ThirdGenLS1

so picked up a used set of ls1 brakes and have a question about the e-brake. I have searched around and all the posts i have picked up were pretty old and had no definite answer on what cable to run. So my question is what e-brake cable can i use to get this all hooked up and work.

Thanks
Justin

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Im having the same problems, im also having issues with the hydraulic lines.

Im probably going to get the LS1 parking brake lines, but im not 100% sure either. The LS1 brake swap guide on here really needs to be updated with more information and pictures.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

there are no parking brake cables that work in this application.

If you use the LS1 cables, you have to move the body mounts in the tunnel and weld them on if a different position for them to work.

Or, probably not the best way but its working well for me, is to weld extensions on the cables so they reach the puller mechanism. Welding braided cable is not easy and doesnt always work well, but for now its a solution.

Ed miller was working on conversion cables, but its been slow going and is going nowhere fast.

If you can pick up a set of LS1 cables you will see what im talking about. They are the correct overall length, but the end in the tunnel is something like 6-8" shorter from where it connects to the body to the **** on the end of the cable where it attaches to the puller mechanism

As for the brake lines, i seems to remember that the 3rd gen rear disc hardlines work, maybe a little tweaking. the drum lines will work too, but need to be shortened to looped and you need a set of flex lines

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Im putting front LS1 brakes on too [if they fit over my rims], sorry if this is dumb, but does the parking brake engage those brakes also?

And so the LS1 parking brake lines are too short, did you just put the brakes on, or the full LS1 rear end? Because the LS1 rear end is a couple inches longer, so maybe the stock cables will work?

And I got the Earls brake line set, they looks like I should be able to bend them how I need too.

ThirdGenLS1

thanks for the input, guess i'll just fab up a way to make the stock ls1 cables work.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

Here's my solution to the brake lines. I used a straight 10mm female bubble flare to -3 male AN adapter, a 90 deg -3 fitting, a female -3 fitting, and a banjo fitting with about 4" of braided line. Cost was about $60.

For the brake cables I'm having the same problem as everyone else. And like everyone else didn't find the solution doing a search here either. My brakes didn't come with cables, so I got a new pair from Rock Auto. I then got the rest of the e-brake setup out of a 4th gen. I have the 4th gen brake lever, front cable, and I even cut the entire front brake cable mount out of the car. Somehow I'm going to make this work come hell or high water.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

[quote=Timothayyy;3845093]Im putting front LS1 brakes on too [if they fit over my rims], sorry if this is dumb, but does the parking brake engage those brakes also?

And so the LS1 parking brake lines are too short, did you just put the brakes on, or the full LS1 rear end? Because the LS1 rear end is a couple inches longer, so maybe the stock cables will work?

quote]

no, the parking brake only works the rears

the parking brake cables are short on the tunnel end, it doesnt matter what rear you use.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Well ill see if the Earls brake line kit fixes my problems, if not ill do what you did. I assume you came from drums in the rear?

And this parking brake thing is really scaring me now, im going to a T56. How will I keep the car from rolling? Can I just leave it in 1st gear? On the manual transmission car I used to have [a V6 suckstang] and when I parked it I always put in neutral and used the parking brake.

wanta427

The LS1 cables are longer than the stock early cables . I just made up a bracket that I welded up in the tunnel to mount the cables . The worst part on my 91 was the goofy self adjuster on the e-brake handle .It took a while to figure it out but it works OK now . Well the worst part is you have to pull the whole interior so you can weld the bracket in the tunnel and not catch the car on fire .

alloy

iTrader: (16)

I went with lines I made myself so I could make them like I wanted and not be stuck with someone else's idea of what they think is right.

I am going from a drum rear. Now I have a 3.42 drum setup in the car, but like you I'm going with a T56. Been waiting for a couple of months now to put the new trans in. I've been using my trans as a test setup to test my cable speedometer conversions and it's been driving me nuts not being able to put my new tranny in. I finally picked up a basket case trans to use at a test setup, so I'm FINALLY going to pull my T5 out and put the T56 in!!!

