Has anyone done the swap to the 5th gen SS Brembo setup? I just purchased fronts and rears and am going to get them on ASAP, but wanted to see if anyone has already done it? Also for the rears, anyone know someone who makes the brackets for that? I am running a 4th gen disc brake rear now...

 

Perdoch Brakes makes a 5th gen Brembo conversion.

Here is a pic of them behind CTW Motorsports wheels:

 

Yes it has been done .. Fronts need Brackets and 1LE hub "not the standard one" .. rears you will need a bracket and deal with the parking brake situation as it uses a drum style ..but its pretty straight forward like any other brake swap .. But well worth it .. the 4 piston wilwoods kinda look more period correct .. but you wont be disappointed lol

What wheels you plan to run will need at least 18" but not all 18" wheels will have clearance and for 17" CTW wheels will do the job as you can see in the pic


Does rear brembo clear 17" CTW Wheels IIRC rear rotors are slightly larger

 

I've never fitted them with the rear Camaro SS brakes. From the specs i can find online, the rear brakes are about 10mm larger than the fronts, which may not be a problem if the caliper is the same one (in terms of clearance and size).

Here is a pic of the 14" SS rotors with the 6 piston CTS-V calipers. Might actually work after all...

 

This reminds me I still have a CTW wheel here. Ooops. I can check fitment and take some pictures.

 

Indeed. Also the 5th gen setup is quite a bit more heavy. It really depends how much you are going for the "look".

 

How does the pad compare too tge 4 piston as into height etc any overhang with 14" rotor

I agree They are a bit heavier even compared to stock setup ..I dont have the numbers tho

but I think its worth the extra weight for the extra brakes



if I was making a all out track car and weight was a concern I think wilwoods are more than enough and is s lighter setup

 

I want to point out that without ABS to really hold back lockup, anything above a 4 piston 13" system is never going to really be used (for all its worth) due to not enough front tire to decelerate the car with. You really need to put a 295 or larger tire on the front to really get braking up to par.

This is the main reason why 100ft from 60 to 0 is still very hard to beat...

 

Great point. Too much clamping without ABS = lock-up / skidding... No Bueno

 

Very True ..

I was running 18x10 all around with 285 with room for 295 or more look like I had room ..since then with my new setup I've down sized up front too 9.5 / 275 front 10.5 / 285 rear .not by choice thats what I traded for ...after I get things situated engine wise I will go 10.5 up front either widening or buy new fronts

With 295s atleast all around when I get new tires as I got used 285s to test fitment with last wheel setup

 

i think with the right bias set up, and consistant pedal feel, the 6 pistons are good. yes the 4 pistons are enough i sure... but there is nothing wrong with two more... just dont slam on them... you should not have to anyway as long as you pay attention to who and what is around you on the road... and on a track im sure the 4 pistons do very well... but even the big boy racecars run 6 pots and they dont use abs either...

 

its all about how you set them up

 

Track wise 6 piston are more logical due to heat being the enemy and it will better handle the constant heat cycles that occur

4 piston are a happy medium for street/track car duty

street wise 6 piston are way over kill and will never see the type of heat that you would see on the track and depending on street tires the tire wont beable to handle the braking forces unless your going very sticky tires then you will have tire that wont last long on the street ..hence why 87350IROC prefer 6 piston vs 4 piston as 6 piston works better on the track

With ABS you would take full advantage of brakes with any tire grip level or surface of course more tire equals better braking but ABS can make up for lack of balance even tho you still wont max out full potential

with non ABS you would need good tires to match the massive braking force and that a not balance setup either tires would be overwelmed and will not take full advantage of braking power

Maybe the smarter guys can chime in with the big words and talk but im a idiot that cant spell lol..im no engineer ..but I can save your life if theres any trauma ..just saying lol

 

well i have been back and forth on the 4 and 6 pot calipers... the car will be a weekend cruiser for the street, but will see lots of canyon carving to the beach and track time... i will be running the silver state classic at-least once, ect... what do you think i should choose....?

