Gumby

I do keep forgetting I don't have brakes

Been that way for over 3 years but long as you down shift you never notice
[and its fun anyways making the pipes crackly going into 2nd at a stop]



All wheel hardware is new front and rear, lines, fluid, master cylinder, brake boosted tested/checked.


all that is left is the prop valve but dunno, brakes are hard like manual but not as hard as say brakes with the engine off. I got power, but its not transfering to the pads right. Gotta lean on it still though.

Dunno if a prop valve could do that???

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

bad booster?

Gumby

Isn't there only one way for a booster to go bad?

It leaks air and doesn't work.

Cause it don't do that, swapped in a spare that was blown and leaking and didn't work at all, rock hard pedal.


Can a booster half work?

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

im not sure but from what you posted it sounded like the booster to me, but it wait for a few others to chime in

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

asked my buddy and he said its your valve.

Gumby

more info ^

Gumby

????

What valve?

only one on the line is to hold vacuum once the engine is off, it would make no difference when running, and you don't really even need it. cept for that 1-2 brake pumps you get when the engine is off........

Gumby

Just went out and check, cars been off for about 5 hrs, still had a pump n a half left in the pedal before the stored vacuum ran out and the pedal goes rock hard.

Gumby

sad to report there was no change in operation with a known good working prop valve. spent $100 and ordered a new booster, only part not changed.

fingers cross I can stop with ease tomorrow afternoon.

autozone was the best deal, only $10 for the core.
$93.99

$111 with tax

Gumby

Well I have officialy changed every part, bleed near a full gallon through and I still have no brakes.

like having manual brakes where you gotta lean on it hard to stop quick.

Gumby

Lets time line run this down again.

One day my brakes went to shiet, hard pedal with no stopping power unless I lean on them hard. [I do member the rear locking up once]

Folks suggested it was the MC and the fluid in it was nasty.

So while changing the MC,
I warrantee and exchanged my calipers and brake pads as I could.

I also put on a new set of rotors. [drilled and slotted]

No change in operation.

Other suggestion that the nasty fluid in old MC messed up the prop valve.

Prop valve has been changed with no change in brakes.

Last part left was the brake booster, changed it today and no change.

Changed rubber lines today also just incase I had a funny internal blockage that can happen with them.

Still no change.

Have run near a whole gallon of fluid through no problem bleeding them and no change.


Every part of the brake system is "new" all except hard lines, which I have no clue how they could be the problem.


Tossing money and parts at it has gone no where, now what???

0pyders

iTrader: (3)

Does your brake light come on?

Are you sure the piston in the caliper isn't stuck?

chevyracingrox

actually i ran into a problem before where one metal line was plugged. so if you're stumped it could be worth looking at.

92 Camaro

iTrader: (1)

jack the rear end up (with stands)and run the car. I say get it to a decent speed where you know it's hard. then have someone stomp on the brakes and observe what happened to the rear wheels. if they stop good, then you know it's something in the front.

dead sailor

Take the vacuum line off of the booster running to the manifold and see if it is clogged or partially clogged. Sometimes carbon builds up inside of it

Gumby

A new thought, pretty sure when I got a new MC, they made me reused my old resivor / it didn't come with one. Maybe its fouled in some way.

dead sailor

Have you tried cleaning out the vacuum line? Im almost Positive that's your problem.

dead sailor

You can just take the line off of the booster and spray carb cleaner through it while the cars running to clean it out.

Gumby

of course the booster line is clear, first thing to check. It will suck your finger off when running.

dead sailor

Ok just making sure. Have you tried putting the car up on a lift or jackstands and tried to turn the wheels with someone applying pressure to the brakes?
And I know this sounds ridiculous but does the brake pedal swing freely? I'm sure you would have noticed that changing the booster though.

Banditz

Are you running headers? i just had to replace part of the hard line last week. I had installed hooker Block hugger's and didnt realize at that point they were directly over the engine crossmember. Since there was no way at all to use them I pulled them off. upon doing so i saw on the driver's side I had crimped the frigging brake line with the header. The one along the cross member. Doing so made my light come on, as well as the brakes SUCK! LOL

Gumby

Nope just a factory 2.8 but anything is possiable at this point, ill check lines for crush.

I got no light and can bleed em fine but...........

Banditz

Yeah, I was able to bleed mine too! LOL But form an extra spot as well.

Just a thought also, you say everything is new BUT are you including the rear wheel cyclinder's in that comment as well? When mine went out the light came on..so that part is different, BUT the pedal was hard as hell to push and if I really stood on it the rear's would lock up like what your stating happened to you. If you have not checked, all ya gotta do is pull teh drum off and have someone push the brakes with it running OR off..if they move the shoe's out then they come back in, well...that would mean they work. mine had slipped off one side of the shoe.. IF that's it then be prepared to get ripped at the parts store.. they are high dollar man. Rebuild kit is like a whopping $3 each!!! And a new one entirely is like $8!! How they epect someone to be able to pay that! LOL BTW, just rebuild...MUCH easier than and almost as fast as swapping new. even an caveman could do it.

