Hey all, i am in the process of putting a bbc in my car, and i need some much better brakes to be able to stop.

drag racing is my main focus, but this car will see 90% street use.

i was looking at this kit: BIG BRAKES, it the kit with all the options, drilled and slotted. how does this kit compare to ls1, c4, c5, c5 OEM brake upgrades?

My rear end is a moser 9" with new 11" drum brakes, so i won't change them quite yet.

As for the master cylinder, what bore size would you recommend? Wilwood had several different sizes on the suggested parts list. i will be the stock brake booster.

i am looking at high 9's in the 1/4, so i need brakes that car stop nice when i have a little fun on the highway

 

Which Wilwood kit are you talking about? If you are talking about any of the Forged Superlite (FSL) caliper based kits they are great but probably overkill unless you plan on tracking the car. Don't waste your time with the Dynalite based kits. If its just a street car plus drag, I would think LS1, 1LE, C4 HD, C5 would be fine.

 

I am talking about the dynalite kit for street use. I really want some GOOD brakes, but i don't really like used stuff.

Is there something wrong with the dynalite kit? is there a reliability issue?

I am upgrading my engine about 4X factory power, so i feel that overkill on the brakes is justified. money isn't the issue, i just want to know if they are good brakes. and there is a possibility that the car will do something else other than drag racing.

 

In my opinion the Dynalite is undersized for our cars. The pads are tiny. And they are kitted with tiny rotors. I would go with the FSL caliper and real rotors like in this kit:

http://www.flynbye.com/catalog/i18.html

I use a version of this kit, and it is track capable.

However if budget is truly not a concern and you want the ultimate brakes, I would go with a 6 piston Baer kit, or something completely custom.

 

well i did a little research and i think i won't even be able to do the FSL kit. since my main concern is drag racing, i was looking at the billet specialties streetlite wheels, which are 15" rims. 15" rims limit my brake choice. would the dynalite kit match the performance of a stock single piston caliper assembly?

my car will be less than the weight of what it was from the factory.

it seams that to have a proper drag race set up with wheels, you are limited to brakes, and if you want massive brakes, you are adding weight.

I don't want a dedicated Drag race brake kit because i drive it on the street 90% of the time, but i am open to other options with a 15" rim.

 

For a 15" wheel look into the C4 standard duty brakes. Uses a 12" x .81" vented rotor and dual piston PBR calipers. Fly-n-bye should be able to set you up with these. Or you can piece it together yourself.

Note that these are what I put on the '92.

RBob.

 

I guess I will look into those. Would parts be easier to get for c4 brakes over the wilwood?

 

Any auto parts store in the country vs. just Wilwood and distributors?

RBob.

 

i accutally looked into the aerospace components brake systems. i think i will go that route. For some reason i have a hard time using OEM stuff, i like aftermarket stuff too much.

 

The aerospace brakes are way undersided for a heavy 9sec BBC street car. Look at the kits I suggested earlier. 15in wheels are going to be tough. Eds 12.2in Wilwood kit might fit. Brakes are not the place to skimp on a 9sec street car.

 

hi ya ,
ive just built my own front caliper/disc conversion... im using vette c5 discs and mitsubishi evo 7 brembo 4pot calipers.. you have to cut off the existing caliper carrier. adapt a 10mm steel plate to bolt calipers to. cut original discs off hubs, slot c5 discs over hub. job done!!! theres a few minor bits to do along the way, but thats the main parts done..
(it looks like a 5th gen set up!!)
im running 19" bmw M6 rims on my z28, so they are a bit bigger than standard but with30 profile tyres the rolling radius is the same as 16" rims.... if i knew how to post pictures on the site i would.......help........ im updating the rear calipers soon with 4 pot handbake calipers, cos the handbrakes are crap!!!!

 

my car should weight less than it came from the factory, i am doing everything as far as weight reduction (staying street legal though).

the aerospace kits recommend a 3800# or lighter car, so i figured they would work alright...


which 12.2" wilwood kit are you taking about?

