cy Z28

ok, so my daily driver is a late model Chevy truck. I've been thinking about slamming it, and to do so you use custom dropped spindles. I got to looking and they make dropped or raised spindles for EVERYTHING on the planet. So, why modify our existing spindles to accept all these parts when we could get one of these companies that does custom spindles for us. One with increased track width so that we could run fourth gen wheels with no spacers. BellTech makes dropped thirdgen spindles so I know they have an idea how to do it. What do you think? They could be several hundred dollars a pair, but look at all the wheel selections and increased braking potential we would have. The possibilites are endless.

I dunno, maybe i'm just daydreaming. But I do spend alot of time in the CAD lab and could come up with some dimensions. HMMMMMMMMM....

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Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

brharris27370

While your talking with them have them make the spindles accept 98+ 4th gen hubs, rotors and calipers so we can have great brakes too.


------------------
91 Camaro RS 5.0L Black Convertible 700R4
** Added so far **
*GM Wonderbar,Alston SFC's,spohn LCA's and Panhard rod
*Turbo City Inj Spacer
*Dual Snorkel Air Filter
*March Performance Pulleys
*GM 3.42 Gears with OEM Zexel POSI
*Edelbrock headers
*3" High Flow Cat
*3" Dynomax Exhaust
*Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump
***Future 330hp Vortec Crate with LT4 hotcam and 454 TBI

cy Z28

Sorry, did I forget that part....

That was actually the main point, it was getting late and I was brain farting.

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Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

Scott_92RS

That would be awsome man. Let us know how if you see any progress.

98_1LE

I tried to get something similar to that going recently with a speed shop owner I know. What I would like to see is a direct bolt on part with 1.5" drop, use LS1 front brakes and the correct offset for fourth gen wheels. Lighter than stock would be a bonus! I would by a set if someone would make them reasonably!

Cody, if you neeed Access to Catia 3D modeling software, let me know.

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87 Formula 350 13.94@96.67
98 Z28 1LE 13.15@107.59
1LE Owners Association

Scott_92RS

This does not seem like it would be very hard for a company like Belltech to do. I bet if everyone started calling them and asking them to make this custom spindle, they might start making it. I do think, however, that the 4th gen wheel offset should be an option. If anyone calls, let us know what they say!

cy Z28

Well, just a thought. Our fearless Moderator, Steve Spohn, is now a Belltech dealer. And although he's swamped with other things right now, he would have access to such things.

98_1le, do you come out to the GP-Arlington LS1.com GTG's?? I'll be in touch.

Ahh, just looked at your site... you're CB. Cool, I used to post on LS1 as tumbler. but now I use the same name for all.

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Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

[This message has been edited by cy Z28 (edited September 04, 2001).]

98_1LE

Guilty, I post as CB on ls1.com and chuck on camaroz28.com. I have been to ONE GP GTG with the Camaro, I need to get out more often. I met one thirdgen guy there, but honestly cannot remember the name... I remember tumbler posting on ls1.com

Steve, please consider making these spindles, if they are reasonably priced, I would send in a deposit now!

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87 Formula 350 13.94@96.67
98 Z28 1LE 13.15@107.59
1LE Owners Association

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Why fool around with 4th gen brakes? As long as it's going to be a custom application, let's consider C5 or Z06 brakes.

------------------

The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
Custom Thirdgen Subwoofer Enclosures
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah

Scott_92RS

I just called Belltech. The guy I talked to did not seem very bright. The guy I talked to said that they wouldnt be able to do it. As I said, he didnt seem very bright. Someone else should call em up and try to tak some sense out of him. The number I called was: 800.445.3767. I just asked to talk to someone about designing some custom spindles. Let us know if you find anything out!

soulbounder

Why fool around with C5 and ZO6 brakes, let's consider Brembo and Baer.

Scott_92RS

Because Brembo and Baer systems will cost ~3000. I am willing to bet you can get the front brakes from a wrecked LS1 for under a grand, and install them for ~200. I have read somewhere that the 4th gen brakes have
almost as much stopping power as the Baer system. If you want to go ahead and buy a Baer system, more power to ya, but its all about "Bang for tha Buck". We'll all have 85-90% of you stopping power, at less than half of what you paid.