I also have a 3.73 rear I picked up and I'm going to try the 3.42 rear first and see how I like it with the T56, but even if I do go with the 3.73 I'll have a better final drive ratio with the .5 overdrive sixth gear. I've got a 4 wheel disk prop valve, and I've plumbed it into a 4th gen master. Should be interesting to say the least.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

My solution... The first go around for this was bolted through the floor. I didnt like that, I so welded it this time. Just used the holes I drilled for the bolts and plug welded it. Should work the same... and it worked great before.

Did the same thing alloy suggested. Stole this piece off the 4th gen. Just didnt use the whole bracket. Im also using the 4th gen ebrake handle.





Using the stock 4th gen e-brake cables. Works 100%...very well...VERY easy....VERY cheap.

J.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

ghettocruiser:

I'm glad to hear my idea is a sound one. I figured if I went with everything 4th gen it should work.

Did the 4th gen parking brake lever bolt up without mods?

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

My friend can weld, I guess ill just cut the stock brackets off and move them.

My question is, I should order LS1 brake lines and then figure out where to weld the tabs? Or do I have to hack them off my friends car?

Id like to use my stock parking brake handle if at all possible.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

alloy: The 4th gen brake lever bolts right in. NO mods needed for it. Im running a 4th gen console....but that shouldnt matter. The little rubber piece that insulates the cable as it goes through the floor fits in, but doesnt bolt in like the stock 3rd gen one. Still works fine.

I didnt run the entire 4th gen bracket....but Im not sure. I think it was because I just didnt feel like cutting more parts off the 3rd gen.either way should work fine. I just measured the distance between the single cable hole and the two rearward cable holes on the 4th gen, and matched it. Seems to work fine for me. Cables have enough adjustment in them to mess around with it.

Timothayyy: Using the LS1 brake cables and doing the bracket up like alloy and I are referring to will get your ebrake working. You dont want to park a manual transmission car with it in neutral and only the parking brake holding it... If the brake slips or fails, whats to keep the car from rolling? I always leave my car in 1st or reverse depending how Im parked with the e-brake yanked.

For the brake lines...I cant really remember 100%. But Im using a 4th gen 12bolt. So I didnt change anything from when I pulled it. However, Ive done several 8.8 and D44 swaps into jeeps that started out as drum rears, and made them disc. Its not hard to find some hoses at autozone that will work, and usually have little tabs with mounting holes that you can get creative with. If you have a friend that can weld, then the possibilities are endless for mounting lines. Just have him weld tabs where you want to mount things.

Sometimes simple is better though. I went as simple as possible...and it worked great.

J.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Guess ill start leaving it in gear then. And thanks a ton! I guess ill order LS1 e-brake lines and see if my friend can cut and weld the little brackets where they need to go.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

Rock Auto has the rear cables for $20 each. Very nice quality Wagner cables. Not cheap crap like others I've seen.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php Click on part number search. Enter part# BC140184, and for manufacture chose Wagner. You will need two of these.

Thanks for the info ghettocruiser. I'm going to put my T56 in first and get it sorted out, then go for the rear disk brake upgrade. I'd do the brakes now, but I want to try the T56 with the 3.42 rear and see if I'm going to stay with the 3.42's or go to the 3.73's before putting the disks on. Don't want to put them on the 3.42 rear, then later end up switching them to the 3.73.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

I just ordered some dorman ones.
I figure if my stock rusted ones still worked then anything new will work a lot better. Ill post some pictures of how I have it all welded on my build up thread
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...ng-my-s-c.html


Heres the one I got-
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...pe=686&PTSet=A

Doesent look bad.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

Those are only $10.49 at rockauto.com I hope you didn't pay $22.99 each, when you could have gotten them both for cheaper.

I just ordered the Wagner ones on Saturday. Hopefully this Wednesday, I'll hit up the JY and get the brackets and handle.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm..... guess ill have to search around next time, because I paid too much

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

The little bracket that the e-brake cable goes through right before it goes to the brake. Do I need it?

