Well i swapped a 9 bolt rear end to my car that originally had a 10 bolt drum. I never put on a prop valve and thought it would have worked fine with out one. But the hose to the right caliper has poped on me two times. I was woundering by installing a wilwood manual prop valve it will work correctly? .

But someone told me that our drums use 10 psi and disc use around 5 psi. Is this true? I also read up on the wilwood prop valve and it says that it is adjustable from 100-1000 psi.

had post in a wrong section of the forums.

 

5 psi... 10 psi... if that was the case they should just run a hose inside the car for you to blow into instead of all that hydraulic nonsense.

Seriously, if your hose is bursting I would say you bought or were given crappy parts. You know Alex don't you, he's known for selling bad parts, you didn't let him work on your car like he was 'advertising' a while back. If that's not the case then I would just buy another hose from a different company. I'm assuming the 9 bolt has disk brakes, if the pressure was the problem (with good hoses) then the other side should be ready to go too since both rears share the same line off of the master cylinder. Disk brakes need more pressure than drums, by more than just a few psi. So if you didn't change the combo valve you shouldn't have this problem unless something else is really wrong. Actually, if you didn't change the combo valve your rear brakes shouldn't be working much at all, I don't see how too much pressure is your problem.

Were the rear brakes locking up any?

 

Ok first dont talk about someone i now like that, Whos the one that got ripped of. Stop hating. The brakes werent locking up, my rear is disc. The first hose that i had on the rear was the stock, the new one that i bought, was from auto zone. I heard that disc need less pressure than drums. My rear end has 2 hoses, one that is at the center of the rear (thats goes from the chassis of the car to the actual rear) and the other one is about 10 inches long and is connected to the right caliper. I dont now what to do wouldnt using a wilwood adjustable prop valve work for me?

 

The rear brakes actually worked beautafully. Now that they are not working, the back of my car tiks, from the pads being lose.

 

When 'rear drum / proportioning valve' is being discussed,
do you really mean... drum brake residual pressure valve?

 

I used to have drums ontill i did my swap:
From
*stock gay drum 3.08 10 bolt
To
*disc 3.45 posi 9 bolt

And now i have a braking problem , its my daily driver and need to et it fixed asap. I don't know what i can put on to stop the popping of the hose. (wilwood adjustable prop valve/wilwood 2lb residual)? I need help guys, anyone now what it could be?

 

Alex ripped me off, not the other way around. Since you are not him I'll try and help you anyway.

Too much pressure is not your problem, where was the hose leaking from? Does it have any marks on it? Is it touching something under the car and getting pulled apart? Remember there is a safety factor involved, so even if you are getting too much pressure the hose should be able to take at least one and a half times or double the amount of pressure needed. If you really had that much pressure wouldn't the other hose quit too?

 

The hose was leaking at the end of it, were it gets connected at the nut( i guess ). The reson i think that it is that hose is becouse the tire was full of the braking fluid, and the whole e-brake assembly was full of the braking fluid.

Well i havent seen the hose touch or rub on anything, The hose still looks like it is all intact. Well i heard that disc have less psi, on horse power tv. The hose shouldnt be braking any ways, if it had less or more. Well then i guess i wouldnt have to buy the wilwwod prop valve. Whould you think that braded hoses would work?

 

you got it right the drums need more pressure than the disk brakes. you don;t need an adjustable prop valve just the right one. go to any good parts store and ask for the prop valve for car with rear disk brakes and put it in. that should help you out.

Jeff

 

I stand corrected, I always thought disks required more PSI than drums since the shoes like to drag on the inside of the drum thus that is why they need a return spring.

Is the hose leaking where the rubber meets the metal end, or where the metal end meets the caliper? If it is the second I'm thinking the crush washers either were not replaced, left out, or 1 (maybe both) were still stuck to the banjo bolt or caliper when everything was put back together. That could cause a major leak.

 

Well i dont now were it is leaking from, but i now it is leaking from the hose im talking about, it is leaking from were the bolt screws into the caliper. When i installed it, i didnt leak for about 2-3 weeks, then i started to notice that the tire started to get braking fluid again, then the resivor was empty about 4 days later.

I bought a prop/combo valve like (slowta) calls it, of off a 1992 4 whell disc camaro. Will that fit my car? One guy there were i got it at was saying that it had different threads, another guy from the same place said it will, and both were arguing about it. It was funny. If anyone nows if it will work , that will kinda keep my hopes up.