 

http://www.flynbye.com/catalog/i6.html

The Aerospace kit appears to use a private label Wilwood Dynalite caliper. It at least seems to use the same pad. Which in my opinion is undersized. Will it work for driving down to the local car show? Sure. Will it work for slowing you down at then end of the 1/4 mile? Sure. Is it enough for agressive driving on a track on a 9 second car? In my opinion, NO. I would be nervous with even aggressive street driving.

To compare.

Stock/Dynalite/FSL

Piston area 5/4.8/4.8 in^2
Pad area 8.7/6.36/8.2 in^2
Pad thickness 0.52/0.49/0.80 in

 

You can directly switch out the FDL caliper for the Dynapro 6-piston caliper. Its a bit smaller than the FSL, but much easier for us off the shelf guys to use.

http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/Cali...emno=120-10123

Stock/FSL/Dynapro

Piston area 5/4.8/5.06 in^2
Pad area 8.7/8.2/7.3 in^2
Pad thickness 0.52/0.49/0.49 in

Not a bad compliment to a $800 brake kit for $300 per caliper.

 

Your data for the FSL is wrong. Check my data. FSL pad thickness is 0.8 in.

That Dynapro pad is too small. You'd be replacing them constantly. Considering the FSL calipers are only $170 you'd be much better off than the Dynapro. Also, why sink even more money into a crippled brake kit when you can just buy one from Ed for much less money. That aerospace kit uses a measly 0.81" thick rotor. For a kit that has to fit inside a 15" (12" rotor) I would want a 1.25" thick rotor.

 

Ed?

 

Ed Miller at the following site:

http://www.flynbye.com/

JamesC

 

Ebmiller. Hes owner of Flynbye performance. He makes brake kits of all types for most GM cars. The real big issue with him though is turnaround time. Nobody knocks his quality. But, hes got it listed on his website as a 3-4 week backlog on brake kits and brake lines are on backorder as well. I've also read too many people on here as having money tied up for 2 months plus or longer before getting what they ordered.

If Areospace/Wilwood says its safe for street use, you can guarantee that it is or you can sue their pants off when your brakes fall apart. They wouldn't be making statements about applications and use unless they were sure that their product would meet those statements. Wilwood states that its kit is good for AX.

Everyone on here seems to think our cars are a heck of alot closer to 4000lbs empty than what the window sticker says. If what I've been reading from searching the forum here is correct, the window stickers put the vast majority of our cars between 3000lbs and 3400lbs from the factory without driver. Theres a tech article on the main page that shows that you can drop about 200-250lbs by simply replacing a few of the heavy cast iron engine items with aluminum parts.

But it seems to me that the prevailing wisdom is that the only good brake for our cars uses a 1.25" thick iron rotor & 1" thick pad and unless you have infinite patience for Ed or unlimited funds for a Baer setup (the Baer Pro-Plus kit is far superior to almost anything Ed makes, but its almost $5k for all four corners), not one person here seems to think Wilwoods are worth a damn. If the car weighs 3200lbs with driver, I don't see why the Wilwoods aren't any good.

87350IROC, I did misquote your data.

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ba...irebird-1.aspx

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ba...ebird-1-2.aspx

 

I'm in the same boat as 327 sleeper. I was also looking into the dynalite calipers, but I don't see how the data (stock/dynalite/(FSL?)) runs. How the the piston area of a single piston caliper bigger than a 4 piston wilwood? I didn't think a stock caliper was that big! But if you guys could point me in the right direction brake wise, I was looking for a 4 piston caliper set up or something thats got good stopping power and I'll just say money is a minor issue. Anything would be much appreciated!

 

We first must consider your requirements. How will you be using the car, street? drag racing? auto-x? track days? road racing?

Based on your needs you can figure out what system you need. Besides braking power, you biggest consideration is heat. For a drag car or 100% street driving the heat buildup is basically negligible, the stock brakes work fine. In fact drag racers use even smaller brakes than stock, they only need to stop once.