Because I have a relocation kit that bolts in the same place it bolts up too, and its in the way. The relocation kit is the bolt on UMI one, said it was 82-02.....

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

Yes you need it, a slight mod to the bracket and you can use it. I have pictures at home that I can post when I get home after work.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Alright thanks, ill check back later to see how you did it.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

I used this bkt. I made, you could bolt it to the floor or have it migged like I did. No need to remove carpet if you know what you are doing.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Hmm, I imagine getting the stock one off in 1 piece could be difficult. Is the stock one bolted on? Or welded on, I couldent tell.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

I'm assuming you are referring to lower control arm relocation brackets. They slip over the lower control arm mount on the axle housing and the stock brake caliper cable brackets aren't wide enough to slip over them after the relocation brackets are installed. I have relocation brackets and the easiest way to solve the problem is to cut or grind (carefully) and separate the two bracket parts and space them out and re-weld them together. Sounds much harder than it really was. Probably took me 10 minutes to separate the brackets, bolted them to the housing over the relocation brackets and welded them up. They fit perfectly now.

Here's what mine looks like after modifying them.

The front cable bracket is spot welded to the floor pan. I cut around it with aviation snips and then came home and drilled out the spot welds. I ended up with what you see in my earlier post.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Alright, guess ill do that.

One question though, how the heck do you get the parking brake cables out of the little holes? I can not figure it out for the life of me, thats why I cut them in the first place, lol.

And advanced auto parts just emailed me and said they dont have the parking brake cable I ordered. So Ill order the Wagner ones.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

I took these pics from UMI's display car at a Carlisle, PA car show. It doesn't require any welding, much easier. Just one cut each bracket, with a hacksaw, took just a couple of minutes. Then you hammer the little "tab" flush with the rest of the bracket.

I was wondering myself how I was gonna do this. So when I saw that UMI at the All GM Nationals, the 1st thing I did was go ever to their display and crawled under one of their cars. Some guy (from UMI) came over while I was under it, and was like, "Is there something I can help you with?".

I figure, if it's good enough for UMI, it's good enough for me, but I think I will get the brackets welded on at the same time when I have the LCA relocation brackets welded on.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Ill use my angle grinder, and thanks A TON! Saved me a lot of trouble and head ache.

This thread has turned out to be very useful for LS1 brake swaps. I bet tons of people are going to be helped out by all these pictures and info.

Justins86bird

I just cut the bracket at the factory weld and used the outside part with the ebrake attachment.

Orinackra

hey guys, for mine, I used the Raybestos BC94264 cables. I had to modify the cable end slot. They seem to be real tight, but they fit. When I say tight, I mean the handle moves maybe 1-2" max before they are locked up. I have no idea if they work or not because my backing plates are shot, so the cables will tighten, but I have to crawl underneath and push the cables out to release. They keep the car from moving though. One of these days I'll get replacement plates, so I'll let you know if it ever works.

fb305svs

I just completed this swap on my D44 rear with disks....

Brake lines - i was able to bend them around to the front side of the axel and the end bolted right into the stock lines on my calipers.

Ebrake - Unfortunately i did not snap a picture, but i placed the ebrakes in the retainers in the tunnel. The lines are short by about 11 inches, so what i did was cut the *** off the end of the ls1 ebrake cable, and cut the proper length off my stock ebrake cables. I welded the cable together with a mig welder. I laid the cables next to eachother so that they would overlap by about 1.5inches (enough to where the portion welded on would not effect the cable retracting into the sleeve of the cable). I basically welded them together just like that. With the minimal amount of effort it takes to activate these ebrakes compared to the old ones, i don't believe the weld wil have any issues holding. It was not too difficult to weld - not sure on the type of the steel they use in those cables, but it did off gas a bit. I made good to hold my breath and have a fan nearby to turn on after the weld was completed. I used a soaked rag to prevent the cable lining (which you have to cut and peel away) from getting melted - just cooled it after welding, and welded in .5" lengths to prevent too much heat from building up. Works great so far and holds the car a heck of a lot better than the old ones did.

