paulmoore

Ok, I plan on getting an aftermarket 9 inch or 12 bolt rear end for the camaro for when it sees strip duty. I also want rear disc brakes, and would like to use Baer brakes on all 4 corners. Now I can buy the front kit from Thunder Racing for like $1075 and that is with the 13 inch rotors. Here is the page...

http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...vid=6&pcid=145

Now installing those won't be a big deal at all. Now, on the same page you can see they have 2 listings for rear brakes. One is for a factory equipped rear disc brake car, and the other is for bigger rotors and comes with calipers, etc. On the drop down box, it gives you 3 options. OEM 10 bolt w/ drums OEM 10 bolt w/ disc, and OEM 9 bolt w/ disc. Here is my problem. What aftermarket rear end do I have to use to be able to run these brakes in the rear? Because to me it seems like I have to get a rear end that will allow me to use factory brakes, and I don't think that the 9 inch or 12 bolt will allow that, do they? I don't want to have to use a 'beefed' up 10 bolt cause it will still probably break anyway. I have thought about using an aftermarket 4th gen rear but by the time I bought the brakes to go on that rear I would have spent about the smae amount of money. Please help me out with this! Thanks guys, Paul Moore

z28cdoyle

I have a 9 inch rear in my car that I bought complete from Currie Enterprises in California. I am running the factory rear discs (J65 Delco Moraine calipers w 10.5 " rotors) with that rear so it can easily be done.

Currie offers 9 inch rears that are bolt ins for 3rd gens. They weld the coil spring perches on and fabricate a torque arm mount as well. (Fords with the 9" were leaf spring suspensions and no torque arm). Since I had a disc 10 bolt stock, my 9" came with brackets installed so all I had to do was put my calipers and rotors on.

OK, now for some advice that will probably not be very popular on this board. Save your money by skipping the expensive huge rear brakes. I run the J65 rear discs with no problem and I drive my car at road race tracks. Most of the braking is done by the front brakes. That is where you want to concentrate your efforts, not on the rear. To get rear brakes, junk the stupid factory proportioning valve and plumb in an adjustrable unit, then install the recall kit in the J65 calipers. You will have more rear brake than you can ever use.

paulmoore

I appreciate your opinions and information about the Currie rear end and that they work with factory disc brakes, that is a good thing! As for the rear brakes, however, I will be running a 17 inch wheel for the street and I'm an overkill nut to boot. I have a condition, it's called the might-as-well syndrome. If I am going to put big brakes and spend $1100, I might as well spend an extra $700 and get the rears done too! But in all seriousness, I like things to be 'even' if you will, and if I only put the front Baer brakes on, and left factory rear brakes on the rear, the mix match of parts would really get to me. It would be the same as having 2 ZR1 wheels up front and then keeping the factory IROC wheels in the rear, get my point Plus, it really is an investment if you think about it. If the only thing that you did was replace the rear disc brake setup with larger/better rotors and calipers I think you would see an improvement in stopping distances, but that's just my opinion! Thanks, Paul Moore

Parrydise7

iTrader: (1)

Are you planning on beefing up the engine? If not, why don't you go with a 9 bolt? They are good to around 400 hp.

With the engine you've got a 9" or 12 bolt looks like overkill.

paulmoore

Beefing up the engine?!?!? Hopefully when it's all done it will be putting out about 475 HP at the crank which should be right around 390 at the wheels with the T5 tranny. I don't think that a stock 10 bolt or even a 9 bolt could take the kind of abuse that I have planned for it!

KagA152

iTrader: (5)

if its a strip car, get some aerospace components brakes

paulmoore

Well, that's the problem, it will be a dual duty car for both street and strip. I need to have reliable brakes everyday, but still need something that can handle slowing her down from 120+MPH. I'm still not sure if I want to run nitrous yet, and if I do it will probably be about a 150 shot so I'm hoping for mid to low 11's on the spray. Anyway, alot of these 'Drag Race' application brake setups use extremely light materials that can't handle the vigors of everyday street and they get too hot and warp cause the rotors are too thin. Plus if you get on them on a hard turn some serious stuff can happen too like cracking and breakage.

vsixtoy

Just have Currie build you a 9" flange to flange and order a Bear rear disc brake kit for Ford "new style"(EDIT: aka- TORINO BEARING thru Baer) big bearing flanges. Make sure Currie builds your axles to a 5 on 4.5 pattern and a 2.5" offset.