 

Heat capacity is mostly a problem for the rotors and pads, although if those have enough capacity, it is possible to heat the calipers enough to boil the fluid. That said, a larger thicker rotor is the key to managing heat - along with brake ducting for extra cooling. John can elaborate further...

Keep in mind that extra pistons really help with equalizing the brake pad force on the rotors - 6 may be better than 4 - but not necessarily 50% better like the math may suggest. Another John question...

This has been talked about in other places before, but there seems to be an arms race when it comes to brakes - both in number of caliper pistons and also rotor diameter. Take a look at any high end Benz, BMW, or Lambo and look at the brake eye candy. Problem is that that is so much braking force for any car (worst on rear engine cars with small front tires) that super sophisticated ABS systems are necessary to make everything work well. ABS was developed for cars for slippery conditions, including turning under heavy braking to avoid lockups.

Think of it this way - if you were to run a 295-35-18 tire over a set of 6 piston C6 Z06 brakes, it would outstop a similar car with the same exact tires in 245-40-18 size every single time, ABS or not. The steady state and maximum friction between the wheels and the ground increases with tire width in most conditions. I have used the formula of an increase in grip (both lateral and braking) of 20 to 60% of the increase in tire width (and diameter) for two given sets of tires - I use 40% as my baseline. As an example, you added 20% more tire width going to a 295 from a 245 - time 40% = 8% increase in grip. 8% might not seem like much, but it may push a .90g car to .97g and a 120ft from 60mph to 111ft with no other changes.

I laugh when I see a Lambo with 15" ceramic brakes under a 235 width front tire - must be all about the look.

 

i agree with you paul

That is what i was refering to as the larger pad and rotor would manage heat better than smaller pad and small rotor .. and that the 2 extra pistons would kinda reduce the surface area on for the specific caliper which reduces heat i would assume .. and larger calipers would dissipate heat a little better ..but Rotor and Pad are the leading cause of heat

so i imagine a 6 piston would beable to manage heat better than a 4 piston setup ..its probably not a huge difference but every little bit helps in a track setting .. atleast thats my thought... but huge difference with a stock 1 piston setup

Braking is a skill that is learned and should be learned with out ABS for those reasons.. hence why the newer sports car make it easy and confident that you can drive a car fast when actualy electronics make up for a bad driver .. turn them off and let the driver drive and see if he can manage the same car

 

i would pay, to watch that hahaha put a guy in a zl1 and see how fast he is... then turn all the crazy computers off .... hahahahahahaha

you can actualy watch a video of the zl1 vs the red devil on you tube... computer vs raw car... very cool video

 

I hope I have answered everything.

In a general sense, today's modern calipers (2,4,6 piston) all have smaller piston areas than the OEM calipers. This would trend towards the pedal being harder to push but with a shorter pedal travel. On the other hand the larger rotors will make pedal effort lower while lowering pedal travel. It is not like you are going to install modern big brakes and have to worry locking up the brakes every time you touch them. Driven a modern car lately? When was the last time you engaged ABS on a dry road? It really doesn't happen unless you are pushing things.

4 vs 6 piston. Of course piston area depends on the piston sizes. In general the piston area of 6 piston calipers is similar to that of 4 piston calipers. So for the same rotor, the two calipers will have similar pedal effort and pedal travel. So what are the advantages. Well as pointed out, the six piston caliper typically pushes more evenly on the back of the pad. This CAN mean more even pad wear. I say CAN because it depends on many factors. 4 piston calipers (especially with differential bores) are no slouch either. Another theoretical advantage of 6 piston calipers is the pistons are smaller so they can be aligned closer to the edge of the rotor, so the pad can be less tall. The shorter pad has a larger effective radius than a taller pad. In other words, the average pad radius is greater. This produces more torque for the same pedal pressure, just like using a larger rotor. As well, typically you would design a 6 piston caliper to be longer than the 4 piston. This means a bigger pad.

Again these are all generalizations. Example Wilwood. They make the 4 piston FSL, but also make a six piston brother the SL6. The caliper bodies are virtually identicle, the pad is the same, so you really don't reap many of the benefits of using a 6 piston. In this case the 6 piston is more about marketing, IMO. This is why I don't use the 6 pistons Wilwoods in my kits, they are over double the price for negligible benefit.