- Steve

anthony714

iTrader: (5)

i have a factory set of ls1 cables for sale.dirt cheap if anyone wants them 20 buck +shipping

whats the deal with the lines?the stock ls1 flex lines work as long as you have the brackets.your hard lines might need to be fabricated but it isnt tricky.

no there are no stock cables that work.i had a custom set made but a company in michigan.search ebs post ,its detailed in there.not cheap but it clips right into the ls1 brakcket and you get to use your 3rd gen floor mounted bracket and equalizer plate.

you can rip and tear aND HACK AND CUT AND WELD TILL THE COWS COME HOME BUT IS IT SAFE AND RIGHT?

alloy

iTrader: (16)

The deal with the flex lines is the 4th gen rear is 2" wider per side. The extra width comes in at the end of the axle outside of the lower control arm mounts. When using the 3rd gen axle with the 4th gen lines you have to bend the rubber line inward much more than it was designed for and more than I'm comfortable with for a 10 year old rubber line that I'm depending on to stop my car. The braided lines were only $20 more than stock, and more importantly they aren't bent at a bad angle, and I was able to construct them exactly how I wanted them along with having the benefit of a braided line over the stock rubber line.

And yes, a little work and the 4th gen steel lines can be used. You just need to grab another smaller tubing nut to fit the "T" fitting (or cut the one off your 3rd gen line) and shorten the left 4th gen line and reflare it. A little gentle bending of the lines and you have what you see in the third pic.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

What I did and what alloy was doing is certainly not hack. Nothing was ripped....nothign was torn.... Whats wrong with welding? Thats what holds the car together you know...

My bracket/approach is 100% safe. Unless the welds fail...which would be quite surprising with as many and as good as they were. And its 100% RIGHT. Because it works and functions EXACTLY as it does in a 98-02 F-body.

The only thing you need to change is the e-brake handle itself. And since I had a 4th gen console, using the 4th gen handle made sense. Although...in looking at the two, Im sure the thirdgen part can be made to work as well. So Im not even sure that you HAVE to swap the handle out. I would much rather modify the handle assembly or cable than have to worry about sourcing or getting custom rear cables. You just have to have the motivation to get a 4th gen bracket, and then its just a matter of snipping your 3rdgen one, and welding her up. In fact...I didnt weld it the first time. I used 6, 1/2" Grade 8 nuts, bolts and large washers through the floor. That worked well, but decided to weld it for a cleaner look and no holes in the floor.

I went the same route as alloy with the rear lines to rear soft line. I cant remember what the part number for my hose is off the top of my head, but it works very well. I had to cut and re-flare the one side of the LS1 stock lines..maybe the other side to get standard nuts on it...but thats it. Of course, I replaced ALL of my steel lines on the car when I did my swap..so maybe thats why it worked out so easy for me. Who knows.

My rear lines just for the heck of it...



Lots of room for axle droop when on a lift or whatever.



Modified stock bracket to accept the new hose.



Working great for a couple years. No leaks, very simple, easily obtainable parts if I need to replace something.

J.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

I agree nothing either you or I did was a hack job. Cutting and welding the brake cable bracket to fit over the relocation brackets exactly like the stock ones, giving it support on both sides is the correct way to do it. I'd like to see how much the bracket on the UMI car flexes when the e-brake is applied. At the very least they should have drilled a hole in the bracket where the tab is and bolted it to the back of the LCA bracket to give it some stability. And I also don't consider re-flaring the lines hacking.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

I think the bracket is built thick/strong enough, that it's just fine the way UMI has it done it. The guys at UMI are pretty smart, I trust the way they did it just fine. I still haven't touched the ebrakes on my car, but I installed the brackets exactly the same as UMI did. I'm really not the worried about it, I have an automatic anyways.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

If it's strong enough without the bracket going around to pick up the other side of the bolt, then why did GM spend the extra money to have the bracket built that way? As ghettocruiser said, with it cut and rewelded it functions exactly like it was meant to on the original vehicle it was on. I trust GM's design over UMI's quick solution any day. Just because they are "UMI" doesn't mean what they did was the right way to do it.

