John in RI: I'm GUESSING the mounting bolts were too tight both times. Might have been to spec,.. but still a bit too tight. I've mounted COUNTLESS hatches and the only time I've ever seen them break ( when existing damage or impact is not the problem ) it's due to the hinge or deck mounting bolts being to tight.
-- Get all the nuts finger-tight then - using a 1/4" drive and socket - "wrist-turn" each of them firm, then check against spec. ( Not trying to 'bear-down', just ensure they are not loose / there's no play). The Service manual calls for 11 ft-lb. for the hinge "thru glass" nut/bolt & hinge-to-body stud/nut calls for 15-20 ft lb. If they are @ 9lb and it feels like they are tight,... (zero slack/no play) don't try for the 11lb !
I'm following the above recommendations and a hunch. I'll post how it turns out.
Last edited by rurnt88; 12-16-2020 at 08:43 AM.
Reason: Additional information
They look nothing like factory! It boils my blood when companies can't make something EXACTLY like factory. Cheap slotted holes, flat plate for glass rest, no flexibility. The factory hinges are actually soft and will curve with the glass. The glass is not flat anywhere! When you place a flat piece of metal against the glass and try to tighten down each side, you are pulling the glass to the metal. BOOM! The beauty bolts have a hexagonal stem that fits in the hexagonal slots on the factory hinge. The hinge pin is not in the same location as the factory one in relation to the mounting holes. I wouldn't even attempt using those Hawk's hinges from what I see in the pictures at least.
Thanks for responding. I agree on all points. When you hold the factory piece up to the Hawk's unit it is plain to see, the factory piece is curved in both directions, top to bottom and left to right. Not true of the Hawks.
Now I'm out $226.87 for the hinges & bolts, $200.00 for a used glass - no where as nice as the original - and 10 hours of drive time. And I have the installation of the used glass to contend with. One would think they would verifying fitment before selling these.
Makes me ask, how did others - who claim these work great - manage to get them to work?
I just put the originals back in and they fit & work fine.
I did mine this past fall, it was a very straight forward swap and I did it alone without removing the hatch glass from the body(I did one side at a time with the hatch fully open and a prop rod in the center for extra safety). I did not encounter any issues with fitment of the new hinges. As John in RI mentioned the real danger is when you torque down the glass bolts, I was very careful when doing that but the body to hinge bolts are on tight. I did have to mess around a bit to get those glass bolts seated correctly when first opening and closing the hatch a few times but that was the same when I was working with the factory hinges a year before. The only thing I wonder for your situation was why did the hatch stop closing in the first place with the original hinges and glass? I can't think of any reason why that would happen but I'm no body expert either. I hope you figure out your issue.
You guys leaving out the small pad on the stock hinges? I would think that acts a damper so any vibrations are canceled to the glass. Otherwise those vibrations are like a hammer hitting glass.
Also IIRC the stock hinges are taller on the inside vs the outer part, since the glass is slightly higher in the middle, lower towards the sides. Anyone check if the hawks pieces are the same way?
Because I want to step back for a few and do more research. Instead of jumping to contusions, I need to discover what actually happened in my case, which, maybe different than what the original poster described. Not to mention the fact that I am stepping all over his thread. Sorry 'bout that:-)
I was going to start a new thread, but, since he has not responded since posting;
84 1LE, From what I can see, the Hawks hinges do have a slant. If it's to the same degree I do not know. Something to check though.
Something to note here is how the hinges attach to the roof.
On the '88 Camaro I am working on - I have no idea if these cars have differences in this area - the Left side has a square outer hole that allows for some adjustability. The inner hole does not allow for adjustability, it's a pivot. This is so you can move the back of the hatch side to side but not up & back.
The Right side also has a square outer hole and it performs the same function as on the Left side. However, the Right side inner hole is slotted (oval). I'm guessing this allows the hinges to fit when there are manufacturing variance and/or wear. It also allows the Right side hinge to move side to side, so, it can be used to raise or lower the Right side glass slightly. This means the Right side hinge can be placed at a more acute angle in relation to the glass face. There is also some adjustment in the thru bolts that can contribute to this.
Question is - particularly with a flat, sharp edged hinge - can the Right hinge be moved far enough to the outside to create a void between itself and the glass? If so, it would then be contacting the glass along it's sharp edges causing a stress riser.