Steve91Z28 L98

If anything like this ever was to happen, why not have the spindles made out of aluminum? The Vettes have had aluminum front and rear spindles for a while now.

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1991 Z28 - 350 TPI, T56, McLeod street clutch, LT4 pressure plate, Pro 5.0 shifter, ported plenum & runners, AFPR, Hooker shorty headers w/o AIR, Flowmaster muffler, homeade ram-air, SSM subframe connectors, Kenny Brown STB, Global West steering box brace, Steve Spohn adjustable torque arm and T56 crossmember

98_1LE

Actually you can buy the whole front brake setup from an LS1 car for ~$350 from most salvage yards. This is a popular upgrade for the '93-'97 cars. I would like to stay with the LS1 brakes so I can still use 16" wheels. If you step up to C5 brakes, 17" wheels are the minimum. So even if the spindles were $500, the whole conversion could be done for just over a grand with new bearings, ball joints and bushings. Thats about what thirdgen 1LE brakes cost, plus we could use the newer wheels etc. Swap in a fourthgen rear axle and you won't even need the expensive wheel spacers. Trust me when I say that the brakes on my '98 are WAY BETTER than the brakes on my '87. Those 12" rotors and 2 piston calipers really stop.

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87 Formula 350 13.94@96.67
98 Z28 1LE 13.15@107.59
1LE Owners Association

Scott_92RS

Would any good CNC machine shop be able to design a spindle out of aluminium? If I were to bring them a 3rd gen spindle and a 4th gen spindle, and tell them I want the holes and stud from the 4th gen spindle put onto a spindle that has the mounting locations of the 3rd gen spindle, do you think they could do it? I might be able to get a hook-up with a CNC machine shop, so let me know if I am thinking clearly.

84TransAm

Hey cy Z28, what is that midi on your webpage??? I'd like to use it on mine. Sorry this post has nothing useful to add

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1984 Trans Am, Goodwrench 350, TES Headers, Performer RPM Intake, Flowmaster 80 Series, Holley 600 cfm & vacuum advance, and T5 with short shift

cy Z28

Yeah, I'm Tumbler, that was me at the GTG a while back.

The MIDI is avalible from my buddy that runs that site. Did you look at the whole site?

check it all out and e-mail him at mustang_tbird@yahoo.com
or sign the guestbook, he'll really appreciate it.

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Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

Scott_92RS

I spoke with a guy today that would be able to make the caliper adapters. Because our brakes use an attached hub and rotor, we are limited to using a similar rotor unless the spindle is changed. Does anyone know of any larger rotor out there that is ~12 inches in diameter, and have a width similar to the LS1 brakes? The bolt battern doesnt matter, it can be changed.

cy Z28

Scott, got your mail... I thin that the best thing to use would be the C% rotor it's close in offset and has the right bolt pattern to boot. I got a set of knuckles off a 98car today the tierod mouning is broke off on one. Also talked to the parts manager about getting a set of machine drawings from GMSPO. And our suspension tech at the body shop is interested to help too. Lotta progress made today.

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Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

Scott_92RS

Awesome. I know the C5 brakes will be better, but they will probably be a lot more expensive, and much less plentiful in junkyards.

soulbounder

Scott_92RS, yea, I understand what you are saying. Bang for the buck is where it's at now-a-days. The only reason I'm going with Baer is because the car I'm building is my custom dream car. It will probably be a show car and weekend driver. I have a few questions as to this topic. Would these custom spindles allow for Baer Alcon calipers? (I know anything is do-able for the right price, lol)

MichaelRBrumm

Well, I'd buy a pair of these custom "98+ 4th gen brakes to 3rd gen" spindles, but I wouldn't want them offset for the 4th gen wheels... Sorry, but I like my rims.