Now if you are planning on doing some auto-x, track days, or road racing, the braking system needs to be able to absorb and dissipate the heat of repeated hard braking. This is the beauty of big rotors, big pads, big calipers, and high temp fluid. All of these components work together to deal with the heat. The heat is created by the friction of the pad against the rotor. The rotor being iron absorbs most of the heat. The larger the rotor, basically the amount of metal used (diameter and thickness), the more heat the rotor can absorb. Heat is removed from the rotor by air flowing through the cooling vanes while spinning. Cooling air flow can be improved with cooling ducts. Quality rotors can operate at over 1000 degrees F.

The remaining heat is absorbed by the brake pad. The larger volume the pad, the more heat it can absorb. The pad compound is also designed to work in a particular heat range. Running a pad at a lower temp than recommended can chew up rotors and running a pad at a higher temp will cause the pads to become ineffective (brake fade).

more to come...

 

Heat from the pad is then absorbed by the caliper which is then absorbed by the brake fluid. The bigger the caliper the more heat it can store and dissipate into the air. The idea is to keep the caliper cool in order to keep the fluid cool. Quality fluid has a boiling point of 400 degrees or so. If you boil the fluid you lose a significant amount of braking power. The big old aluminum calipers are much better with heat dissipation than stock iron calipers.

So that explains the heat issues.

Bigger diameter rotors mean more braking torque with the same pedal travel. T=r*F where r is the radius of the rotor to the center of the pad and F is the clamping force of the caliper. So rotor diameter is just as important as clamping force.

Clamping force is a factor of pedal travel, master cylinder size, caliper piston area, pad area, and pad compound. The stock caliper has 1 huge piston that puts a lot of force on the center of the pad. The advantage of multi-piston calipers is they are able to apply the force more evenly on the pad. The stock caliper is a floating caliper (pistons only on one side of the rotor). This means the caliper actually shifts to center itself on the rotor. It takes roughly 100lbs of braking force for the slider to align. That is 100lbs that aren't helping braking.

 

So to compare the data again.

Stock
10.5" x 1" rotors
5 in^2 piston area
8.7 in^2 pad area
0.52" pad thickness
4.5 in^3 pad volume

Dynalite Kit
12.2" x 0.81" rotors
4.8 in^2 piston area
6.36 in^2 pad area
0.49" pad tickness
3.1 in^3 pad volume

FSL Kit
13.0" x 1.1" rotors
4.8 in^2 piston area
8.2 in^2 pad area
0.80" pad thickness
6.6 in^3 pad volume


The Dynalite kits has less than 1/2 the pad volume of the FSL and 50% less than stock. That means less heat capacity, higher pad temps, higher fluid temps, and much less pad life than even STOCK! Not to mention the caliper itself is tiny; less heat capacity.

Not to mention the rotors are tiny. 0.81" thick rotors have no place on big heavy thirdgens. Even the STOCK REAR rotors are 1.0" thick. That Wilwood rotor is only 8.8lbs not including the hat, that is not a lot of metal. Autozone lists the stock front rotors at 20lbs. Granted that includes the iron hat and bearing carriers, but still I bet the ring is more than 8.8lbs. These rotors have less heat capacity than stock. Ed's Wilwood FSL kit comes with either 13"x1.1" or 12.75"x1.25" rotors. Both with significantly more heat capacity than stock and much more than the dynalite kit. Not to mention the Ed's rotors are super common C4HD and C5 rotors, which means a huge selection and cheap prices. Trying pricing replacement rotors on that Dynalite kit. The rings are $137 each at Summit. Then you will have to assembly the rings to the hats and safety wire or pay someone to do it. Certainly more painful than a normal rotor swap.

For all of these reasons this kit really doesn't make any sense on a thirdgen. The dynalite calipers would be adequate for the rears though if combined with a proper sized rotor.

If you want a serious braking setup for not much money, order an FSL based kit from Ed. If you want drag racing brakes, get a drag racing kit that is even lighter weight than the dynalite kit.

Ed's 13" Wilwood FSL kit
http://www.flynbye.com/catalog/i18.html

 

Here is a picture showing the size difference between the FSL and Dynalite. Not my photo.

 

So to compare the data again.