 

I'd listen to SlowTA about the crush washers. If you take the banjo off clean the surfaces and fit brand new crush washers and refit, that will probably be all you need to do. Just make sure the mating surfaces are clean and smooth, and with the new washers that you get the bolt properly tight.

If your hoses can't take pressures up to something like 1,000psi then they should be replaced. While you may need the correct proportioning valve for your brake setup it has NOTHING to do with fluid leaks.

When you have your system back together clean off all joints in the system with paper towel etc and use both feet to push the brake pedal when the engine is running. Then kill the engine and check every single joint for the slightest leak.

If you are going to replace the hoses then kits like Earls hyperfirm stainless steel braided kit is a solid investment.

Si.

 

Well now i got the prop valve , and just orderd earls steel braded lines from summit. I should be set now. When ever i get them on i will post back too tell you guys if that fixed my car. -Eric

 

Hopefully there isn't a difference in thread type from the one on your car to the one you bought...

 

Why are you saying this? Have you had any problems, or anyone that you have had any problems with it?

 

The threads went from standard to metric somewhere in the mid '80s, '83 to '85 I think. Then somewhere around the '90s they changed the pitch of the metric threads.

Something tells me that the willwood combo valve uses standard threads. Hopefully it will come with adapters for you. But lowering the pressure to the point where your brakes stop leaking is a bad idea. They probably wont work at all then.

 

Well if i had a wilwood combo valve then that a different story, i dont have a wilwood. I bought combo valve that came of an original (1992 4wd camaro) , I was asking if the stock one will be an easy swap?

Did the threads stay the same from 1990 - 1992?

 

They should have stayed the same during that time. I just said that because my 87's 4wd prop valve had different threads than my 91's brake system...

What I did was take a stock prop valve, gut the rear side and have it flow directly into the wilwood adjustable unit.

 

Why am i going to do that? I already have the right prop valve that will make everything have the right psi. Does that wilwood prop valve look kinda weard under the hood, or it looks nice?

 

I'm not telling you to do exactly what I did. I was just saying that's it's an alternative. It obviously looks not stock, but then again it's mounted right next to my line lock so it looks fine. I was too lazy to flare all the stock lines so I just measured what I needed and had custom SS braided lines made.

The reason I did that was because I wanted the adjustability of my rear brakes because I had just installed a 4thgen rear and will be upgrading brakes later on.

 

cool , I think it should look pritty nice down there.Why did you get a wilwood prop valve for?

 

Sorry I kinda skipped about half this thread, but I wanted to say that when I went from drum rear to LS1 disc rear, my brakes work fine without needing any prop valve changes, so I have two extra valves here.

I have the adjustable one that Summit sells, and a stock 4-wheel-disc prop valve out of an '89 Formy. If you're interested in one, PM me and we can talk.

But like I said, I didn't need them for my LS1 rear swap..

 

Well i got the new prop valve and the earls steel braded lines on this after noon. The car stops beautifully but there is a problem: The same thing is happening again, i had the screw a little too lose and was spitting it out the same way it was doing it before. I tighten it and i will post back on what happens , need to let the tire dry up so that i can see if it is still scwerting it out. Is there anything else i can do? Or any thing i could of done wrong?

 

Can it be that my caliper could be leaking from some were, or it is broken? I see alot of fluid on my tire and when i park about 4-5 drops of brake fluid fall down. What can it be, i really want this problem to go away.

 

I just read this thread for the first time right now- wish I had read it sooner and could have saved you money and trouble (If you would have listened).

The prop valve is NOT your trouble. A few have told you directly what your problem is- Its the crush washer. "Anytime"- in case you didn't get that the first time, I'll say it again- "Anytime" you retighten the banjo nut onto the caliper you should always use a new crush washer- Never reuse an old one (meaning: even a new one that was just torqued on and the removed again). Pressure in not your problem. You really should also check the hose fitting the crush washer goes through for wear also, and the caliper.

 

Well i used the new crush washers that come with the braded kit. Do you have to torque that screw? The fitting is not the problem. I never removed the crush washer, i just torqed it again. Most likely i will have to torque them, it may also be that the caliper may be fillled with dirt.