And...........I guess I don't understand what the big deal is about cutting and re-welding the brackets. Takes 10 minutes each to do it the right way. And again, it's like ghettocruiser said, you just have to have the motivation to do it the right way.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

But UMI does have to worry about liability lawsuits!

Well, when I do get the time, I want to get the UMI bolt on brackets welded anyways. I was planning to have them weld the e brake brackets at the same time. And I was planning on getting it done as soon after I do hook the cables up.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

I dont know anything about UMI's LCAR brackets...if thats what you guys are talking about. I used Spohn. I would never use bolt on brackets. Just no reason to. Welding it all solid seemed like the only way to install something that takes quite a good bit of force.

I also re-welded and worked the e-brake brackets so they can be attached like normal. Again...it works 100% the way it did from GM. I like building things overkill...not just good enough to work. It might be good enough for UMI, but its not good enough for me until I say it is. haha. Not gonna risk my car/life just because someone else says it'll work...when my gut is telling me that Ide rather do it different.

Just as a sideline...Im in no way putting anyone elses work down. I have UMI parts and they make some good stuff. Im slightly brand loyal to Spohn, but have no issues buying from UMI in the future. I just wanted to defend the "hack" stuff and just add my two cents about the brackets. And those relocation brackets are something that should be welded in my opinion. Just like SFCs. But if a bolt on SFC fails, it wont send your axle in any funny directions.

J.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

[QUOTE=//<86TA>\\;3844922]there are no parking brake cables that work in this application.

If you use the LS1 cables, you have to move the body mounts in the tunnel and weld them on if a different position for them to work.

Or, probably not the best way but its working well for me, is to weld extensions on the cables so they reach the puller mechanism. Welding braided cable is not easy and doesnt always work well, but for now its a solution.

Ed miller was working on conversion cables, but its been slow going and is going nowhere fast.

If you can pick up a set of LS1 cables you will see what im talking about. They are the correct overall length, but the end in the tunnel is something like 6-8" shorter from where it connects to the body to the **** on the end of the cable where it attaches to the puller mechanism



You can actually cut off 9 inches of the outer jacket and use a set of LS1 cables. It's not easy by any means it took me about 4 hours to do the pair i'm using in my car. However I'd rather do that then remove and reweld the guides on the body. to measure the cut I just cut off the jacketing under the large foam buffers. I had to mess around with the routing a little bit. I know this working when swapping in an LS1 rear. I suspect it would work with a stock width axle since I had a lot of extra thread left on tensioner.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Wait.... You welded the actual steel braided cables?

Why would you rather do that than modify the brackets???

I think everyones on the same page with the differences in the cables. Im not sure if anyone is waiting around for conversion cables....but in my opinion, Ide rather make a way for stock cables to just drop right in. What happens if you pay, probably a lot, for custom conversion cables then one breaks in the future? Its alot easier to just pick up a set of cheapo LS1 cables.

But...just my opinion like I said. There plenty of different methods for doing it. If it works...it works.

J.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

thats what i did too, like said above, welding braided cable is not the easiest thing to do, but if you know what you are doing and are careful, it works fine. the only reason i went in that way is im still holding out for ed miller to finish the conversion cables. I dont want to modify the mounting points on the body so down the road, if the car changes ot something better comes out, i dant have to rebuild everything again.

As for this method not being safe, its a parking brake, if one breaks, it will break when you pull the e-brake lever and you will know right away there is a problem. I dont think its a big deal. I ran without a parking brake for years before finally hooking it back up. And if the car is an auto, you dont even need it.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

Sorry but welding cables together doesn't give me a warm fuzzy. And as far as your having an auto, you never know when something will happen and you need the emergency brake. That's why they are called "emergency" brakes. I had master cyl. push rod fall off the pedal on a pickup I owned many years ago. The e-brake saved my bacon that day. I can still remember skidding the back tires and stopping about 6 inches from the car in front of me.

