i want a major brake upgrade but i cant find anything under $1500. and thats just way to much for brakes.

 

pm ebmiller88 or just wait for him to respond. hes the best in the meantime, search for C4, C4 HD, LS1, C5, 1LE just on this part of the board, lots of reading. also check the FAQ board at the top of the page

 

I did my 13" C4HD swap for $325, and I've heard of people doing the 12" LS1 swap for under $200 if you can find the parts cheap enough off an LS1 car.

 

It really depends on what you are willing to spend and what's in your budget. Like the above posts reflect, if you can get deals on parts then you can do pretty much what you want. I just got a complete RF C5 caliper on Ebay for a whopping $26 to match the LF caliper I have on hand in the shop. I don't plan on using them on my own car (at least not my 3rd gens) but at least now I have a matched set.

What size wheels will you be running?

Ed

 

stock 15 camaro thirdgen 5spokes

 

You'll have trouble fitting much brake under 15" rims. I'm not sure if even the 1LE rotor + caliper will clear a 15" rim, no way the Vette 12" or 13" ones will fit.

 

what about othe gm vehicles? what about cutlass's and
monte carlos, are there any crossover parts?

 

Why? With the engine you've got under the hood, stopping shouldn't be a problem:



The base brakes you have are the same low-end design the rest have, single piston iron calipers and a tiny disc.

There are lots of upgrade options, need two pistons and a 12" disc before you start feeling any significant difference...and for that you'll need bigger than 15" rims.

 

it make take two seconds longer to get going but i still like to stop good.brakes are super important.
someone should make a dual piston caliper and rotor set
that fits 15's.they would make a ton of money.

 

this would probably be your best bet for 15"s

http://www.ssbrakes.com/products/det...maro&year=1991

 

Well it's like this....

You've got 15" wheels. That's 7½" to the outside of the bead. OK? Got the picture? That means the total radius of your brake system has to be something less than that, or it will rub on the inside edge of the tire.

The wheel bead is let's say ½" thick. That means you have 7" radius to fit brakes into, or else the brakes will rub on the inside surface of the wheel. OK again?

A caliper is around ¾" thick where it goes over the outer edge of the rotor. It needs let'a say ¼" clearance to the wheel, and ¼" to the outer edge of the caliper. That means that the closest the caliper can come to the wheel, is about 1¼". Still OK? Make sense so far?

OK... that means that the LARGEST POSSIBLE rotor you can fit under those little bitty wheels, is about 5¾" radius, which is 11½" diameter. Any bigger than that, the wheel won't go over it.

Keep in mind, these cars originally came with 14" wheels; so lop ½" off of all those radii to get to the OE component limits. You're now down to 11" diameter rotors, absolute max.

The rotors on these cars are, what, 10.7" or some such? basically within production tolerance of that absolute max we just calculated.

Now... let's assume that we're going to put bigger wheels on your car, so that it makes some sense to actually modify something. So, you put 16" wheels on there, 2" larger diameter or 1" larger radius, and let's design a brake system that will fit under those. Now you can fit 12.something" brakes under there. Problem is, you have to modify the spindle forging, to hold the caliper farther out, if you use the same calipers; or, you have to use a different caliper altogether; or, you have to modify the spindle and add a bracket; or some combo of the above. Any of those things costs money to retrofit.... LOTS OF IT. And it REQUIRES larger wheels to fit the stuff in there.

Now keep in mind also, this is people lives we're talking about here; not just the owner of this hypothetical car, but EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE ROAD WITH THEM AS WELL. Which is yet another reason why over-the-counter brake modifications OF ANY KIND are expensive: there's LIABILITY involved. That adds cost to the mfr, beyond whatever time and material costs there are per piece, whatever one-time costs might exist in the research and design and tooling, etc. Any time you offer anything to the public for sale, you accept a certain RESPONSIBILTY for the outcome of its use, as you will find out if you ever make it out into the professional and managerial part of the world. You just declaring unilaterally that all that is "BS" doesn't make it go away.

So when you finally learn to do simple arithmetic on things like this, and you come to realize that things are the way they are because of properties that can be measured and added up, then you can be that "someone" who "should" make this setup and "make a ton of money" by putting the proverbial 10 gals of excrement into the 9 gal bucket, to go along with the various other proposals of the same general sort that you've been spanking yourself about.

 

Good response!

 

acualy the above link was much more helpful, it is exactly what i was looking for , for less then $500 i could have a set of damn good brakes,without all the hassle of new rims,which are overpriced anyway.

 

The caliper isn't really the limiting factor in the stock brakes other then the fact that it's iron.