 

I'll just assume you meant you didn't take off the new crush washers... and I'm hoping that you took off the old ones and threw them out. You didn't stack the new washers on top of the old ones... did you?

By torquing them, that means more than finger tight! I can't put a number on it if you want to use a torque wrench since I always go by feel and never have a problem.

However, if you did do all the right things with the washers, then yes, the banjo bolt or caliper can be your problem.

You did try and clean most of the dirt away from the washers before you put it back together, right?

I would love to see some good close up pics!

 

No i did not stack them up. Well i torqed that screw as hard as the little 1/4 wratchet would let me. The banjo bolt is the bolt that goes threw the metal plait to the caiper right? I also tryed to clean the caliper serface as good as i could of. I am going to have pics of them in a couple of days. -Eric

 

And i have listen to everything everyone has told me, and dont think you saved the day.

I am now going to put new crush washers and a new banjo bolt, and i am going to try not to bolt it put with all my power.
-Eric

 

I will make a note of this and be sure not to bother you with any more responses to your problems. After all, I was just reinforcing and adding to what others had previously suggested to you before you bought a new PV. No more help from me, sorry for any inconvenience

edit-sp errors

 

Is anyone else thinking that the caliper is leaking from the piston somewhere and dripping from from the caliper in a place that looks like it could be the hose end? Or maybe it is leaking out the back of the caliper where the stud is for the paring brake, I'm assuming he has the crappy cast iron calipers anyway because he only has 2 hoses on the rear end. I highly doubt the caliper is cracked, but I guess it's possible.

Now that I think about it some more... if he bought the hoses for a '89-'92 and is actually using an '88 or early rear end then there may be a question if the hoses are actuall the right ones? Follow me on this for a little. The PBR rear uses different hoses than the cast iron, I'm not sure of the difference myself but it may be important. Now lets say the first hose was crap, and the second hose as well as the SS hoses are for a PBR rear end. Maybe that is why they are leaking... the wrong hoses? I could be wrong on this one but for right now its making sense.

FWIW, I would like to take credit for saying that the proportioning valve wont fix his problem.

 

Well i can say that the prop valve was probley a very good thing that i did to my car, becouse i felt the difference in the two (drum disc/ to 4wd prop).

And i Know the difference between a pbr rear and the the the normall iron callipers. I dont have pbr , my rear is off a 1987 pontiac firebird.

I have good news the problem was the calliper, it was leaking by the parking brake assembly. The calliper was 41.99 , i am going to take the left calliper that is still old and say that it is bad , so that i can have my rear end with new callipers.

Also i am happy that i bought the new steel braded lines, i can say i spent my money on something really good (thanks slowta).

 

I got some pics of the steel braded lines in the back,

This is the hose (well the side that was giving me a headaqe).

 

This is the hose that goes from the body of the car to the diff (center rear)

 

I don't claim to be a photographer or anything but your pictures suck. How... how... HOW is anyone supposed to be able to help you when all you show are the clean end of 1 hose and the MIDDLE of the other? If you're having trouble with 1 certain section of the hose how about sending a pic of that end, and maybe the caliper too? It's like saying my transmission is making a noise then posting 3/4 pic of the whole car and asking us to tell you what's wrong with it.

BTW, the paint under there looks OK. But if you wanted to do it right I would have masked off the rest of the brake line too.

I guess I had a worse day than what I thought.

However if you just posted the wrong pic by accident then I'll take all that back.

 

UUUUUUUUUUUUUU. you should take all that bake because i have already fixed my problem and i was just showing the picture ao that you can see what side of the hose it is, and how nice it came out.

What are you talking about of the paint?

 

Hmm... I didn't get the e-mail to your post when you fixed it, but it looks like I guessed correctly without even looking at your car. With that said your pics do make sense now.

As for the paint, most of these cars are pretty rusty underneath where yours looks like it has fresh paint. I can also tell its new because half of the brake line is also painted black.

 

I have never painted nothing but the actual rear end, You are mistaking that the steel braded lines are painted because thats were the logo is at. If you look at pic #2 You can see that it also has a little peace of rubber that says (earls, and some sizes there). If you look at pic #2 also the only thing that may also look painted is the actal frame of the car, but that is just the front seal of the rear that is leaking,im am going to change that ina couple of days. What do you think ?