Anyone have a clue as to the price (per pair)?

cy Z28

I've come to the conclusion that changing the offset is not the way to go. But to mate the C5 calipers and the rotors to a Wilwood hub. Hopefully creating a factory offset. I've been unsuccesful in getting shop drawings and plans. I think this is the way to go. It would be lighter than the stock one peice assy and wouldn't warp like the LS1 F-body brakes. The c5's dont warp like the Z/trans-am's do. And nifty red Z06 calipers would look really cool. I'm gonna get with LG motorsports on this. As they are relasing a 6 piston caliper and 13" rotor for the 98+f cars. It's price is only 1500. That's badass no matter what you drive.

Spindles arent the way to go. gonna be too costly to have them made up. Not enough of a market. But if we got a specialty supplier in on this like LG it would be more effective.

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Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

98_1LE

Do we know if the C5 brakes will fit in the stock thirdgen 16" wheels, or will this require a jump to 17" wheels?

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87 Formula 350 13.94@96.67
98 Z28 1LE 13.15@107.59
1LE Owners Association

cy Z28

chuck, this will most likley need a 17 wheel to clear

vinroc

any new headway on this just curious I have been sitting on the fence waiting for parts to become available for the upgrade to 3rd gen 1le but hey if you could get more stopping power for the same price why not

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it may be impressive to get a rice rocket to go 12's but why???

MichaelRBrumm

Custom 3rd gen knuckles, with LS1 caliper mounts, and spindle and hub, would be REALLY *****N AWESOME! I'd buy em!

More, 98+ (LS1) disc brake info in this thread:

https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/002567.html

Good luck with your C5 brakes guys. Hope it is worth all that money.

Road Tech

would you guys be interested in a fabricated spindle that would use a 4th gen hub, with a standard c-5 corvette rotor and either a wilwood or outlaw caliper? I have been looking at this kind of setup. dont have any cost but would anyone be interested?

...John
www.roadtechonline.com


------------------
Road Tech
Roadtechonline@yahoo
www.roadtechonline.com

Scott_92RS

I think it would be a good idea to make the spindles fit stock LS1 camaro brakes. The vette brakes could be put on with the use of a caliper bracket, which is already available. Also, if it is possible to make this magical spindle, could there be an option to make it a drop spindle? 1.5-2" would be perfect. I am defiantely interested if the price is right.

cy Z28

why do you guys want drop spindles for? Just buy some freakin springs and make this easy on the rest of us. No flame intended, but it's already complicated enough as is. Please don't make this any harder on those of us who are spending our time/ money on research for this project.

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Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

Road Tech

I think it would be a good idea to make the spindles fit stock LS1 camaro brakes. The vette brakes could be put on with the use of a caliper bracket, which is already available. Also, if it is possible to make this magical spindle, could there be an option to make it a drop spindle? 1.5-2" would be perfect. I am defiantely interested if the price is right.

... The reason for the vette rotor set up is= LS1 rotors are junk. vettes are bigger, 9 times out of 10,the guy wants larger rotors. after market calipers are for the same reason, why buy used stuff for a few dollars more you can have new billet calipers and a wide selection of pads. as for the dropped spindle. it seems most cars are lowered already, plus most lowered rear speings can only in a complete set. I am going to start gathering a few parts to see what it will take.
...John


------------------
Road Tech
Roadtechonline@yahoo
www.roadtechonline.com

MichaelRBrumm

LS1 and C5 rotors both mount on the hub the same way, so no need to differentiate between the two when talking about the knuckle. If you make it accept an LS1 rotor, it will accept a C5 rotor and vice versa.

The caliper mounting location is what is different. What this debate really is about is whether to:

A) design the knuckle to ONLY accept the C5 caliper mounting location

- or -

B) design the knuckle for a very standard caliper mounting location (like LS1), which then also allows C5, wilwood, outlaw, etc through easily obtainable caliper brackets.

For the life of me, I don't see the logic in making knuckles that are designed exclusively for only C5. I vote for design B.


[This message has been edited by MichaelRBrumm (edited September 19, 2001).]

Scott_92RS

I vote for design B also. The reason I say think about drop spindles is this: I have a 1.5" drop and its not enough. I dont want to go any lower with springs. I have heard that by using springs, you change your suspension geometry. By using a drop spindle, it would eliminate this change and everything would be OK.