The Bear kit you what is the rear touring package with PBR calipers and 12.0"x .81" rotors and sells for $695.00.

The kit # is 1262086 directly from Bear.

z28cdoyle

Paul,
I have a fair amount of overkill parts on my car too so I can understand your desire to have super duty brakes.

OK, now for some more advice...I think I read in one of the posts that you are running a T5. You may want to ask the board for opinions about the lifetime of a T5 with a motor producing 475 hp. I never ran a T5, but I have heard a lot of scary stories about the tendency of the T5 to fly all to pieces especially on the 2-3 shift. If you go easy on it you may be OK (yeah right, go easy at the race track, like that's going to happen). You may want to consider a tougher gearbox that has a better chance of surviving behind your motor.

KagA152

iTrader: (5)

talk to g force about the tranny. anyways, i think those baer brake are pretty much the same thing as lt1 brakes, just with bigger rotors? id say go with ls1s

vsixtoy

Look guys, He said he wants things to match- Baer front/ Baer rears. I can respect that. They look more custom than stock C5'sor LS1's.

As for the tranny- if its still working for him- then why change it. Drive it till it ever breaks- then change it.

paulmoore

z28cdoyle: Yes I have the T5 still in the car, but it is not running yet, however. I will not be beating on it for the first 3000 miles so I can properly break in the components ie. engine, tranny, rearend, etc. After that, I will more than likely be contacting G force transmission about upgrading to thier heavy duty unit.

vsixtoy: Just out of curiosity, are there any pros or cons to doing this? I understand that I will be using the ford brakes, but the axle bolt pattern will still allow me to use a GM wheel, corect? Are those particular brakes bigger in diameter or is it mostly a cost factor by keeping the price down?

vsixtoy

You'll get a better brake setup than what Currie offers.

I actually have a Currie 9" rearend in a truck of mine and had them build me a full axle setup disc brake to disc brake about 8 years ago. I opted for their "sport truck disc package" because it was the so called most heavy duty brake package they offered. Thie problem I later found with this is the rotors are off a 1978 Lincoln Mark V and the calipers are 84-86 SVO. There is noone that makes an aftermarket or performance Lincoln MarkV rotor so I will always have to find a stock rotor for this application- I will be changing this setup when it comes time these age to min tolerances.

I corrected the info and part # I posted. I gave the wrong info first and checked up on the sources to verify. Baer does not refer to their setups as "Small Ford", "Big Ford", & "New Style Big Ford".
They classify them as "Small Ford", "Big Ford", & "Torino Ford" bearing flanges. The "Torino" is the "new style" I wanted to and did confirm this.

Here's your options- They make kits for all the bolt patterns (4 on 4.25", 5 on 4.5", 5 on 4.75", & 5 on 5"). They also make the kits availiable with whatever bearings you have whether it be one of the 3 Ford 9", Ford 8.8", Dana, GM 10 or 12.

Now as for brake sizes, Baer offers
Rod & Drag kit- PBR single 11.35"x.81"- $685
Touring kit-------PBR single 12.00"x.81"- $695
Touring+ kit-----PBR single 13.25"x.81"-$995
Pro+ kit----------Alcon4----13.50"X1.25"-$2885.00

These are Ford bearing prices, the GM are about $100 more.

If you are going 13" fronts, I would not recommend the 13.25 rears. That is too much rear brake for what is needed. The 12's will suit perfectly for balance and internal rim fitment on an F-body (some 17's would still be a questionable fit with the 13.25")

Let me know what bearing options, bolt pattern, and rotor & caliper size (touring, touring+, etc) your are looking at and I'll give you the part # you need.

paulmoore

vsixtoy: After looking at the info that you have given me, I would also agree that a 12 inch rotor in the rear will be more than sufficient to stop a 3rd gen. The PBR single piston caliper with the 12x.81 (touring) rotor will be fine for my my application. I'm definitely not as knowledgeable in rearends as you are, I can admit that. What I do know is that I want 33 spline axles with a posi(no detriot lockers or spools) so whatever bearing sizes have to accompany that choice will be the ones I will use. I would also like them to be durable for everyday street driving. I would also like the stock 3rd gen f body lug pattern so I can keep my wheel choices/fitments options open. Are the Ford brake setups any better than the GM setups, or is it mainly a cost factor? I do 'feel' kinda bad that I am putting Ford parts on a GM car(kinda sacreligious to some people). What about the 12 bolts? Do you know anything special about them? Thanks for all your help on this, Paul Moore