And as as as modifying the mounting points on the car, to use the stock LS1 cables you really only need to make and add the little bracket Dyno Don made. Bolt or weld it on, run your cables, use the 4th gen lever and front cable and your done. If anything ever happens your using factory replacement parts, and don't have to spend 4 hours modifying a cable. If you ever want to go back to original, put the old brakes on, your cables, your old handle and your done. The one little bracket you attached won't be in the way of anything.

ghettocruiser used the entire 4th gen front bracket and it looks really clean. (nice work by the way......care if I copy you?) It isn't absolutely necessary to do it that way, but why not? Easy to grab the bracket of a 4th gen and you have a factory designed setup with virtually no chance of failure.

Again it comes down to how much time to you want to put into this. But I'm sure I could actually save time mounting the 4th gen front bracket verses the 4 hours that it took to modify the cables, and use stock off the shelf replacement parts.

I think it's great we can put our ideas up for discussion here. We all have different ways of thinking and doing things and I can't tell you how many hours seeing how others do things has saved me.

Please everyone keep posting and we will keep "discussing". All our projects are the better for it.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

No no welding involved all I did to modify a set of cables from a 98 to work in my car was cut away some of the jacketing to increase the amount of cable exposed to be the same as that of a 3rd gen. The entire project including adjusting the ebrake took about 4 hours. But most of it was figuring out where to make the cut. I did it that way cause I would rather cut up easily available stock replacement stuff then modify my chassis

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Sorry man...now that I look at your post I noticed that you have the first half of the "quote" command but not the second part. So it looks like you were the original person saying that...

I know what you are talking about when you say modify the cable sheath. I thought about doing that as well. My car is so modified at this point that welding something else onto my chassis didnt bother me in the least. If for some insane reason I ever wanted to put the car back to stock...hahaha...sorry just read that outloud....I could easily modify whats there to use stock 3rd gen cables again. But...I see no reason why I would ever go back to a 3rd gen rear or 3rd gen drums. So why not make it permanent.

I performed the "sheath mod" on a few jeeps that I did axle swaps in. Usually in a cherokee when Ide swap in a Ford 8.8. But I ended up revising my plan for that as well so that I could use off the shelf cables. More than one way to skin a fish thats for sure.

J.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

I'm just getting my new rear ready to go into my car and after hooking the cables up I noticed that on the spring at the end of the cables there was almost total coil bind on the right cable, and the cable was bent in an "S" shape because the spring was compressed to far even without the brake being applied. So I went ahead and mocked up the ebrake handle and hooked all the cables up and sure enough had total coil bind on the right side, brake would not apply. And had almost the same on the left.

Only solution I could come up with was to shorten the springs. I cut 1/2" off the left side, and about 1" on the right side. Now the brakes apply and the cables are not twisted and no coil bind. Pic is after shortening 1" the right side spring.

I'm sure this is because the 4th gen rears are 2" wider per side and the brake setup is out further than it ends up being on a 3rd gen housing.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

I was doing some searching and just found replacement parking brake lever boots. They are $15 + $10 shipping. I think that's high for shipping, but seems they are the only source for these. Looks like the $10 is standard shipping on these no matter how many sets you buy.

http://www.rmsautoparts.com/proddeta...0FH-Brake-Boot

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

Sure would be nice to provide a link.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Wait...are those boots the ones taht go on the back of the backing plate in the rear? If so...def link us up. Mine are torn...atleast one of them is I think. When I first saw the picture, I thought they were the rubber boot on the inside of the car. Where the parking brake lever cable goes through thef loor. I was thinking "why does he need two...and how did his go bad?" haha.

J.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

Ok fixed it. Link apparently didn't take when I did a cut and paste last night.

Yes they are the ones that go onto the backing plate for the small brake lever. Mine are torn also. I'm just not thrilled with $10 shipping for something that could go for $.75 in an envelope.