Another example. Camaro SS / gen I CTS-V 4 piston Brembo vs Camaro ZL1 / gen II CTS-V 6 piston Brembo. The 6 piston uses a much larger caliper body with a much larger (longer) pad. Pad height is the same. It natively also uses the larger rotor. I see more advantage here to the Brembo 6 vs 4 piston than the Wilwood case.

So I would say that the suitability of 1 vs 2 vs 4 vs piston calipers is highly dependent on many factors. I would never use piston count alone to make a recommendation.

Here is a chart that many help figure out the pedal effort and travel compared to stock. Right click - view image for larger.

 

another factor is your master cylinder... how much fluid is being pushed ... a stock master cylinder will have a difrent stroke and difrent pedal feel than if you put in a z06 cylinder or the willwood cylinder...

 

The Wilwood comes in many sizes. I am sure you can get a Wilwood the same size as stock or very very close. Don't know the Z06 off hand so I won't comment.

 

C5/6 MCs are a 1" bore

 

what is the stock bore?

 

Question about the wilwoods... Site says fsl fits a 12" rotor max(IIRC) is it safe to run with a 14 like your kit?

 

I am not sure where you are getting your information. The classic FSL calipers have a max rotor diameter of 13" and the narrow versions are 14". Also, it is not a matter a safety, but rather a matter or matching the curvature of the caliper to the curvature of the rotor. If you try to use a classic FSL caliper on a 14" rotor you will find that the caliper body will contact the rotor before the pads get all the way down to the friction surface. In other words, the caliper will not slide onto the rotor far enough.

Finally, I don't offer a 14" kit with FSL calipers, perhaps you have me confused with someone else? My kit is 13".

 

http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/Cali...ite%20Internal


My bad I was looking at these.
I thought you had a kit pairing the 5th gen rotor with those calipers. I got it confused with the c4hd

Maybe that's an option?

 

Those are the ones I'm talking about. Right in your link it says make rotor diameter 13.06".

I consider the FSL based kit to be a performance oriented kit. For this application, a 13" rotor is all you need. That is what I use.

14" and up kits are just excess weight

John

 

Just curious. Why reccomend the c4 rotor over others? From what I see I really like your kits. Plan on website soon?

 

Its not the C4HD that I specifically think is ideal. What I like about the C4HD for performance applications is that in my opinion it is a right sized rotor for a 3rd gen and rotors are cheap. For looks yes, a 14"+ is better but at extra weight and moment of inertia (MOI). MOI is what kills performance. Additionally the C4HD has a large rotor offset so it is easy on wheel fitment. Parts availability is also good.

If you have 500+ whp, plan on hitting the road course, and are an aggressive track driver, I would recommend more rotor.

I don't plan on a website anytime soon. I don't make a living off of brakes. And I have enough customers at my current pace to keep me busy. If you have any questions, I am always available to talk here, on PM, Email or most quickly by phone. My point is merely that I am not trying to go mainstream.

John

 

I don't suppose the wilwoods fit under irocs do they?

I know(been told) the c4hd(with c4 caliper)fits but what about wilwood?

 

Yes, it fits and fills the wheel quite well.

 

Very nice! Is that your personal car?

 

Yes, that is a shot of my car about 2 years ago. I don't want to derail this thread though. So out of respect for the OP lets keep this discussion going on a new thread or through PMs.

John

 

Holy **** that IROC looks good! What springs?

 

It has weight jacks with SSS springs.

 

I am doing the 2013 SS brake upgrade on the front of my 92 RS and the kit uses modified stock spindles with new hubs and brackets. I bought the kit that came with upgraded lines and rotors. They didn't have red calipers like I wanted so I found a set on fleabay for cheap. I'm deployed but the shop I tinker at on my R&R's is doing the instal and it should be done next week. Got my kit from www.bigbrakeupgrade.com Great quality and outstanding customer service!

 

Hey that was fun to watch.