vsixtoy

I am a diehard GM owner (4 Chevy's + an Austin Mini). But with that I have to say there is not a better rearend than a Ford 9". They are bulletproof. I do have a detroit locker on my worktruck- I say worktruck but its a lowered '89 1/2ton longbed that puts down about 300hp and has fully modified suspension and on the fly shock and airbag "assist" controls (Can carry a 400lb payload even lowered) My Ppoint?- Weight kills rearends, not HP. I carry weight in this truck daily and beat the living crap out of it. The 9" is idea for this vehicle. If it will hold up to this abuse, it will hold up forever on a drag 3rdgen with 500hp. A agree with the posi though, you don't want a detroit locker on the street for daily use. I go through tires in just less than a year in this thing and it is a little wild in the rain (fun, but wild)

The 9" does not have C-clips like the GM 10bolts (alot like the GM 9-bolts) however, it has much better bearings than the 9-bolt and the housing is much stronger on the pinion bearing also. The option of having two or more 3rd members for a quick changeout of gears is very appealing for a weekend at the track. Another entire 3rd member could be built with a spool and say 4.30's for around another $800-1000.

paulmoore

Well, I called some of the rear end companies today, and it will either be Currie or Strange that are getting my business. With the Currie, I will buy the rear disc brake setup and ship it to them so they car install it on the rear. The guy that I talked to, Darell, was nice and told me to go with the Stage III (31 spline axles, Tru Trac posi, etc.) I didn't get a good feeling from Moser, the guy I talked too was very eager to get me off of the phone almost like I was wasting his time. When I called Strange Engineering, I spoke with a guy named Joe. He can get me a 12 bolt rear with an Eaton Posi, 33 spline axles, etc. for $2195 plus $734 for the rear Baer brakes and installation(that's for the 12x.81 rotors). So my price breakdown is as follows....

Currie Stage III 9 plus 31 spline axels, tru trac posi, Explorer disc brakes, big bearing supports for $2777.73. Then subtract the price of the Explorer brakes(which he said was like $200) and then add $695 for the Baers plus 2 hours labor($145) to install them. Total is $3417.73

OR

Strange Engineering 12 bolt 33 spline axles, heavy duty Eaton posi no brakes for $2195 then add $734 for the rear Baer kit. The Total is $2929 with a difference of $488.73

Nothing is set in stone yet. I am just looking into my options at this point. If you feel that the 9 inch Ford is better/stronger, and worth the extra $400 then I will take your advice and get the Currie. Just let me know what you think, ok? Thanks, Paul Moore

vsixtoy

I would definately go for a 9" over a 12bolt any day of the week- Matter of fact, I did in a vehicle I needed to be strong.

The $200 off for no Explorer brakes is not correct- they sell the package for $400

http://www.currieenterprises.com/htm...esExplorer.htm

The overall price seems a little steep but you are having the 9+ prices and not the standard Currie 9" rearends. They are brand new housings that are manufacturer, and not older housings that are refurbished. I have the "Extra HD duty housing package "on my truck
http://www.currieenterprises.com/htm...aheavyduty.htm

With an iron nodular 3rd, Detroit locker, and the Sport truck brake package they used to offer (was about $650 at that time) and my entire package out the door was about $2400 complete with brakes. I live 15mins from Currie so there was no shipping.

blacksheep-1

Let me offer you a suggestion that is not very popular but would work for you. Generally speaking disc brakes creat drag (unless your using spot brakes) So a lot of drag cars started using drums (in the stock classes) because they could be adjusted back and therefore not provide any drag. Since drag cars only have to stop once, heat dissapation is no big deal.
So, if you're gonna drag your car, then just run a set of drums (cheap$$) a set of aluminum drums (not so $$$, but not so heavy either) or use OEM discs ($$$$), or use the spot brakes, (light and $$$$$$).
If you're gonna run the car on the street you can probaly find a set of 11inch (or bigger, as long as it fits inside the wheel )drums in a junkyard that would fit (very little $$$) Now if you're doing track days, then yeah rear discs are the only real option.
I autoc ross my car, and I use drums on the rear, but again we make a run and then let the car sit for awhile.