Stock
10.5" x 1" rotors
5 in^2 piston area
8.7 in^2 pad area
0.52" pad thickness
4.5 in^3 pad volume

Dynalite Kit
12.2" x 0.81" rotors
4.8 in^2 piston area
6.36 in^2 pad area
0.49" pad tickness
3.1 in^3 pad volume

FSL Kit
13.0" x 1.1" rotors
4.8 in^2 piston area
8.2 in^2 pad area
0.80" pad thickness
6.6 in^3 pad volume


The Dynalite kits has less than 1/2 the pad volume of the FSL and 50% less than stock. That means less heat capacity, higher pad temps, higher fluid temps, and much less pad life than even STOCK! Not to mention the caliper itself is tiny; less heat capacity.

Not to mention the rotors are tiny. 0.81" thick rotors have no place on big heavy thirdgens. Even the STOCK REAR rotors are 1.0" thick. That Wilwood rotor is only 8.8lbs not including the hat, that is not a lot of metal. Autozone lists the stock front rotors at 20lbs. Granted that includes the iron hat and bearing carriers, but still I bet the ring is more than 8.8lbs. These rotors have less heat capacity than stock. Ed's Wilwood FSL kit comes with either 13"x1.1" or 12.75"x1.25" rotors. Both with significantly more heat capacity than stock and much more than the dynalite kit. Not to mention the Ed's rotors are super common C4HD and C5 rotors, which means a huge selection and cheap prices. Trying pricing replacement rotors on that Dynalite kit. The rings are $137 each at Summit. Then you will have to assembly the rings to the hats and safety wire or pay someone to do it. Certainly more painful than a normal rotor swap.

For all of these reasons this kit really doesn't make any sense on a thirdgen. The dynalite calipers would be adequate for the rears though if combined with a proper sized rotor.

If you want a serious braking setup for not much money, order an FSL based kit from Ed. If you want drag racing brakes, get a drag racing kit that is even lighter weight than the dynalite kit.

Ed's 13" Wilwood FSL kit
http://www.flynbye.com/catalog/i18.html

 

I have the aerospace front street brakes on the Camaro for the last couple of years and have had no problems and I am completely happy with them, they stop fantastic

 

I am planning on using the car for hard street driving, drag racing, adn occasionally like an autocross type event. I'm definitley not going to go dynalite now. I think the FSL is my best bet. or maybe the vette brakes? someone mentioned a c4 kit earlier... the easier accessable/ available parts would be nice

 

Looking at your profile I'm guessing you won't be auto crossing or road racing anytime soon. I'm sure the aerospace kit works well for drag or normal street driving.

 

A C4 HD based kit would be more than adequate for any of your requirements. If you ever plan to do a track day, I think the C4 HD kit would probably be ok with a track pad.

 

OK cool. I am gonna search this after i post it, but just for fun, does anybody have a link to a C4 HD kit? or does the (fly...) website have one?

 

http://www.flynbye.com/catalog/i17.html

 

Thanks! I was browsing the site a little bit and it sounds kinda dumb but the c4 calipers kinda look a little bit like uglier than the c5 and wilwoods etc. Are the C5's better? and I wish the FSL came in red...

 

I happen to think all sliding calipers look ugly (C4, C5, 1LE, LS1). I believe you can get the Wilwoods in Red. If not I know you can get them from TCE performance in almost any color you want.

http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/calipers/

 

Ok, I think I'm definitley going with the FSL's in red and some other wilwood calipers in the rear, but just to be 100% sure the FSL's ARE better than the BSL 6 piston calipers? cause as sweet as the FSL's look (and perform) I always wanted to say I have 6 piston calipers.... Has anyone tried the new SS 2010 Camaro Brakes from Ed?

 

The BSL6 caliper would probably work fine. It does have less piston area (4.8 vs 4.0 in^2) though.

The 5th gen SS brakes would work well to. However they require 18" wheels.

 

Ok, Thanks! I'll just go with the FSL. They seem like the best bang for your buck. I would definitley get the 5th gen brakes but until I scrape the money together for INTRO rims... haha

 

Sounds like a plan. Just be aware Ed seems to be doing to much business. You will likely have to wait a while if you order a kit from him.

 

Ok, thanks again with all the help!!!! Its much appreciated.