You won't gain much because you'll still be stuck with the same dinky 10.5" rotor.

New wheels are overpriced? You can score 16" Formula wheels all day for under $200/set. If that's overpriced, you've got the wrong hobby.

 

ok but will they look as good as these black 15s, i think the ones i got look great.show me these 16s, and do they come in black?

 

The Corvette standard C4 brakes (12" rotor, 2 piston aluminum caliper) fit under the stock 5 spoke 15" wheels.

RBob.

 

realy,will it bolt to the steering knuckle or would i have to replace that too?but that link above has some pretty good brakes for the price but how much for the c4s?

 

Did you even read what nape said? The brakes in that link are no better (well VERY marginally better) than your stock brakes. The limiting factor to the stock brakes is the tiny 10.5" rotor size. Better calipers won't do much. The iron caliipers that these cars come with stock are actually pretty decent calipers with pretty decently sized pads. They aren't as "performance"-oriented as they should be on these cars, but the calipers aren't half-bad. Its the rotors. Go ahead and waste $400 on new calipers for your setup and stop 2 feet quicker.

12" C4 brakes should be easily had for $350ish. $125 for zinc-coated hubs and $85 for zinc-coated brackets, and then the rest is just finding the parts on www.corvetteforum.com. The 12" brakes are pretty easy to score cheaply. I got my 13" C4HD setup together and installed for just under $325...$375 if you include the Earls' stainless steel braided lines I had bought a few weeks prior. These won't fit under a 15" wheel, but they fit under most 16" wheels without a problem.

If you're going to go to a 12" rotor though, I'd look into the LS1 setup. I don't know if it will fit under 15" wheels, but it does have calipers with a better design.

 

$500 for two calipers and pads? That's crazy. The 12" C4s will clear 15" wheels with no problem, and from certain suppliers of the 12" C4 kit, is almost the price of the complete kit. In response to what DC said, I'd go with the C4s over the LS1s anyday, cost and caliper function being the reasons why. I loved my 12" C4s, they can really haul a car down. What do I run now? The 13" C4s...

Ed

 

well it was 500 for the calipers pads and rotors from someplace else, but 10 or 20 feet is enough to avoid crashing in a sudden stop.
and what kind of 16 inch rims can i get, i want black and stock like. nothin flashy.

and ill get what ever brakes work the best and are the cheapest. what would i need for a c4 swap?

 

-$500 for 10-20 feet is a crappy price/performance ratio though.

-factory 16x8 GTA wheels

Those two ideas are usually not mutually synonymous.

 

I'm sure you'll get a PM from ebmiller88 informing you of prices.

I'd also like to doubt that the $500 pads/rotors/calipers setup would net you 10-20 feet quicker stopping distances.

I love my 13" C4HD brakes. I got the hubs, brackets, and caliper carriers from Ed, and the rest I got on my own from various sources. Keep in mind that $325 that I spent included shipping from 3 different sources, and brake parts aren't the lightest. I also got most of the parts for the cost of shipping though, and I added in a few extra bucks for the guy being so kind.

EDIT: Before anyone responds, I'd like to say that I meant those $500 calipers/rotors wouldn't give 10-20 feet more advantage over the stock stuff, assuming the same brake pads on the stock setup and then the $500 setup. I could see new brake pads making up most of that 10-20 feet.

 

Leaving 10-20 more feet of clearance between you and the car in front of you would be a lot more cost effective.

 

acualy the c4 upgrade is way better, im going with that,
and i live in florida,these people are nuts! not a damn one can drive. they swerve and weave and slam on there brakes , worst drivers ever.:gocrazy

 

I know, but you could do that with a $60 set of pads vs. a $500 caliper kit.

 

pads dont realy improve stopping that much ,its the rotors ability to transfer heat that does the acual stopping.
all brakes do is turn foward momentum into heat.
which ever can absord and disperse more heat will stop better.

and i have been in one accident that was my fault,and 5 feet would have been plenty,so 20 feet is a godsend.

 

You've got a bit to learn if you don't think pads make a difference. Try using some semi-metallic pads and then switch to a "good" pad like Hawk HPS pads or something like that. Guarantee there will be a big difference in brake feel and braking distances.

 

Personally, I'd buy the $60 pads and leave the extra room.

 

The two-second rule is great. Four seconds is even better, but people behind you will usually think you're a mega-tard. Plus, more lead time gives you more options as to what to do when they stop or flip or whatever, such as maneuvering out of the way or switching lanes or something.

My accident that was my fault was mostly due to me following too close - the brakes were marginal too, but a half-second of lead time is just not enough time unless you have super-human reflexes and reaction times. Which I don't.