Banditz

BTW, found one of your Hatch's on ebay for $800! IF i had found a dang off topic bullcrap area i would have pasted it..this forum needs a chat room type thread BADLY..It would keep the threads cleaner..

Gumby

Id say kinda worth it but id never have one if I didn't find mine for $150 on craigs list

Sojer

Did u change the cam like put a big one in that can cause a vac I didn't read the whole post so I don't kno if this covered

Gumby

nope its all stock, gonna look for a crushed or pinched hard line and probably replace both hard lines as another let see new part.

It so much better on gas then my V8 car but driving with crappy brakes sucks.

Gumby

And its that time of year again, I replace the two front hard lines and left front rubber line today, [right was done last year]

there is now nothing left in the brake system that hasen't been replaced.

If I still don't have brakes I get to replace parts already replaced, YEAAAAA

IROCtheRoad

Bummer! Maybe your new MC you got is bad too. Just a thought.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Im sure you've got this right, but since you're at a loss and you didn't explicitly mention it...

Make sure the gasket/liner on the bottom of the master cylinder lid isn't partially kinked/missing/leaking/etc. Its that soft rubber piece that's sometimes kind of finnicky to get back on there properly. I know a few times I've put it in and it didnt end up sealing right, and the brakes were awful, just like what you're describing. Went back and pulled off the lid and I could see right away it was all fubar'd. Not sure it's even supposed to separate from the lid, but mine is two separate pieces at this point and I have to be careful as I seal the lid in place that the liner stays on there properly.

Gumby

and we still have no brakes, only thing that happens, when in my stone drive way, the rears will lock up and thats it.

resop27

iTrader: (8)

I have this same problem the pedal goes to the floor and barely stops the car. I have all new brakes from rebuilt ls1 calipers to stainless hard lines and stainless flex lines. New mc, proportioning valve from ed miller (rebuilt)........ I'm lost all the brakes bleed clean straight fluid, still the pedal just goes to the floor and barely stops the car.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

So you definitely have this piece... and it's not damaged?

http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-42079-M.../dp/B0002JMSJ0

Gumby

comes with a new mastercylinder,

ive ended up back at step one, replacing the first parts I replaced long ago.
new calipers and mastercylinder.

not much better if any, pulls to the left a little still though all line hard and rubber and everything, everything, everything is new.

has to be the quality of parts not being as good as original.

might try to bleed mastercylinder again, though I bench bleed it to death till my arm was sore tired. that is if I can get the rear high enough to make it level to do it installed.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I couldn't get the master cylinder bench bled, I just gravity bled the whole system, including the prop valve. Im not gonna say the brakes are perfect, Im not positive they are completely bled, but I will say I CAN lock up the brakes...

Gumby

I only gravity bleed, best way to do it.
never good to rush it.

I do it till I get no air bubbles, then continue it till I fill up a 16oz dixie cup for each wheel to make sure its flushed.

TomP

Good call on changing the master cyl. I fought brakes for a long time on my rear disc swap. The master cylinder I bought was bad out-of-the-box and I could never bleed the system! I went thru gallons of fluid, always getting air & soft pedal, until I changed the m/c. To get the final pedal I bought a pressure bleeder, www.brakebleeder.com , works awesome (have used it on other cars since).

So my guess is you had a bad master cyl that pushed air thru everything; pressure bleed should fix it...

Gumby

I am more and more confident about my brakes and I have to say the best part of all was a set of $10 copper metallic pads from autozone. The super fancy $70 lifetime warranty ones I had sucked, no bite at all and showed very little wear, new pads went in with little work. Forget the fancy pads people.

Gumby

I probably spent $3-400 to much chaning every part under the sun when $10 brake pads is all I needed.

a good example of not putting all your faith in new parts,
those fancy pads were the problem all along.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

Thank you for posting the final outcome so that we can all possibly learn from it. I had been following this thread from the beginning but never posted before as I had no relevant ideas to try. I had never thought of that but I have heard of it before. If the pad is to hard it will require more pressure to work properly. However most pads are not overly hard.

Gumby

I dunno, I had bought some fancy $70 lifetime warranty pads AZ stopped carrying, so they gave me some other ones of the same quality. But they do not bite until your hard on the pedal. It really felt like I had no brakes, like when the pads wear down to nothing metal to metal stopping.

And all new everything else made no changes, but changing pads fixed everything.

the simplest answer is always right.[contact was on last night]

IROCtheRoad

An epic movie!