Road Tech

Well after looking at the spindle last night for a while I have concluded that it would not be feasable to make a fabricated unit to use the 4th gen spindle , however we are going to work on a set up that will use a
c-5 rotor and outlaw caliper, I will post something when I have it completed.



------------------
Road Tech
Roadtechonline@yahoo
www.roadtechonline.com

cy Z28

sounds good to me.

cy Z28

That, and if we use a Rotor/Caliper/adapter/hub style conversion, those of you that want a drop spindle can get Belltech's and still have decent brakes.

Road Tech, what #pistons caliper are you looking at? four I would assume. anyway to see a 6 pison? it would be a lot less buyes but those of us that would like to have one, would really like to have one....hehehheheh

Thanks again for the help.

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Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

CPCamaro

The main reason I'm after a brake solution that can be applied to drop spindles is the front suspension geometry goes WAY bad if it's lowered too far via springs alone.

If there's gonna be a way to use the available Belltech spindles, and still get C5 brake parts, I'm cool with that.

Scott_92RS

Any new developments?

STUB25

If we going to do the LS1 or C-5 brakes why not just consider a straight front suspension conversion from a LS1 I know it can be done if you are skilled enough in the fabrication department. You are just going to have to try and find all of the parts to do so. I have a 81 slammed about 3" off the ground in the front w/out drop spindels and about 4" in back with a axle under and blocks. It's riding on 17x9 primax wheels all around and 255/45/R17 up front and 275/40/R17 out back. I am trying to find a glass shop to make me some custom windows for a attempt a choptop.

------------------
89 RS w/ 66,000 miles
305 TBI (converting to TPI )
Current mods: open air element and 3" SLp 2OTL cat back w/ no cat.
Future mods:
180cc AFR heads
Fully Ported TPI
xtreme enegy compcam .488/.495 lift and 218/228 dura @.500
9 bolt posi w/ 342 gears and disc
hotchkis rear suspension kit and panard bar
Riding on blk GTA wheels 265/45/R16 out back and 245/40/R16 up front

Scott_92RS

All we want is the brakes here man, if you want to go nuts and try that swap, go ahead It would be different, but it isnt really necessary. 4th gens have shocks up front where we have struts, they have upper/lower balljoints, completely different steering system. It would take forever to swap all that junk, and you would see minimal gains, if any. Modding the stock setup with all aftermarket parts (Bilsteen, Moog, Guldstrand, Energy suspension...) would be much cheaper, easier, and you would probably see a bigger improvement than going with a stock 4th gen system.

Road Tech

I have a number of parts on the way for a customers project car. we have decided to go with a modified stock rotor,slotted /crossdrilled 13" rotors with a Outlaw 4000 caliper. I wont be able to get to it for a few more weeks , but as soon as it is done i will post some pics.

...John

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Road Tech
Roadtechonline@yahoo
www.roadtechonline.com

Dewey316

Thanks for all the hard work to everyone here.

i can't wait to see how all of this works out. i sooo need some better stoping power, and am very interested in this conversion.

Steve91Z28 L98

Any new info on this?

Road Tech

well the customer has finally deided to go with the wilwood superlite 6 billet caliper. I have received to rotors if anyone wants to se some pics e-mail me and I can send them to you.

roadtechonline@yahoo.com

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Road Tech
Roadtechonline@yahoo
www.roadtechonline.com

cy Z28

Actually, you would lose handling capability. Thirdgens handle better than 4th gen cars do. That, and making the wider track fit in out wheelwells would be insanely hard. Just buy all the aftermarket goodies and learn how to drive.


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Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

Road Tech

How do you add pictures to you post?

Thanks

------------------
Road Tech
Roadtechonline@yahoo
www.roadtechonline.com

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Hey guys...take a look at the link in my C5 brake post.

I think that's along this line..

[This message has been edited by ebmiller88 (edited November 25, 2001).]

blown87gta

Might try here...
http://www.applink.net/~thartman/c5_rotor.htm

T.

Road Tech

Here is a link for the brake rotors for the conversion.....

http://www.applink.net/~thartman/c5_rotor.htm


John
www.roadtechonline.com

blown87gta

This link might help;
http://www.applink.net/~thartman/c5_rotor.htm