 

pads do help but its the combination of components that do the most.

 

Very authoritative-sounding statement, but it doesn't explain why you're leaving 15" rims and tiny tires on there...the tire footprint is a component also.

You're looking to put bigger brakes that can convert more motion to heat, but leaving small-footprint tires that can't stand up to the extra torque.

Next grey-hair that pulls in front of you will result in skidmarks, not a quicker stop.

 

I can't imagine how little damage is there since if you'd have stopped in well under 5 feet.

It seems like you really think you know what you want and you're just trying to find people that tell you what you want to hear. These guys know their stuff, don't be so opinionated and you'll learn alot.

BTW, replace your brake fluid if its still the original, that'll make up your 20 feet for about $6.

 

but i dont want bigger tires, and you only skid when you lockem up ,and there wasnt much damage from my accident
just a busted radiator and a smashed hood, i fixed it for $50
and an afternoon. but the court bull**** sucked, there car didnt even have a scratch and they still sued.

 

...
...

What do you think happens when you get bigger brakes? Bigger brakes will lock your tires up even easier. Granted, there is a certain threshhold that you can get to, but you're still limited by your skinny tires. Get some meat on there and you'll be able to hit the brakes harder without having to worry about locking them up as easily. Tires are the most important part of the braking system.

Was racing a 3000GT today and hit the brakes when I shut down from 80 or so, and my brakes almost sent me through the windshield (had a seatbelt on obviously) Gotta love 13" C4HD brakes and 12" LS1 rear brakes stopping 245/45R17s and 275/40R18s.

Honestly, for what you want, I would recommend new brake fluid ($10 for 2qt if you use synthetic DOT4), some Earl's Stainless Steel Braided Brake Hoses ($50-60), rebuilt calipers from Autozone ($12.99 each), and a good set of brake pads like Stillen MetalMatrix or Hawk HPS pads ($60ish?).

Replace your original wheel bearings while you're at it, That'll only cost you another $15 or so for the bearings and a tub of Valvoline Synthetic Disc Brake Wheel Bearing Grease.

It doesn't seem like you're into any kind of racing or too aggressive driving, you just want to feel safe on the roads. The above mentioned setup would be your best option for your current setup, IMO. $170 to do your front brakes (assuming your rotors are in good shape) and your wheel bearings. I did my C4HD swap for $325 ($375 if you include the stainless lines that I had bought previously), but that didn't even include new pads. Tack on another $90 for new pads (I got used pads with the calipers I bought from someone). Plus I had to do a bit of modifying? Was it hard? No. Was it worth it to me? Hell yeah. But in your case, I think the stock brakes will work fine for you if you just get them in proper working condition.

 

acualy i haul *** every where i go.i used to do pizza delivery. hell i pass everyone in my
big *** astro van. so i like to be able to stop if need be.
and brake fluid is the last fluid i have to change, and
im going to get the new bearings cryoed.

 

Dude, if you knew 10x what you think you know, you'd still be an idiot.

 

well go **** your self little bitch.

 

and quit following me posting stupid bull****.go get your own thread ***.

 

uh.. that reall nice.. ...

i have a better sugestion...
how about change YOUR driving style and leave a litte more room between you and the other car. if you are "HAULING ***" everywhere, then YOU are the one people need to watch out for, people like YOU are the reason there are accidents and OTHERS need better brakes..

do you think you are cool for telling us you drive fast and used to be a pizza boy and pass people in a mini van?? you're playing a dangerous game with your life AND OTHER PEOPLE AROUND YOU, glad you dont live near me, or my family.

people like this is why i fear the safety of my wife and kids on the road.

good thing you dont have a V8...

 

thanx gramps now go drive 35 in a damn 65 .
just cause you putter around doesnt mean i have to.


and dont ever bitch when your pizza is cold .

 

If I ever post a stupid question, and then follow it up with even more stupid responses, you can feel free to jump in.

 

we all know your retarded , we get it, now go play with your blocks and dont forget your special helmut.

 

That would have come across better had you not misspelled "helmet."

 

wow your predictable. i left that in for you, just like a v8 ,shooting fish in a barrel.

 

So the 2nd grade level spelling, grammar, punctuation, and lack of capitalization is all actually an elaborate ploy?

(Apologies to any 2nd graders out there whom I offended by bracketing w/ this guy.)

 

Lock me please....

Ed

 

yes please lock this thread.

 

i bet your parents are proud

 

typical old man response. hey your blinkers still on.
and you bought a v8 to go slow?

 

I agree.