 

Wow...what a read. SlowTA, you have hella patience. I've been considering my response or even if I should leave one...but here goes:

Prop valve changed threads in late '89, '90-92 are all the same so he's fine there if the valve he bought is from those years, he didn't say and I don't think he knows..

Banjo bolt torque is 12 ft-lbs with NEW crush washers which isn't a whole lot so don't go crazy here.

Ever read a Haynes manual? You need to KNOW how to install a part CORRECTLY before you just throw it on the car, especially when the brakes are concerned. Always use new crush washers even if you had teh line on for 5 minutes.

You're basing a lot of your decisions on hearsay. Get a definite solution before you go and **** in the wind.

On stock lines, there's usually two sides to the banjo fitting that bolts to the caliper, both are flat but one side will be raised a bit, further out from the centerline of the hose and completely flat. THIS SIDE goes toward the caliper, the other will sit on the banjo bolt. If you have this reversed, the banjo fitting will leak no matter how hard you tighten this down since it's not sitting flat. Sorry but I don't have a good picture of it or I'd post it. Check this out, this may be your problem but usually isn't on Earl's lines but I don't know which set you bought so this may not apply to you.


Lastly,

You need to learn some FKN respect for the senior members trying to help you out. You come off sounding like some pompous *** when you are looking for advice. You already pissed Dean off and he's one of the more competent guys on this site..this isn't high school J/A so grow up. You can learn a lot on here but not with posts like these.


Ed

 

Thanks alot, but i had no intentions on making someone get mad. Anyways i cant change my caracter. Who started with me anyways?

I had perchased a stock prop off of a 1991 all wheel disc. And everything is working great.

Were did you come out of, sorry that my way of speaking is making you get mad. And people make mastakes when they write, or say things. Not every one in this world is perfect like you. I havent had any problem with slow t/a, just "i got mistaken on what dean said and he got mad". I dont like to read the hanes manuals because it only talks about oem parts. Maybe the steal braded lines had a different torque.-Eric

 

Where did I come from? Just like the rest of the guys trying to keep you alive, I read your post and thought I'd give you some help...which I now wish I didn't since you don't know how to appreciate it. I'm not perfect by any means and never claimed to be. But when a Senior Member with 3600 + posts tries to help you out (168 posts???) and you throw it back in their face, that's just stupid.

The Haynes manual would have given you the CORRECT bolt torque spec so maybe it wouldn't leak, but you didn't know how to install them right anyway so it wouldn't have helped any....Oh yeah, the manual would have told you how to do that also. OEM parts...that's what you have... OEM calipers with an OEM-style fitting being bolted to them. If you can't understand this then I can't help you.

I'm not mad by any means...I'm just amused by your arrogance, ignorance, and incompetence. I'll now go back to where I came from...surfing the forums trying to give sound advice to "Senior" members such as yourself who obviously know more than I do about brakes.

Good luck with whatever you try to screw up next....I'm done.


Ed

 

nice Ed. <-------Brake G.O.D :hail:

also you said your rear came off a 87 Firebird i think? Well those are the screw type disc brakes. I seemed to have alot of problem with mine leaking from the emergency brake hookup, I'd put it on tight but it would still leak. So i took the calipers back and got new ones. I bolted everything up and bam no more leaks whatsoever.

As Ed mentioned your still considered a newbie. And if you can't take the time to run through a Chilton's or much less a Haynes manual to get an idea of what your doing, I wouldn't bother asking. These guys don't get paid to take your crap, they are just people that have had experiences, or do the stuff for a living. You should respect these guys especially slowta for taking the time to deal with your problem.

There now that i've thrown in my I'm done

 

HAHHAHAH, I was hoping a bunch of you would get a kick out of this. The first flag was his bad typing that matched his even dumber friend’s (something deep inside me wants to believe they're actually the same person) then it was the idea that his combo valve was so strong it would blow out a hose. :lala:

I've come to the conclusion that I'm amused by some people's whole attitude and I love it when they just keep doing things to make themselves look even worse. Just like the people who jump into a post asking a hundred different questions and the last one will always be something like… how fast will this make my car go? You almost feel out of breath just by reading it. Then they just don’t listen to reason and an explanation.

As for the paint this is what I was talking about.... I know what SS hoses look like. I'll just assume the spots are dirt and not a poor coat of paint.


Who knew he was STILL going to have trouble with the new parts?