I will caution those that have these not to blindly swap them in. I know the glass is heavy but, you gotta verify how those flat hinges are sitting on the glass before you tighten them down. With the glass positioned as good as you can get it, look down through the holes in the glass and if you see a gap - particularly on the Right side - you better find out why. The only way I am able to get that gap to go away is with the factory hinges.
This could explain what happened to mine, or, there could be some other variable. I'm still not convinced. Anyway, that's where I'm at with this.
Last edited by rurnt88; 12-18-2020 at 07:04 PM.
Reason: language
Because I want to step back for a few and do more research. Instead of jumping to contusions, I need to discover what actually happened in my case, which, maybe different than what the original poster described. Not to mention the fact that I am stepping all over his thread. Sorry 'bout that:-)
I was going to start a new thread, but, since he has not responded since posting;
Unless you are aware of some blatant misinformation, or inappropriate conduct, leaving the entire conversation can often be helpful. Keep in mind many of the threads here are 20+ years old, and are still helpful. ...and since the OP bought the Hawk's hinges too, I'd certainly say we're still on topic, even if were discussing YOUR hatch. As for jumping to conclusions, I don't think there's anything wrong with suggesting that you think the Hawk's hinges are to blame. We're working the problem. Scientific method, though pretty loose! LOL.
I think you're good, but thanks for your consideration. ....I've gotta do some hatch repair this spring so I'm watching this closely.
Not all Thirdgen hatch hinges are the same. The first style has a 'hex' hole on one side and a slotted 'hex' hole on the other side. This style is shorter end-to-end than the second style.( PN on hinges = 20205778 & 20257789) The second style has 2 'hex' slotted holes allowing for greater side-to-side adjustment when securing them to the glass ( PN = 60128 & 60129). This pic was taken to show the different various shims that were used by the factory when setting the deck lid position. ( height & overhang. )
* I've seen a few sets that were curved ( or "bent" ) like the ones rurnt88 posted. I've never re-used them, but have always questioned how they could have been "bent" like that when the hatch I pulled them from seemed to be perfectly fine.
John In RI, Thanks for showing these! I had no idea concerning the differences.
The arched hinges function like one of those weird headrests or a Dentists chair that have two separate supports, one on each side of the head.
They appear to be a good design in that contact with the glass is minimized. They can more easily conform to the curvature. I plan to clean them up and reuse them. I am now convinced the "hanging hatch syndrome" is caused by the struts overpowering the glue on the panel.
These are on the car right now but I will look for a part number on them soon.
I do have a related question, How does one remove the metal edge trim on the perimeter of the glass? Will heat work? Is there a solvent you've found to remove the adhesive once removed?
Last edited by rurnt88; 12-18-2020 at 11:40 AM.
Reason: added information, pictures, question
* I've seen a few sets that were curved ( or "bent" ) like the ones rurnt88 posted. I've never re-used them, but have always questioned how they could have been "bent" like that when the hatch I pulled them from seemed to be perfectly fine.
The arched hinges function like one of those weird headrests or a Dentists chair that have two separate supports, one on each side of the head.
So are we suggesting that they're curved from the factory, by design? ...or curved/ben through years and years of use?
Surely somebody knows for sure.
To me, they look like they came that way but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
I'll take 'em off the car tomorrow and take some measurements.
If they are bent from use there should be some indication.
I'd say that if there's force enough to bend the hinges, the glass would give up first wouldn't you think?
Absolutely! I would say it's impossible for them to be bent that way thru use. The glass would never survive such force.
1st, they both have the identical arch. What are the chances they would deform identically?
2nd, all four "feet" or contact pads sit flush on the glass. If the hinge was being drawn up, those feet would not sit flush. And the glass would break.
What I find amazing is the lack of information on these hinges. John In RI certainly has history with these components but says he's only seen a few.
Maybe it's something unique to the Van Nuys Plant.
I am left to wonder how the heck they could get "bent" in that way and still form the the glass properly, because they DO appear to still form to the glass properly. ( That 'bend' almost acts as a bump-stop,... but a bump-stop that could never be utilized. ) Most hinges I see are mostly straight / just slightly curved, but I have seen a couple pairs 'bent' in that way,... and I pulled them from hatches that seemed to be fine. ( wonder if it's a year-to-year thing, or maybe for use with a particular hatch,..... or particular combination of options ? ) I have no explanation; still left to ponder why / how / what would ever cause that to happen to them !
That curve is warpage and ive seen various stages of it over the years on many hinges. When i bought my 84 way back in 88 i remember the hinges being straight. A few years later they were curved. I put them in a vise and took out the bend, but several months later they were bent again. I eventually found some nice ones, but a couple years later they were in the same shape. If you look at it, the bend is right where the hinge pin is and probably where force wants to pull it apart while closing. Also the bend is moving away from the glass, leaving a gap and no support. If you can imagine removing the nuts on the body side of the hinges and tried to close the hatch. It would try to lift off at the hinges, pivoting on the struts at the deck lid, bolting them down stops this, but the force is still present, but now its pulling where the two halves of the hinge meet, at the pin. Since they are not bolted down in the center, it gradually bends. They look to just be pot metal, maybe not very rigid, but maybe that helps with unibody flexing. 2¢
Basically it looks like they deform to a point that they settle in. So is this really an issue? My hatch has a wider gap on top than it should so at some point the hatch has been removed. The circular pads built into the hinge would be my concern over the Hawks. It distributes the force evenly around the bolt perimeter vs the flat Hawks hinge and the soft pot metal allows it to flex with the glass. I would not changes hinges unless mine were actually broken. The deformed curve doesn't seem to be an issue.
Here is one of the hinges on my '85 with 74k mile, ever-so slightly bent. Maybe they bend over the years due to the weather stripping pushing out on the glass in conjunction with the body flexing?
Last edited by Lykoloo; 12-19-2020 at 10:43 AM.
Reason: 'they' not 'the'
Hard to argue with those experiences. Amazingly they deform almost exactly alike and to the exact size of the Hawks. Pulled them off the car and they are #60128 & #60129 same number as those John In RI posted above.
Last edited by rurnt88; 12-19-2020 at 02:49 PM.
Reason: verbiage
I have had these hinges on for a few years now with no issue, they went on the same time I replaced the aero wing with the Hawks fiberglass piece. From what I recall in the pictures by the body shop who painted the wing, they installed the hinges with the entire hatch glass off of the car. Then mounted it to the car.
Ok I am intrigued. A couple months ago, I had my shop install a set on new Hawks billet hinges. Two days ago the glass hatch literally exploded. Now, I did drive over a traffic-calming speed hump (not a sharp bump) which I have done before with no problems. It was as I did the hatch glass exploded. I'm going to order a set of OEM hinges and when (if) I am able to find a replacement glass, go back to the factory originals. I know the steel will bend/bow as they all do on the Gen III F bodies, but it will take years for it to become an issue. Looking at these pics on the thread, my damage looks pretty identical.
Where were you able to find new factory OEM hinges? Everywhere I look all I see are the same ones Hawks sells (aluminum billet hinges). I too am a hatch glass explosion victim. Just had my shop install billet hinges a couple months ago and going over one of those stupid traffic-calming speed humps BOOM.
I am looking at Ebay for original (used) hinges since my old ones went bye bye. The ones I'm seeing do not have a bow in them. Take a look. I'm really stuck on what to do but I can't afford to constantly replace the glass either! https://www.ebay.com/itm/27485902369...0AAOSwuaNg5RH3 (admin: sorry for the hot link not sure how else to do this so people can see what's for sale does not have the bend/bow. I tried to upload a screenshot and it won't work)
Last edited by sklearman; 07-14-2021 at 12:13 PM.
Reason: add note
There is a long metal strip, part of that banding metal that goes around the glass itself. It seems to support the glass between the hinge plate and the glass itself. On my car, it looks pretty straight and mechanically I don't see that snugging the bolts on the hinge to the glass would stress or flatten the long metal piece I mentioned. I'm really struggling for answers here, as most are.
I'll add, that the bolts on the hatch side of the Hawk's units are too short for my application.
I worked the hatch flange - a problem unique to my car (?) - until the glass sat right.
Now the hinge attachment bolts barely touch the flange.
I can get the nuts on if I remove the spacers and collapse (or remove) the weatherstrip in this area but, that will certainly lead to failure.
Old hinges are going back on.
At this point, I would not recommend the Hawk's hinges. They do not deform to fit the glass like the factory units.
Last edited by rurnt88; 07-16-2021 at 09:36 AM.
Reason: To add cautionary statement
12-13-2020, 06:50 PM
It was a near freezing morning about 25 years ago; I vowed then that I would NEVER to do it again ! 
Mounted around 20-25 since then, the last one just last fall. ( rebuilt the entire hatch on this one. )
